Pigment "splotches"?

[Volgon]

Hey guys, I'm trying my hand at hand painting again and I'm really trying to get it right. I'm using Vallejo Game Color Magic Blue and thinning it about 3:1 water to paint (I figure I'm ok with doing many thin coats as long as I have a lot of pieces to work on at once, otherwise I'll get impatient). The problem I'm having is that (especially on larger surfaces) I can paint a surface, but it doesn't dry all at once. There is typically a spot or two that appears to be a pigment concentration. What ends up happening is the rest of the part will dry smoothly but then I have this dark blotch of what I suppose is pigment (you guys have probably seen something like this and know what I'm talking about). The blotch ends up drying and it's much darker than the rest of the piece, or there is a visible pattern (like a swirl) that is darker than the rest. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here and why this is happening.

 

Am I loading my brush with too much paint? I dip my brush until around 1/4 to 1/2 of it has paint on it. Should I wipe some off on the pallet or remove some of the mixture by touching it to a paper towel? Maybe I'm thinning my paints too much? I could try 1:2 water to paint. I'm fairly new to actually painting (though I've followed the hobby for a while) so anyone with advice would be appreciated!

[striker8]

Sounds like you're loading the brush with too much paint. I use Vallejo GC and MC and thin them to the point they almost seperate and only get that effect when I fail to unload the brush a bit before applying the paint to the mini.

 

For unloading you can do it on the pallet, a piece of paper, a box, your hand, anything that will take some but not all the paint from the brush. I wouldn;t recomend anything to absorbent like a paper towel though, they tend to whick away to much paint when thinned.

 

It will take some time to learn how much paint you need to remove from the brush depending on the brush and the color so pratice a few times on a scrap or test surface till you get close to the way you want it to flow then refine the number of times you unload the brush as you paint a mini. After a while you'll learn how much to unload the brush by eye after loading it.

[Volgon]

Great answer, that's pretty much what I expected was the case. I think I'll also try to work from edges inward so that the larger areas don't have large concentrations of paint on them (meaning the pigment won't likely pool up there).

[striker8]

I'd still recomend learning how much paint you can have in the brush so you can work from any direction. Your idea may work sort of, but if you got tide marks before changing the direction you paint without reducing the amount of paint in the brush will just move the position where they will form.

[Volgon]

How much paint do you typically load your brush with? And then how much do you take off? I would imagine one or two short, quick swipes on a pallet would probably be good enough.

[striker8]

It's hard to explain how the brush looks without physicaly showing you and it varies so much depending on the technique, brand or paint, and even color. Some times a stroke or two is enough, others it may take 4 or 5.

 

Try loading your brush look at it and see how it looks, give a stroke to unload and again opbserve how the brush looks with that amount of paint and then paint a square on a primed piece of scrap and see how the paint flows off. Load the brush again in exactly the same manner and repeat the process untill you get things flowing off the brush evenly without the flooding. When you hit the sweet spot and things are flowing good really try to remember how the brush looks before and after unloading so you'll be able to use that mental picture as a base that can later be modified for different techniques and colors. After a while you won't have to remember how many stokes it takes to unload to the right amount you'll do it by habit.

[Volgon]

Well, I gave it a shot and I still seem to be having issues. Maybe I'm not taking enough paint off the brush (I'll keep experimenting) but I've got pictures this time.

 

http://i.imgur.com/xhayc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zYhuD.jpg

 

I've circled the areas where the pooling is most obvious. I can always tell when the paint is going to do that because the rest of the area is dry while the pooling areas are still wet. Is this from me still not taking enough paint off my brush? Thanks.

[Red Fury]

It looks like you have your paint so much that you are essentially painting with washes. To me it looks like puddles, runny paint puddling up like a wash. Either don't thin it so much, or apply even thinner layers to avoid puddles.

[Volgon]

Hmm, maybe I need to get a new bottle of paint. Those puddles are from 1 drop paint 2-3 drops water, I tried it with multiple drops of paint + only 1 drop of water as well and get similar results. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if the paint is just bad (it's probably a 5 year old bottle or so).

[striker8]

What directions are your brush stokes going in? Are you starting or ending the stroke in the areas showing the gathered pigment? And do you see the puddles immediatley or do they form as the paint dries?

 

To me it's looking like the you're thinning the paint further than even I do and I thin quite a bit over what is normal. But there is a catch to that though, if those marks are at a start or end point you can still be having the brush over loaded. So the problem may be a combination fo two seperate issues.

[Volgon]

I'd say those areas are likely where the stroke is ended since I prefer to work from one edge to the next (so I probably started at the top edge and ended up at the bottom). The puddles form as the paint is drying; typically what happens is the rest of the area is dry but there are puddles that are still drying out (which is what forms the blotches).

 

I will have to take a closer look at how I'm thinning my paint. Since I use Vallejo, I have drop bottles and all I do is put a few drops of paint and then a few drops of water (I have water in a drop bottle as well). It seems quite likely that I'm thinning my paints too much and not unloading enough paint from my brush. I'll give it a shot later and see how it comes out. You guys have been a great help!

[Red Fury]

Add flow-aid to your water mix. Liquidtex flowaid is available at michaels and will last forever when you dilute it in water 10:1.

 

It changes the surface tension of the water so that it flows and covers instead of puddling.

 

I've used a lot of old paint, like well over 10 years old, I don't think its that unless it is not mixing well. You can add BBs to the bottle to help the paint mix.

[striker8]

One more question for you. When your thinning your paint on the pallet are you getting dark swirls and a dark ring at the edges of the puddle? That signals that the paint is seperating. If you are seeing that you are thining to much for your paintng style, for me I always have a bit of seperation and didn't even think to ask.

 

THere are couple of tricks I use when I do get s bit of puddling at the end of a stroke. Instead of reloading the brush you just reverse direction if the area is small, or just drag the brush through the puddles and along the edge spreading it out.

 

The other I only use with colors that alwys seem to do that for me and I'm going for a really high level is to use two brushes. One is the brush you do most of the painting with, the other is just there to act as a mop and you just drag it along the edge every few strokes to collect the excess paint. You have to remember to keep the secondary brush rinsed though or you'll have problems.

 

Keep plugging away and coming back when you have problems, you'll get things figured out eventually. The only way to get better is to paint and learn from experience and others.

[Volgon]

When I first thin the paint it's a solid color, but as time goes on I start to see swirls. I give the paint a small mix when I see that happen.

 

Finally, some good news though! I was working at it tonight and I think I might have made a breakthrough and figured out some important stuff. First, I think I can tell now how much paint I need to have on my brush (it really is very little) and also that I should only work with the tip of the brush. I think before I was probably using a bit of the side of the brush and that might have been dumping extra liquid onto the surface. I was still getting a bit of puddling if my technique wasn't correct (if I had too much paint on my brush most likely) but if I only paint a bit at a time I can watch out for puddling and, if I see it, go over that area and spread the pooling paint around (essentially doing a second coat with one brush load of paint).

 

I'll keep plugging at it. After reviewing the pieces I successfully worked on tonight it seems like my colors aren't as vivid as if I used straight out of the bottle paint, even after numerous layers. That will be the thing I work on next I think, perhaps not thinning my paint as much (I was working with 1:3 paint to water, I might try 1:2 next time) and see how that comes out. Like everyone says, just need to practice. Thanks again to you two!