Does anyone else not like Erebus?

[Crimson Hawk]

If there's a baddie to dislikes then Abaddon fills that for me. He's like the Grimlock of the Heresy - 'Me Abaddon say SMASH!' He's a caricature meat head villain.

 

I can rebuild him. I have the technology.

But can you return his arms, eh? :P

[Greyall]

That he's got so many haters (among whom I'm included) is proof enough that Erebus is a great character. Plus, I don't really see him as the mustache-twirling kind, he's actually a ver down-to-earth, serious as hell (literally?) guy. Plus the guy holds his own against Lucius.

 

Erebus' one of those talented, focused, hard-working over-achievers...who just happened to have chosen four monstrosities as his masters...

 

And if a Primarch can't hold his ego enough to at least refrain from betraying/trying to murder his father when so many billions of common men live and die in the latter's service, then that's pretty conclusive as to how flawed the twenty brats are.

 

PS: On Abaddon, I don't see how he's a bad villain. At least not badly fleshed-out. One may dislike bullies, but when you give one of them weapons and an army, he behaves exactly as Abaddon does, like a conqueror/blood knight. Remember, "If brute force isn't the solution, you're not using enough of it".

 

Also, getting through Cadia is hard...conquering the Imperium is even harder.

[b1soul]

That he's got so many haters (among whom I'm included) is proof enough that Erebus is a great character. Plus, I don't really see him as the mustache-twirling kind, he's actually a ver down-to-earth, serious as hell (literally?) guy. Plus the guy holds his own against Lucius.

Could you describe the encounter please

[Hyaenidae]

Seconded. I'd love to hear about this.

[dustermaker]

I'm sure there is a lot we will end up learning about Erebus and the rest of the main Chaos players in the future books that come out. I have a feeling he will become a larger player in the future of 40k fluff.

[Mantras]

Without my books at hand, it is in the sparring cages, really different styles but it is said that Erebus is actually pretty badass with his Mace

[Leonaides]

Just to let you know that things dont go entirely according to Erebus' plans in 'Fear to Tread' -

people start making their own decisions and latering what his plan was and he gets 'reminded' of his place

...

 

(got my copy last weekend at nottingham)

[Kizzdougs]

That he's got so many haters (among whom I'm included) is proof enough that Erebus is a great character. Plus, I don't really see him as the mustache-twirling kind, he's actually a ver down-to-earth, serious as hell (literally?) guy. Plus the guy holds his own against Lucius.

Could you describe the encounter please

 

He was beaten in a duel, in the Luna Wolf training cages, by Lucius. It was mentioned that although he was beaten, Erebus put up a better fight than other contestants. I think (seem to remember) Loken recognised that both Erebus and Lucius out classed the LW captains in personal combat.

 

Its been years since i read the story, so this is just what i remember :sweat:

[Irabrai]

Just to let you know that things dont go entirely according to Erebus' plans in 'Fear to Tread' -

people start making their own decisions and latering what his plan was and he gets 'reminded' of his place

...

 

(got my copy last weekend at nottingham)

 

Thats kind of a given...The Heresy fails.

 

Theres bits of Erebus that are quite good, but others bad. I dont mind him that much, as others have said; He just nudged Horus to the door, Horus decided to go through it.

[Haranin]

He is an excellent bad guy. That he is so unlikable is a point of good writing.

[A D-B]

He is an excellent bad guy. That he is so unlikable is a point of good writing.

 

Not always. How he's written sometimes is exactly what I don't like about him, and I think he feels less credible as an antagonist because of it.

[malika666]

There is one thing I don't fully get about Erebus. Like Kor Phaeron he has been around with Lorgar from the early days before Primarch was reunited with the Emperor.

 

Now... Kor Phaeron couldn't become a full Astartes because he was too old, buy why didn't Erebus suffer from the same problem? I can't imagine that he was still a child when the Emperor came to Colchis...right?

[Tyros]

Some writers manage to pull him of others don't. In "Deliverence Lost" Gav fails. He pretty much stands screaming at an primarch. Way to full of himself. Others succed when they go with the "serpent on his shoulder-concept". Erebus is only spreading the word and will of the four gods and his father, he whispers in the ears of others to see the way he want them to see, but he most defenely not think he can command, he is a servant of his father and the four gods his father are serving.

 

But he is an warrior of great skill and don't take ^_^ from anyone, such as Loken.

[Ju'kosian]

There is one thing I don't fully get about Erebus. Like Kor Phaeron he has been around with Lorgar from the early days before Primarch was reunited with the Emperor.

 

Now... Kor Phaeron couldn't become a full Astartes because he was too old, buy why didn't Erebus suffer from the same problem? I can't imagine that he was still a child when the Emperor came to Colchis...right?

 

As kor Phaeron was kinda a father to lorgar, I think maybe Erebus was something like a brother.. So age wise, he would still have been younger then Kor.

 

... I don't like Erebus too much too in the Heresy, but I don't think he'll get killed.. he has already had his throat slashed once (at Davin) and he is still alive in the 41st millenium (Dark apostle series)

[malika666]

But still, that would still mean that Erebus would have to be a child during the time Lorgar was fighting on Colchis. I imagined Erebus to be slightly older that Lorgar, I mean not as old as Kor Phaeron, but still a bit older if we follow the fluff. Which would seem a bit odd...or maybe I'm looking too much into it.

[Greyall]

I was speaking in absolutes when I said that Erebus having so many haters was proof enough that he was well fleshed out...I should've said it was an indication.

 

 

Aye, Erebus gets beaten, but after - if memory serves - a 16 minute-bout with a uber swordsman.

[Ju'kosian]

But still, that would still mean that Erebus would have to be a child during the time Lorgar was fighting on Colchis. I imagined Erebus to be slightly older that Lorgar, I mean not as old as Kor Phaeron, but still a bit older if we follow the fluff. Which would seem a bit odd...or maybe I'm looking too much into it.

 

Well off course, since Kor is a 'father' for Lorgar, it depends on what age he became a father.

Erebus and Lorgar could be brothers ( so few years difference), age difference between a son and father is higher then a few years.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I think there were space wolves who were supposedly to old for becoming astartes but tried anyway (think it was the boys from Russ his warband on fenris) most of them died but some made it.

 

So maybe Erebus just was a better fit than Kor.

[Coryphaus 101]

In some ways I like Erebus, in other ways I don't. I like him for manipulating pretty much everyone to do what he wants them to do and, along with Kor Phaeron, he engineered the Heresy. But he stole Kor Phaeron's spotlight and that is unacceptable.

 

@Ju'kosian: The Wolf Brothers? They were Russ' 'reavers and sword-brothers' and hundreds of them tried to become Space Marines but only 40 or so survived. I think it more likely that although Erebus wasn't a child, he wasn't very old either. Probably about 18-20.

[Ju'kosian]

In some ways I like Erebus, in other ways I don't. I like him for manipulating pretty much everyone to do what he wants them to do and, along with Kor Phaeron, he engineered the Heresy. But he stole Kor Phaeron's spotlight and that is unacceptable.

 

@Ju'kosian: The Wolf Brothers? They were Russ' 'reavers and sword-brothers' and hundreds of them tried to become Space Marines but only 40 or so survived. I think it more likely that although Erebus wasn't a child, he wasn't very old either. Probably about 18-20.

yep I think it's those guys.

[Bulwyf]

But still, that would still mean that Erebus would have to be a child during the time Lorgar was fighting on Colchis. I imagined Erebus to be slightly older that Lorgar, I mean not as old as Kor Phaeron, but still a bit older if we follow the fluff. Which would seem a bit odd...or maybe I'm looking too much into it.

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but didn't one of the index astartes books state that while it was possible to implant a male beyond the puberty years the success rate was so low it wasn't considered worth the risk of gene seed? I can easily imagine that when Lorgar was around the gene seed was much readily available that he insisted on those closest to him to be made into Astartes and in Erebus's individual case it would appear the implants were a success. Perhaps the Ruinous Four had a hand in making certain the implants were successful?

[The Dark Pantheon]

Do we know approximately how old Lorgar actually was by the time he was found by the Emperor? It's possible that Erebus was about the same age as Lorgar - remember that the Primarchs matured and grew rapidly. Lorgar would have been the equivalent to a young adult by the age of six or seven, while Erebus may have still been a younger boy who Lorgar maintained a special relationship with after the Primarch's 'childhood' years. Erebus could have been a young adolescent by the time he was implanted.

[Dinks]

If there's a baddie to dislikes then Abaddon fills that for me. He's like the Grimlock of the Heresy - 'Me Abaddon say SMASH!' He's a caricature meat head villain.

 

I can rebuild him. I have the technology.

Do it , DO IT NOW! :cuss

 

He is an excellent bad guy. That he is so unlikable is a point of good writing.

 

Not always. How he's written sometimes is exactly what I don't like about him, and I think he feels less credible as an antagonist because of it.

Agreed, he should in my eyes at least come across as far more than the chap no one likes, he leads entire crusades and brings the legions together through sheer force of will (and fear). He should come across as a master strategist and leader and all that intales!

[Greyall]

I agree with the force of will and fear, as well as the leadership part. I'm not sure Abaddon is an uber strategist. Nor do I think he should be so, sometimes a goal and enough brute strength might work. Abaddon's point, I think, is that he doesn't have the touch of dramaticism nor the self-centeredness Horus had (not saying he doesn't have any). For example, he wouldn't have turned off the shield, for crying out loud...

[Dinks]

I agree with the force of will and fear, as well as the leadership part. I'm not sure Abaddon is an uber strategist. Nor do I think he should be so, sometimes a goal and enough brute strength might work. Abaddon's point, I think, is that he doesn't have the touch of dramaticism nor the self-centeredness Horus had (not saying he doesn't have any). For example, he wouldn't have turned off the shield, for crying out loud...

I think he should be a master strategist at the very least, okay he is never going to be a Julius Caesar but he has had 10,000 years of getting his strategies in order. I agree they will probably be pretty simplistic in a standard battle scenario, but on a wide scale he should be right up there, especially as he is playing the long game by wearing down the Imperium bit by bit.

[malika666]

Hmm, I think the difference would be that figures such as Horus, but also Erebus, are not only great strategists/tacticians, but also great political figures. I think Abaddon is purely a soldier, so yeah, he's good at fighting, tactics and strategy, but as a politician he is rather crude.