Grim Dog Studios Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hi all, after a break from the hobby I'm back, and having just finished my exams I now have 10 weeks to finally paint the 3000 points of space wolves I have amassed over the past two years. However, I was just wondering what the best unit is for Ragnar to attach to. I would assume Blood Claws and I was maybe going to go down the route of the Ragnar, 14 Claws, 1 Wolf Guard and a LR Crusader death star unit. However, I'm not quite sure if i want to pay for the Land Raider, points and money-wise, when I could fill up that Heavy slot with another pack of Long Fangs. Any help would be much appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Blood Claws always seem like the go to, but don't over look the wolf guard. You won't get the 15 model count but with a higher WS/BS and the ability for loads of upgrades they too can pack one hell of a punch. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 If you really want to spend points, wolf guard are the way to go as RPR stated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 If ever you intend to have footslogging Blood Claws, a LRC is nearly manditory, despite the loss of a Heavy Support slot. And with a goal of 3000pts, 250 on a LRC is negligible. Weighing the options, short of putting Ragnar with a pack of WG and getting the LRC as a dedicated transport, a maxed out pack of BCs are really the only other hard-hitting option. Grey Hunters, while great, won't maximize on the Insane Bravado rule, due to only having 8-9 of them, plus Ragnar, in a transport you can't assault out of and likely can't hold up to the beating they'll likely take while flooring it to enemy melee. The loss of a LF pack can be slightly reconciled with a squadron of land speeders, since aside from TWC, they're the only really good Fast Attack option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thargrim_Bloodwolf Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Blood claws with Ragnar is a waste of points coz his charge bonus of d3 attacks cancels out their normal 2 extra attacks which is more reliable. Due to this conflict of their rules I would put Ragnar with some teched up grey hunters in a rhino so he can get into combat with relative safety and have some ablative wounds. Alternatively putting him with wold guard might be worth while as they have the most wargear options and can therefore be hard hitting in cc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Blood claws with Ragnar is a waste of points coz his charge bonus of d3 attacks cancels out their normal 2 extra attacks which is more reliable. Per the SW FAQ, BCs will always be granted their +2 attacks on the charge, even if Ragnar's Insane Bravado rolls a 1, so a pack of BCs with Ragnar are guaranteed +2-3 attacks on the charge. However, WG do get the highest potential for attacks (5), versus the BCs maximum of 4. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 So it seems that Blood Claws and LR Crusader would be my best option then. I currently only run 8 wolf guard, 5 in TDA with a drop pod, and 3 pack leaders. If it helps, this is my "list" for the 3000 points of wolves, I posted it up yesterday but so far have had no replies as of yet: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=254431 And Wulfebane, how well do you find the land speeders do in most games, and what do you usually use them for, I would assume tank hunting but I'm not sure. I had completely overlooked them until now and they seem like they could be quite a viable unit when in game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 If you have points to burn I'd recommend Wolf Guard with a mix of Terminators for the 2+ save, PA ones with Storm Shields for assigning wounds, a couple of Frost Blades and Power Fists, etc. And topped off with a Wolf Priest or Ulrik. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I always find that WG in PA armed with PWs or FWs do the most damage, they may cost more but will hit better and ignore armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 And Wulfebane, how well do you find the land speeders do in most games, and what do you usually use them for, I would assume tank hunting but I'm not sure. I had completely overlooked them until now and they seem like they could be quite a viable unit when in game. I really like having a typhoon in the back deployment popping up from behind a building. Three land speeder tornados, while not as versatile as five missile launchers, is still six heavy weapons. Three typhoons on the other hand, are six missiles on top of three heavy weapons. Biggest benefit I've found about them is their mobility. If your LF packs are poorly positioned and you get flanked or infiltrated, land speeders can likely get into position fairly quickly without necessarily sacrificing too much fire power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I've used Ragnar in one of three ways so far: 1. In Land Raided Phobos with Grey Hunters and WGPL. 2. In Land Raider with 1x PAWG and 4x WGTDA 3. In Drop Pod with 1x PAWG and 4x WGTDA All three options worked wonderfully, but only traveling in the Land Raider actually guarantees that you'll pull off the charge. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostclaw222 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ragnar is best with Grey Hunters and a Wolf Standard. Sure, toss in the WGPL with double-plus close combat goodness, maybe wolf claws or a thunder hammer and stormshield or something. Definitely take the invisible power weapon/fist and the requisite meltagun in case of approaching armor. But between Ragnar and the Standard, with the basic GH profile? No better way to put him to use. Points-efficient and very, very killy. Plus, everything you get is used, from Ragnar's extra attack bonus to the the Standard enhancing Ragnar to the nth. Think about it. Worth the effort, in my book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ragnar is best with Grey Hunters and a Wolf Standard. Sure, toss in the WGPL with double-plus close combat goodness, maybe wolf claws or a thunder hammer and stormshield or something. Definitely take the invisible power weapon/fist and the requisite meltagun in case of approaching armor. But between Ragnar and the Standard, with the basic GH profile? No better way to put him to use. Points-efficient and very, very killy. Plus, everything you get is used, from Ragnar's extra attack bonus to the the Standard enhancing Ragnar to the nth. QFT, but add in arjack aswell, sure it's a lot of points in 1 single unit but this unit WILL destroy anything it faces, even has the chance to destory a titan in a single go i believe offcourse this might all change when 6th edition hits us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostclaw222 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 My thought is that at least this one combo will not be substantively diminished. In truth, I think it'll get better. I hesitate to add Arjac in, as it may halt rolling from assault to assault, slowing down Ragnar when he really needs to be a pell-mell shredder. I more look at Ragnar's squad as carving into one flank (possibly with some fast, anti-armor support, like up-gunned Speeders), with Arjac and some TDA WG with Logan forging up the center in a LRC or something similar, with a GH gunline following in their wake, studded with Long Fangs, and supplemented by sniper scout squads with an OBEL one lurking in the wings. Implacable. The Standard, Ragnar's bonuses, and then Logan's and Ragnar's combined in the largest scrum--it'd all be a little epic. Lots of points on the table there, though, particularly if you stud it with a few Rune Priests. But either/or the Logan/Ragnar packs, and it almost looks like an achievable army list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3091994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ragnar + blood claws wastes their +D3 or his insane bravado. Ragnar + wolf guard is far to expensive a death star unit. The best way to use Ragnar (and the way i plan to run him) is Ragnar + 10 grey hunters (with wolf standard, MotW and power weapon/fist) + wolf guard with combi-melta and power fist, all in a LRR/E. Or just Ragnar + 9 hunters with standard in a rhino woudl be about the minimum I'd run. Stat adding in arjac, wolf priest etc or other bits and it starts getting very expensive very quickly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ragnar + blood claws wastes their +D3 or his insane bravado. Wrong. Read the FAQ, or at the very least bother to read the whole thread you post in. Also, BCs don't get a D3. That IS Insane Bravado. BCs get Berserk Charge which is +2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ragnar + blood claws wastes their +D3 or his insane bravado. Wrong. Read the FAQ, or at the very least bother to read the whole thread you post in. Also, BCs don't get a D3. That IS Insane Bravado. BCs get Berserk Charge which is +2. no need to be a dick about it fella, you are correct I hadn't read the whole thread I was posting my tuppence while in a rush. And considering I haven't played 40k since 1998, when you were still soiling yourself, I'm assuming you could forgive an old long fang for a lapse in memory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have only really had the best results with Wolf Guard with mixed weapons. Eight man squad with three FW, three PW, and two normal CCW, with a Wolf Priest in a Land Raider. And I ran this in a 1000 point game and got second in a tournment only because I got a draw with another SW player because he ran away like a little girl. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 no need to be a dick about it fella, you are correct I hadn't read the whole thread I was posting my tuppence while in a rush. And considering I haven't played 40k since 1998, when you were still soiling yourself, I'm assuming you could forgive an old long fang for a lapse in memory. Did you actually bother to read the response you left chodjinn?? Nobody cares how long you've been playing when you post rude responses like this one... End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 So I performed a little mathhammer.. and be warned, I am in no way a master practitioner of the artform, so I'll concede to any mistakes, but... I'm ignoring Ragnar's own provided attacks, focusing only on the attacks provided by the unit he's with combined with Ragnar's Insane Bravado. I'm also assuming every member of each unit has 2 ccws and is on the charge, for maximum attack point value: Wolf Priest (granted to any of the following units) Attacks - 4 (min) ; 6 (max) Preferred Enemy Wolf Guard x10 Attacks - 40 ; 60 Blood Claws x15 Attacks - 60 ; 75 Blood Claws x14 (Allowing Ragnar + WP/WG in a LRC) Attacks - 56 ; 70 Grey Hunters x9 (Allowing Ragnar in a Rhino) Attacks - 27 ; 45 I left out the x10 Grey Hunter pack (A=30;50) because I personally feel having Ragnar + 10 Grey Hunters would require a LRR/LRC which imo is too many points, but I could be the minority. All in all, I still don't care for the idea of giving Ragnar to a pack of GH. It is the lowest overall attack value and in order to guarantee them the initial assault, you pretty much have to put them in a land raider. Rags + WP/WG +10 GH in a redeemer is an idea, but still not enough for me to negate the other options. Having 10 WG is appealing, especially given the wargear options, but unless the army points range is "sky's the limit", I think it's very inefficient. However, the fact that using a pack of WG to get that land raider as a dedicated transport will save a heavy support slot for more LFs, so in that regard there's a nice trade-off for the points. Ultimately though, I still prefer the 14-15 BCs in a LRC. Even though BCs have a lower WS, granting potentially 20-15 additional attacks over the WG option is nothing to frown at. Also, keep in mind that despite the BCs lower WS of 3, providing them a WP (and thusly Preferred Enemy) allows them a reroll of all 56-70 dice if necessary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Your choice will, obviously, depend on what points level you plan on playing. You mentioned painting up at least 3,000 points worth of Space Wolves, but are you planning on fielding them at the same time? If so, then you can look into combining Ragnar with Arjak, and a Wolf Priest, and Wolf Guard, etc., and there won't be many, if any, units in the game that they can't take down. However, if you are actually playing at the more common 1,750/1,850 points level, then you really can't afford to invest well over half of your points into one Death Star unit. You can, however, still get a lot of use out of Ragnar with a Grey Hunter pack, and a standard Wolf Guard Pack Leader. Depending on the rest of your army, you can deploy via cheap Drop Pod or Rhino (probably not getting an initial charge off, but maybe in later turns). However, If you sacrifice elsewhere, then you can spring for a Land Raider and get yourself a more-or-less guaranteed charge (at 16 to 26 inches, based on upcoming rules). This option has the additional advantage of providing a very formidable and survivable tank for destroying enemy armored vehicles, in addition to its provision of enhanced mobility. Although this combination isn't going to walk over every unit in the game, it can easily handle most, and will do what you need an Assault Force to do for you in a game. As I stated earlier, I've used Ragner in a variety of ways in 5e, and had great success with every option. You don't have to combine him with Arjak and/or a Wolf Priest to wreck face with Ragnar. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Thanks all for the input, I suppose I'll just have to decided before having a game what unit to run him in really, as I doubt I would be using the full 3000 points often. You've all given me a lot of options also, so I think the only proper way is trying each unit a few times and finding out what works for me and what doesn't! Also Wulfebane thanks for mentioning the Land Speeders, I'm considering buying two or three and possibly magnetizing them now. More work to do! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Also Wulfebane thanks for mentioning the Land Speeders, I'm considering buying two or three and possibly magnetizing them now. More work to do! :D Very welcome.. and absolutely magnetize them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3092496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 note that ,with the new overwatch rule, big units and or screening units,aswell as placement of your units suddently will become far more important. for all we knwo blooadclaws may become the new next big thingy in our dex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3093189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 note that ,with the new overwatch rule, big units and or screening units,aswell as placement of your units suddently will become far more important. for all we knwo blooadclaws may become the new next big thingy in our dex With assaulting units getting I10 and some sort of divebomb rule for jump packs, I think we'll at least see a rise in Skyclaws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254479-best-unit-for-ragnar/#findComment-3093199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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