6th Edition Tactica Prep

[ImperialGuardian]

Hi all, I wanted to start a strategy discussion on how current units may be affected in 6th edition. I want to keep this strictly tactica based so please take any rumor debating to that forum.

 

The best compilation of rumors I have seen is the first post of:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page

 

Here goes nothing to get us started...

 

Unit: DROP POD

If rapid fire weapons can shoot full range when they move or deep strikers can assault the same turn then this unit is now much better.

The increase in range of rapid fire weapons while moving means you can drop tactical squads relatively far from the target and still get a shot off.

This allows the tactical squad to be much safer and still do something the turn they drop (instead of always having to drop into assault range)

If you can assault off of the pod then that makes pack-less vanguards, command squads, or assault squads super powerful when thrown into one of these.

The guidance system pretty much guarantees a charge.

 

Unit: SCOUTS

If snipers can allocate wounds then this unit is now much better.

This makes them all mini telions... 'nuff said. One thing to worry about is that there is no confirmation that sniper still confers rending.

 

Unit: TELION

If snipers can allocate wounds then this unit is now potentially useless.

He may just be a 50 point option for cameo cloaks if the little guys can do anything he can.

 

Unit: STORMTALON GUNSHIP

If flyers can only be hit on 6's, and MC's with wings are flyers then this unit is now a must have.

Nothing else can really stop a flying Daemon prince from jumping 24 inches into the heart of your army and destroying anything it wants.

Flyers seem to be like stealth vehicles in Starcraft 2 as a result of this rule... if they have them and you cant hit/detect it, you are screwed.

 

Unit: TH SS TERMINATORS

If power weapons are AP3 then this unit is now not strictly better than lightning claws anymore.

This one gets complicated. The rumors are power swords are AP3 and only power fist type weapons and monstrous creatures are AP2.

We don't know if lightning claws and power axes are AP2 or 3... which also greatly affects this.

On one side, if there are a lot less things that can penetrate 2+ armor, the need for the 3+ invulnerable goes down.

On the other side, if lightning claws are AP3 as well, LC terminators get a big nerf.

If lightning claws are indeed AP2 and only power fists and initiative 1 weapons are AP2, this gives LC a huge advantage.

 

<more to come>

[Derrios]

reading through it the posts I found say *if you roll 6s you can allocate and they no longer rend.

 

That makes Telion still useful for sure.

 

I am reading mixed things about rapid Fire. Few posts say "same rules as 5th edition"

 

WD this month talks about Tau being able to move and still rapid fire pulse rifles @ 30.

 

The double the force org @ 2k points is going to be the crazy thing. Hello I have 12 rifleman dreads enjoy 48 rerolling if i miss AC shots.

I wonder what kind of weird meta u could do with 4 tech marines and 12 dreads and repair them.

[facmanpob]

Ok, here goes....

 

tactical heavy weapons can move and shoot at BS1 (was in White Dwarf) - does this make the missile launcher the most attractive HW choice for tacticals?.....its free, firing frag still gives you the same chance of not scattering, and is a similar Strength and AP to the humble bolter round.

 

"snap fire when being charged" weapons can be fired at the charging unit at BS1, however flamer gets D3 automatic hits (again from White Dwarf) - does this make the flamer/combi-flamer the goto special weapons choices for a defensive tactical squad?

[darrkespur]

reading through it the posts I found say *if you roll 6s you can allocate and they no longer rend.

 

That makes Telion still useful for sure.

 

I am reading mixed things about rapid Fire. Few posts say "same rules as 5th edition"

 

WD this month talks about Tau being able to move and still rapid fire pulse rifles @ 30.

 

The double the force org @ 2k points is going to be the crazy thing. Hello I have 12 rifleman dreads enjoy 48 rerolling if i miss AC shots.

I wonder what kind of weird meta u could do with 4 tech marines and 12 dreads and repair them.

 

I think I remember reading that blast weapons can't snap fire.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think I remember reading that blast weapons can't snap fire.

 

True statement, which makes me frown heavily at my four plasma cannon models. That, and AP2 no longer kicking FNP to the curb. On that note, might we see a resurgence of the heavy bolter? Granted, you're not likely to get lots of hits off of it with Snap Fire, but three shots at BS1 is better than one shot at BS1. . . and C:SM has Divination for Libbies, one of the powers therein allowing defensive Snap Fire at full BS. . . .

[Derrios]

C:SM doesn't have divination you would have to ally to obtain that.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

C:SM doesn't have divination you would have to ally to obtain that.

 

Oh, I thought they did. My bad.

[Koremu]

Unit: Tactical Squad

Item: Heavy Bolter

 

Will become much more prevalent due to snap fire rules for Heavy Weapons

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yeah, I mentioned that three posts up, Koremu...

[minigun762]

True statement, which makes me frown heavily at my four plasma cannon models. That, and AP2 no longer kicking FNP to the curb.

 

Good news is that plasma cannons have some added anti-tank power now being AP2 and blast weapons doing full damage as long as they hit. I'd say they match up with missiles pretty well for taking out the light armor.

[Grey Mage]

Ok, here goes....

 

tactical heavy weapons can move and shoot at BS1 (was in White Dwarf) - does this make the missile launcher the most attractive HW choice for tacticals?.....its free, firing frag still gives you the same chance of not scattering, and is a similar Strength and AP to the humble bolter round.

 

"snap fire when being charged" weapons can be fired at the charging unit at BS1, however flamer gets D3 automatic hits (again from White Dwarf) - does this make the flamer/combi-flamer the goto special weapons choices for a defensive tactical squad?

Blast weapons cant snap fire.

[Koremu]

Did Araziel mention that Krak Grenades vs Monstrous creatures in CC? Big implication for Marines i.e Tactical squads.

 

*image of shoving a Krak Grenade where the sun don't shine*

 

 

In combat vs Monstrous Creatures or Vehicles, models with grenades can use them. Max one attack per model, Roll weaponskill (remember WS0 for stationary/immobile vehicle, WS1 for moved)

 

Krak grenades are Str6 AP4, strike at initiative.

Meltabombs are Str8 AP1, but unwieldy, so Init 1 if used.

 

No 'grenades hit on 6's' vs walkers either - Normal weaponskill. Immobile walkers hit on rear armor, otherwise roll vs front armor as per 5th.

 

So in other words, Tactical Marines are Str6 vs MC's that charge them. Not world beating, but better than a kick in the teeth - will wound most MCs on 4+ rather than 6's like before.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My old trick of using big block Tac Terminators led by Lysander has become more attractive, as well. Make sure Lysander's out front so that he's first in line for taking hits, and make sure of the 2d6 assault range to get in an earlier charge than normal and put those AP2 power fists to work. GK Termies no longer have anything on us! . . . and here's a thought.

 

So, the new shooting rules state that models closest to the shooters are taken as casualties first. So what happens, as in this situation, where the closest model is a multi-wound Eternal Warrior? Will every single shot go into Lysander first and only when -- if -- he dies, the other Terminators start making saves? Because while that means Lysander's life expectancy is going to drop, the rest of the Terminators, if intelligently placed on the tabletop, are going to suffer fewer casualties and thus deliver more models on-target.

[asianavatar]

So, the new shooting rules state that models closest to the shooters are taken as casualties first. So what happens, as in this situation, where the closest model is a multi-wound Eternal Warrior? Will every single shot go into Lysander first and only when -- if -- he dies, the other Terminators start making saves? Because while that means Lysander's life expectancy is going to drop, the rest of the Terminators, if intelligently placed on the tabletop, are going to suffer fewer casualties and thus deliver more models on-target.

 

Yep, he will soak up all the wounds until he is dead.

[DarkGuard]

So, the new shooting rules state that models closest to the shooters are taken as casualties first. So what happens, as in this situation, where the closest model is a multi-wound Eternal Warrior? Will every single shot go into Lysander first and only when -- if -- he dies, the other Terminators start making saves? Because while that means Lysander's life expectancy is going to drop, the rest of the Terminators, if intelligently placed on the tabletop, are going to suffer fewer casualties and thus deliver more models on-target.

 

Yep, he will soak up all the wounds until he is dead.

 

If that's the case I'm resurrecting my 1st and 10th list, complete with a Stormtalon or two when I can get them. :lol:

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No kidding, DG! Good bye, Combat Tactics! It was good while it lasted.

[MordentHex]

Ok, here goes....

 

tactical heavy weapons can move and shoot at BS1 (was in White Dwarf) - does this make the missile launcher the most attractive HW choice for tacticals?.....its free, firing frag still gives you the same chance of not scattering, and is a similar Strength and AP to the humble bolter round.

 

"snap fire when being charged" weapons can be fired at the charging unit at BS1, however flamer gets D3 automatic hits (again from White Dwarf) - does this make the flamer/combi-flamer the goto special weapons choices for a defensive tactical squad?

Blast weapons cant snap fire.

What about sternguard with combiflamers? Droppod in, rapidfire the crap out of something wait for the counter charge and snapfire with 10d3 autohits before close combat. beat down whats left in close combat, then next turn rapidfire something else. :D Not a bad option and maybe make it worth taking over the other combibolter options.

[Kierdale]

What about sternguard with combiflamers? Droppod in, rapidfire the crap out of something wait for the counter charge and snapfire with 10d3 autohits before close combat. beat down whats left in close combat, then next turn rapidfire something else. :D Not a bad option and maybe make it worth taking over the other combibolter options.

By extension, how about heavy flamers?

 

Either way, I really like the way you think, MordentHex.

[MordentHex]

heavy flamers too. 8xd3 flamer 2xd3 heavy flamer. Whole new meaning to burn the Heretic. You could make that fabled wall of flame with three sternguard squads and burn em down.

[Guardian of the Rage]

Landspeeder Tornado

 

Looking over the rules for fast vehicles and skimmers, I think that the Landspeeder tornado (in a config other than the MM+HF) might be making a comeback. Looks as though it can fire 2 weapons after moving 12 inches (at full BS) as well as getting a 5+ jink save at that same movement speed.

 

Had not seen it mentioned anywhere else.

 

GotR

[Koremu]

Landspeeder Tornado

 

Looking over the rules for fast vehicles and skimmers, I think that the Landspeeder tornado (in a config other than the MM+HF) might be making a comeback. Looks as though it can fire 2 weapons after moving 12 inches (at full BS) as well as getting a 5+ jink save at that same movement speed.

 

Had not seen it mentioned anywhere else.

 

GotR

Correct.

 

It's also worth noting that Fast Skimmers can move 18" Flat Out, making their maximum redeployment range 30"

[DarkGuard]

Just though I'd mention that the FAQ not only allows us to combat squad our units in reserve (as opposed to when they are deployed from reserve and at the beginning of the game), but that two combat squads from the same "parent" unit can embark in the same transport provided there's space. A bit more book keeping on the latter, but makes more sense.

 

How will this change attitudes to combat squads? They still can't rejoin, and can't split later in the game, but it may see more use because of the transport restriction being lifted.

[McSnow]

How will this change attitudes to combat squads? They still can't rejoin, and can't split later in the game, but it may see more use because of the transport restriction being lifted.

 

I can already see myself splitting my tactical squads once they've reached their destination. Seeing as though I usually use them to hold a midfield objective while my heavier forces (terminators, honour guard, etc) push up further I may combat squad them out of the rhino, keep my sgt, special weapons and heavy weapon in one and have all bolters in the 2nd.

 

While that may seem a strange way of doing it, I can keep all my key models behind those 5 ablative wounds granting the rear squad not only a cover save but if someone wanted to assault me I would make sure I placed them in a manner that meant they would have to assault both. Therefor they would lose their +1 attack and I would get to overwatch both combat squads at the attackers.

[Derrios]

Coincidently the the store I preordered at. I picked up 3 boxes of sniper scouts (to make it 2 full squads), another battleforce, and a storm. So theres 20 snipers and 2 storm squads of melta doom to compliment my tac termies.

 

I hate when we all have the same good idea lol. Then I feel less original. I just cant see how snipers wont be amazing as the wound allocation on 6s will be amazing. I guess mathhammer the difference with Telion now vs costs.

 

edit

 

*sorry I didnt get amazing in the second line more.

[DarkGuard]

How will this change attitudes to combat squads? They still can't rejoin, and can't split later in the game, but it may see more use because of the transport restriction being lifted.

 

I can already see myself splitting my tactical squads once they've reached their destination. Seeing as though I usually use them to hold a midfield objective while my heavier forces (terminators, honour guard, etc) push up further I may combat squad them out of the rhino, keep my sgt, special weapons and heavy weapon in one and have all bolters in the 2nd.

 

While that may seem a strange way of doing it, I can keep all my key models behind those 5 ablative wounds granting the rear squad not only a cover save but if someone wanted to assault me I would make sure I placed them in a manner that meant they would have to assault both. Therefor they would lose their +1 attack and I would get to overwatch both combat squads at the attackers.

 

I think you may have misunderstand the FAQ or my post. You declare combat squads before you deploy anything. So you can declare combat squads with a Tactical squad, then put both units in the Rhino, but when they get out of the Rhino they will always be two units. If you don't declare it before deployment then you can't split them at all later in the battle.