Hellios Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm not sure a Farseer for fortune is much help... I'm pretty sure the psychic powers might specify Eldar unit XD... I could be wrong... I'm not sure if they can cast it on themselves when attached to a non eldar unit and then give it to the entire squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I got confirmation today that Fantasy 8e style random terrain effects are in the core 40K rules. :) And that some -- see that: "some" -- armies will have psyker powers that will allow them to set the terrain effects to be what they want. :) That's one strike against 40K 6e right there. :) Shame. Get a confirmation or news on any of the other rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm not sure a Farseer for fortune is much help... I'm pretty sure the psychic powers might specify Eldar unit XD... I could be wrong... I'm not sure if they can cast it on themselves when attached to a non eldar unit and then give it to the entire squad? I was thinking about doom . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I don't care about a farseers physic powers, I just want his dirty runes of warding :D. So Mr Wolfy Rune Priest, you want to cast Jaws of the World Wolf. Sure, just do that on 3D6 with -4 leadership because of my reinforced aegis... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 And then there's even the more outrageous addition of psyker powers. That all Imperials (other than BT and, I think, Sisters) get. What about the Xenos? None for some (e.g., DE, Necrons), or extreme limits for others. Really, yet more fun and games for Imperials while non-Imperials get screwed. There is a veiled assumption you seem to be making here...which is that armies not receiving access to the new psychic powers get nothing else. Why is this assumption valid? (It's not.) You're assuming non imperials will get codices pretty soon. We all know it's not the case because 2/3 of the codices GW will release this edition (like the previous one) will be imperial ones. Non imperials were already waiting for decent codices to compete with imperial ones. Now, the wait will be even more painful because imperials get far more that everything the other could dream of. Ergo, yes, there's no point playing non imperial because those armies worth next to nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I got confirmation today that Fantasy 8e style random terrain effects are in the core 40K rules. I doubt any of my mates are ever going to want to use the Mystic Wood, so I hope we'll be all good on that! <_< Exactly... AFAIK, there's only "mysterious woods". Can't remember the last time I saw a forest in 40k. Ruins, bastions, bunkers, trenches, craters for my gaming group! I wonder if Perils of the Warp will get tougher (like miscasts did in WFB).... They way I see it, right now... Psyflemen will get even more common, if only for shooting down those flimsy fliers with St8 weapons. 4 TL shots have a good chance of giving you a 6. Also, the psychic defense gets more important. Termies/paladins might get a lot better. A guy over at HO read the WD battle report and said anything short of a power fist or power axe just won't cut it in combat, meaning they'll benefit from their 2+ armour save most of the time. Time will tell if PW/FW are AP2 or AP3 (or only power axes!?). Tanks might be more affected when attacked by AP2/3 weapons (like our NFW) so we might be very powerful against vehicles in CC. Throwing grenades will ne nice (especially since even our termies have them!). I wonder how our exotic grenades will work... Depending on how hard-hitting the new psychic powers will be, I can see our Libby (level 3!) being popular... That being said, I think the WD has in the "next month" section, something about "In next month's issue: BATTLE-BROTHERS AND INFERNAL ALLIES - We take a closer look at Allied Detachments." So I still wonder if I'll be able to take deamons as allies (to represent thousand sons during the heresy - I really only want some spawns!). Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You're assuming non imperials will get codices pretty soon.... No, actually; I'm assuming that non-Imperial (as well as Imperial) codecies will receive rather large FAQs very, very shortly after the new rules drop; I am also assuming that other changes in the Big New Book (things like changes to vehicles and AP, rapid-fire weapons being able to fire full single-taps on the move, etc.) will work out far better for other armies than the Imperium (consider Tau weaponry...my understanding is that it will benefit very, very well from AP and range changes). This whole "i am sooooo jadedlol" thing is unbecoming of us. The game has been serviceable all through this tragic, awkward period we call 5th Ed; it will remain so. Frankly, as I see it, it can only go up from here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 FAQ are not an end. FAQ and BRB will not magically make crappy codices as broken as the actual top tier. You don't put a bandage on someone who's dying from internal bleeding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 FAQ are not an end. FAQ and BRB will not magically make crappy codices as broken as the actual top tier. You don't put a bandage on someone who's dying from internal bleeding. I think you severely under-estimate just how dramatic and wide-sweeping the changes are going to be. They were big in 8th Ed Fantasy...and Fantasy already had a magic phase. If we're getting a psychic phase and some kind of resource limiting power usage, for instance, that's a massive change. If they add the "Your army passively resists psychic powers" just like Fantasy armies passively resist magic, that's a massive change; Necrons and Tau are supposed to be resistant to the Warp (or flat out not subject to it), right? So if we get a Psychic Phase and we get "Dispell Dice" even if we don't have casters, well...Dwarves have no casters and have an innate +2 to 'dispell', and that's in the basic rulebook...not their codex. What's to say Necrons and Tau won't get some flat buff to their ability to cancel psychic powers thrown around? That's just for starters. These are the kinds of changes I expect. EDIT: typo, clarification Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Tau will improve somewhat. Some Xenos armies will clearly benefit. Nid MC flyers will be much better and Hive Guard will be 3x3 in most lists. I expect to see more Flyrants, Harpies, Tervs, Warriors and Garg screens. Does this make Nids competitive? Well, as good as DE currently is perhaps but DE is not winning tournaments. The problem remains that their codexes are still outdated. Sure Nids can now reliably take out vehicles in cc, have nice extra psychic powers but is that enough to compete with Imperial armies? We will all have to revamp our armies somewhat. I always loved IG/Deamonhunter lists. But we already got henchmen and Coteaz. What allies do we really need? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 We will all have to revamp our armies somewhat. I always loved IG/Deamonhunter lists. But we already got henchmen and Coteaz. What allies do we really need? Hopefully, the answer to that is as easy as I think it is. There are no allies we really require to succeed. Allies are in to introduce variety. Virtually all fears about allies seem to stem from concerns that they'll be used to break armies and the game itself, despoiling tournaments. This is a bit funny to me as the game is already broken (has been) and tournaments have suffered for it. Let's not forget that they're already so severely meta'd and stagnant in list-design; not like that will change. We will continue to see some cookie-cutter set of "uber internet lists" as well as local heated arguments re: comp scoring. That is the nature of the tournament circuit now. There will be ways to get cheeky with 6th as there were ways with 5th. Why would we get mad about that now? For crowds of players that just like to play fun, friendly games, 6th Ed. will introduce a lot of interesting curve balls. 40k is ever a system for reasonable people. I'm excited for the changes and the variety we're going to see. Customize my librarians? An end to the deterministic 6" range game? A 'stand-and-shoot' response to being charged? Yes, please. I play Vanguard with my marines and I support this message. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Every rumor I see points very strongly towards an "8th Ed Fantasy" move for 40k; I really liked the changes, I'm sorry you didn't. I will say this though... There are more than a few game systems out there that flat out suck. Frankly, 5th Ed is one of them; it's full of holes, horribly imbalanced, and leaves a great deal to silent (even unconscious) gentlemen's agreements and friendly acquiescence. And if that continues into 6th, that's not a terrible worst case. Why? Because we can pick the people we game against; a good gaming group goes a long way to make even the worst rule-set workable. The fluff for 40k is great; I've gone on at length myself with my dislike of Mr. Ward's additions and modifications, but - over all - the Black Library and the old stuff all still stands strong, not to mention how it's constructed for the fans to build their own lore, their own armies, and their own stories. None of that goes away with 6th Ed. It is going to be okay. I promise you. The rules won't change our core gaming groups; we'll see some things we like, uniformly revile and dismiss things we don't, and talk out the crap we don't agree on. Thus, I know that it will be okay. Now, retake that Morale test. We come from very different gaming groups and preferences, I see! :lol: I loved, Loved. LOVED 5e 40k. LOVED! IT! Far and away the best game rules GW has yet made for any of its systems. Yes, it had warts, but name me a GW game that doesn't and I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Gentlemen's agreements with GW are part and parcel with the game. IMHO, the 5e rules set was about as impartially and properly balanced as we have yet seen, not favoring any particular force or army build within any force. It was only the proliferation of high-powered Imperial codexes at the expense of non-Imperials that, over the course of 4 years, pulled the game in a particular direction. (Namely, mechanized MSU. If vehicles weren't sooooo very inexpensive -- if they had remained as costly as the 4e codexes had them -- it'd be a very different gaming experience today.) As for game rules not driving away players ... that is exactly what has happened twice over in my gaming group. The gold-plated Imperial codexes in 5e pushed away all of the non-Imperial players for the last 15 months or so. I have been the only player still willing to put a non-Imperial army on the table for well over a year. :( And 8e Fantasy disbanded the entire Fantasy player base in my town. NOBODY plays it any more. My local FLGS has considered trying to liquidate its stock and not get back into it because it just isn't selling. The more 6e 40K is like 8e Fantasy, the less likely it is that I will be able to play the game. The more free gifts the Imperial armies get at the expense of non-Imperials, the less likely it is that I will be able to play the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Allying Eldar isn't all that useful for the powers. Fortune and Guide specifically only affect Eldar units. The rest have limited uses, but really you're just buying him for the Runes of Warding. Still, I'd buy him for the Runes of Warding in every single one of my Imperial armies. 90 points to jack with your opponent's psychic powers is fun... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 /seconding Thade. Some FAQ 'clarifications' can make or break dexes. Take Deathwing for example. Poo-pooed, until they got that nice FAQ that gave them 3++ SS and Heavy 2 CML. Then, Deathwing became fearsome, overnight. I don't care about a farseers physic powers, I just want his dirty runes of warding . So Mr Wolfy Rune Priest, you want to cast Jaws of the World Wolf. Sure, just do that on 3D6 with -4 leadership because of my reinforced aegis... Nasty! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I do find the thought of allies kind of (personally) ironic. When I started playing 40k back in 2nd edition, I played with the 'new' Space Wolves army, and, had a Greyknight attachment (hence came my love for Greyknights, the daemon destroyers supreme). Now, having come back to W40k 15 years on, I have built a Greyknight (with my fluff being they are one of the few Greyknight squads with unrestricted access to Fenris, due to prior good deeds) force which *may* have access to Space Wolves. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Apologies in advance for thade-style wall of text... We come from very different gaming groups and preferences, I see! :lol: I mean, make no mistake; we have more than our share of meta-hungry nerd-raging power gamers round these parts...but there's a very large subset of gamers here who love the art and story as much as the game. I'm not saying we go easy on each other, but people recognize broken/cheeky things from reasonable ones, and if someone wants that, it's a clear request and - if it's a surprise - it's a surprise to both players. You are more than welcome to join up, but I suspect you aren't a Boston local. :( Gentlemen's agreements with GW are part and parcel with the game. IMHO, the 5e rules set was about as impartially and properly balanced as we have yet seen, not favoring any particular force or army build within any force. I do and I don't agree with this. A lot of 5th Ed is very very well balanced; basically any codex (save poor Tyranids) dropped after Orks has stood the test of time. Orks are still remarkably competitive; every loyalist marine variant, of course; IG; DE; GK. Meanwhile, codecies like Nids, CSM, and Tau are having a remarkably rough time of it. And poor Demons. I mean, really. Poor demons. I have a clear impression that changes to Monstrous Creatures, the Assault phase, AP and range, and others are going to buff Tyranids and Tau and bring IG a bit more in line (even when they tank spam). Currently in Fantasy, no army is totally the suck; that's what I want for 40k. More variety = more fun. Allies just bolster this further. As for game rules not driving away players ... that is exactly what has happened twice over in my gaming group. This I have trouble comprehending; where I live right now there are a great many players with fervent, lasting love for 40k. The fluff is really the driver; if you love the models, the art, and the story, you will stand the test of time. If you are in it for the min-max competition stuff, you usually end up playing Warmachine around here. I really do not like Warmachine. It utterly lacks in variety coming from 40k (where you can customize sooo much) and is not the game I want. I want my Power Armor; I want my Power Fists; I want my insanely devout super-human genie monsters that were once people chanting litanies of fury. I want me 40k. The more 6e 40K is like 8e Fantasy, the less likely it is that I will be able to play the game. I really like 8th Ed Fantasy, haha; I still see only good here. Hopefully you at least give the new edition a few months before you give up on it. The more free gifts the Imperial armies get at the expense of non-Imperials, the less likely it is that I will be able to play the game. I see that no amount of my positive demeanor will sway you out of this fear, which I still feel is an unreasonable one. Let's reconvene on this after the new rules drop. I won't get to play a game with the new edition for like two weeks (as it's dropping the weekend before my vacation) but I'll have the rules in hand and will be eating them up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If I manage to convert my Imperial Guard into a Renegades and Heretics army, I will most definitely be collecting some World Eaters to accompany it. If not, I'll just keep my Imperial Guard as is and buy some Blood Angels! Either way I WILL have a massive firebase with some frothing maniacs to absorb the fire....... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If I manage to convert my Imperial Guard into a Renegades and Heretics army, I will most definitely be collecting some World Eaters to accompany it. This is precisely the kind of stuff I'm excited about in this edition, no matter which side of the table I'm on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3092700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Sanguinary Priests still have ATSKNF, don't they? Take 3 for one elite slot, attach them to 3 DCA units. DCA with FC, FNP *and* ATSKNF... Scary! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3093993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Sanguinary Priests still have ATSKNF, don't they? Take 3 for one elite slot, attach them to 3 DCA units. DCA with FC, FNP *and* ATSKNF... Scary! ;) Thats not scary because no one would ever play against you if you did that OR a team of allied 9 IG heavies will just pie templete you to death still. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3094027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Thats not scary because no one would ever play against you if you did that Free win at a tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3094075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Well: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...tiPageMode=true So, it looks like: Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Vanilla Marines, Sisters, Imperial Guard, Eldars, Dark Eldars (!), Necrons (!) and Orks(!) In a strange way, Tau seem to be able to take GKs as allies, though! Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3094111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 In a strange way, Tau seem to be able to take GKs as allies, though! Thats not too weird. The GK exist for one purpose: to oppose and destroy demons and warpspawn. Tau are unconnected to the Warp and have a mutual interest in destroying demons. They're not going to share brews after the fight, but if they're suddenly in the thick of it together, neither side is stupid. They'll work together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3094176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 What I meant is that the GK page doesn't show Tau as allies, yet the Tau page shows GKs as allies... More pragmatic :mellow: Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3094186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Oh, haha. Yeeaaa...I'm not sure we should take that info as presented just yet. :mellow: We'll see the truth of it soon enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254461-what-allies-will-you-take/page/2/#findComment-3094200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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