Bryan Blaire Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm not sure I get the "it's a universal rule" from reading the sentence in White Dwarf. The way it is worded, it could be a universal rule, but since it's talking specifically about Ravenwing bikes and speeders there (since there were mentions of the White Scars, but no statements about their bikes, which could have just been because they had a foot moving WS army), it doesn't read up front as all bikes and Speeders to me. If someone is quoting a GW source, can you provide a page reference or something (or at least quote the preview rules sheet that GW store managers should be getting very shortly), because until then, it's just a bunch of random people on the Internet arguing over rumors and speculations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3095208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 A guy at reddit had the rule book and was answering questions (he posted a pic of the book with his handle a proof), and he confirmed jink is a universal rule for skimmers and jetbikes. He didn't mention normal bikes though, but others have said bikes get it too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3095849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 It didn't happen to look anything like this, did it? Link to photo of the Big Green Book on someone's painting desk Sorry, not to be a total skeptic, but I'm hoping they didn't give more away, especially as that seemed to be about one of the last unique ways we might be able to retain a full Codex... Now we might as well be C:SM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3095944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 No, it didn't look like that, but of course any pic can be altered nowadays. However, this guy very quickly and very consistently answered tons of questions about the rules, and it all jived with what we know from official sources. It's the real deal. Edit: here's a link to a page summarizing the Q&A session. judge for yourselves. http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/06/q-and-w...odness.html?m=1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3095979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yep...looks to me like, yet again, the other named chapters get to keep what's theirs, while DA wealth (tactical squad plasma cannons, mortis dreadnoughts, terminator troops, bike troops) is expropriated and redistributed to all and sundry. The beat goes on with the jink save...first they take it away from us. Then they wait a couple years. And expect us not to remeber that it was ours and only ours when they make it a USR. Never forgive, never forget! I don't want a DA emperor's champion. I don't want DA overcharged engines. I don't want DA scouts coming on from the enemy's hom board edge. I want all of the other chapters to keep their toys.... BUT STOP GIVING THEM MINE! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3096636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Springemann Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 @March10k this is just further proof that all the other chapters want to be just like the DA. I am glad they are bringing Jink saves back even if it is an USR. In my group gamers don't like my Deathwing because I tend to make an unusually high number of Invul saves and now they bring back my jink save for my bikes and landspeeders. :D Now I really can't wait till Saturday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3096749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynolds Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 As Lucien hopefully stated, and march10k culminated. Once more the thesis that our 4th edition was only a test-bed for almost every codex afterwards was the truth... It saddens me deeply, that once one of the most selling SM army has deteriorated to this, a half-dysfunctional army that is nothing compared to the "glory days" of the 3rd edition, when I fielded a Deathwing Army costing 52 points each, without a Invulnerable Save. Hell, they might've been overpriced, without their invulnerable save, but I was the only one in our tournaments fielding a Full Terminator Army with a Land Raider. The psychological factor was like-none-other, and I felt Proud being the First. It had an insanely steep learning curve: No room for mistakes, but when I got the hang of it, and I beat opponents, and as the point decrease + Invulnerable Save, people didn't even wanna play against me due to that "psychological factor", even if I lost. - These days I even dread to think... A play-test against Lysander Wing was simply absurd, felt like a cold bucket of water in my face. Not to mention Ultramarines and their "Relic Blades".... I apologize for my frustration, but I will keep on "biting the bullet" for now, and see what the 30th brings for us. For if GW made the 2011 Errata based on their Global Sales Decrease of 2011, and not because of anything else(being in the works). - They should remember, We Were The Most Selling group at few points, when now we are the least, we all know why(so should them). If I will not hear something concretic 'til the end of the year of the Unforgiven, I will maintain my hiatus until the world is a better place. *** Until then, I will patiently wait, as I did the past years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3096791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwing70 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 It actually doesn't surprise me that GW might be looking for a new parade horse to promote, after all.. in my impression over the years the UltraMarines have been getting more and more "special" units that imo make them less codex. Basically it feels to me as if the Dark Angels have slowly become more 'codex' in terms of chapter make-up than any other chapter out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3097504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Yep...looks to me like, yet again, the other named chapters get to keep what's theirs, while DA wealth (tactical squad plasma cannons, mortis dreadnoughts, terminator troops, bike troops) is expropriated and redistributed to all and sundry. The beat goes on with the jink save...first they take it away from us. Then they wait a couple years. And expect us not to remeber that it was ours and only ours when they make it a USR. Never forgive, never forget! I don't want a DA emperor's champion. I don't want DA overcharged engines. I don't want DA scouts coming on from the enemy's hom board edge. I want all of the other chapters to keep their toys.... BUT STOP GIVING THEM MINE! +1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3097536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solly Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Morning brothers, according to beasts of war website the jink save is a ravenwing only rule. it doesnt give any evidence to support this or state its origin though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3098332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azatoth Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I wouldn't say Tyranids need allies beyond more Tyranids. After all, the buffs to Monstrous Creatures and flying Monstrous Creatures and so on are going to make them a whole lot more useful. You'll probably even see Harpies used. [gasp] What buffs please? The loss of the +2D6 armor penetration bonus? The change in furious charge to A+1? The only interesting thing rumor I have read insofar is that Beasts will not get an I reduction while charging into cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3098343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Springemann Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 umm how about losing half of your attacks to have strength 10 that is kinda of buff but you might be one of those players that see anything you have to give up to gain something as a punishment rather then a buff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3098537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Rat Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Morning brothers, according to beasts of war website the jink save is a ravenwing only rule. it doesnt give any evidence to support this or state its origin though... There is overwhelming evidence from a number of sources that the 'jink' rule is a USR (universal special rule) which covers ALL bikes unless specified otherwise in the individual unit's entry. With all the evidence available it would mean that unless they specifically changed the way OUR bikes work in a new DA FAQ, the following would happen: Our bikes ALWAYS have a 5+ invulnerable save, even when not turbo-boosting. Their invulnerable save of 3+ when turbo-boosting will be downgraded to a 4+ 'jink' save. Am I correct in this interpretation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3098883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayJ Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Bikes and Skimmers all have Jink, which gives a 5+ cover save if you move at all. Turbo Boosting/Flat Out increases Jink save by +1, and so does Skilled Rider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Bikes and Skimmers all have Jink, which gives a 5+ cover save if you move at all. Turbo Boosting/Flat Out increases Jink save by +1, and so does Skilled Rider. So a bike sitting still gets a 5+, and moving flat out gets a 4+? And a skilled rider bike (ravenwing) gets a 4+ and moving flat out gets a 3+? That makes this slightly less outrageous, if true. At that point, my only beef is the theft of the term "jink." Unless...can C:UM get skilled rider bikes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayJ Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 A bike sitting still gets only its armor save and cover save from terrain. A bike moving at any speed gets 5+, and a bike turbo boosting gets 4+. Dark Eldar Reavers have skilled rider, so they get an extra +1 (so 4+ when moving and 3+ flat out). Unless they errata us for 6th Edition to have it, Ravenwing does not have Skilled Rider Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 RayJ, Did you get your rule book early? VH Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 A bike sitting still gets only its armor save and cover save from terrain. A bike moving at any speed gets 5+, and a bike turbo boosting gets 4+. Dark Eldar Reavers have skilled rider, so they get an extra +1 (so 4+ when moving and 3+ flat out). Unless they errata us for 6th Edition to have it, Ravenwing does not have Skilled Rider Not only that ( I confirm RayJ's)... Bikes don't have scout anymore...not in the BGB at least. Relentless, Jinx and Thunder of Wrath. Oh, and toughness is 5 now (not 4(5) ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Springemann Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So we are losing scout and we may not get skilled riders. So why are my bikers 120pts. for three? Don't tell me its because they have teleport homers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So we are losing scout and we may not get skilled riders. So why are my bikers 120pts. for three? Don't tell me its because they have teleport homers. Don't worry, I'm sure that issue will be adressed either by FAQ ou codex or something. Of course one may have to endure the short end of the stick for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3099966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So we are losing scout and we may not get skilled riders. So why are my bikers 120pts. for three? Don't tell me its because they have teleport homers. Don't worry, I'm sure that issue will be adressed either by FAQ ou codex or something. Of course one may have to endure the short end of the stick for a while. I agree with Lucifer: we shall wait for FAQs (Sunday?) and see. As you know, we have Games Day here on Sunday...so if you guys want me to make questions, I'll open a thread, print the list and see what I can get! Questions for Spain's GD 2012 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3100030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Topic for discussion: Regular Bikes in 6E do not have Scout. Therefore RW Bikes will no longer have Scout in 6E. For some reason, one unit not having a rule in 6E which it didn't have in 5E means that RW Bikes will also not have that rule which they uniquely have in their codex. Discuss. I'll just stand back and put on this rain slicker, hopefully in time to not be covered in what little gray matter will be scattered from the exploding heads trying to unlock this "Gordian Knot". :P ;) What on earth are you people on about exactly? Basic Bikes never had Scout, only RW Bikes do, so *regular bikes* are losing exactly nothing. The only way RW Bikes will lose Scout is if Scout no longer exists as an USR (apparently it does still exist), or if Scout is removed from RW units in the C: DA 6E FAQ (which isn't likelky). Based on the changes to Bikes in the 6E BRB, RW bikes lose nothing, but gain a base T5, Jink (5++ save when moving normally, 4++ when turbo-boosting), and Hammer of Wrath (every model in the unit gets 1 free Att at Init 10 when Assaulting; jump pack units also get this rule). And, in C: DA, RW still have Scout: "6E Scout: infantry, artillery, walkers, and MCs may redeploy within 6"; others redeploy within 12". Must remain 12" away from enemies. Cannot charge in first turn. Otherwise the same (I believe)." Oh no! Cry me a river! <_< 12" redeploy is going to be pretty nice! :D Okay, so RW are still overpriced compared to other bikes, but hey, at least this salves the wounds of that a bit. So, unbunch all of your panties until we actually see a C: DA 6E FAQ, because Scout is still in the 6E BRB and the RW still have the Scout rule, because it didn't suddenly vanish from my codex and I am willing to bet that it didn't suddenly vanish from any of yours either. Look for the C: DA 6E FAQ, and extricate heads from butts in the meantime. ;) ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3100041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 This is what happens when the rulebook isn't out for all and speculation is rampant. :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3100060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 This is what happens when the rulebook isn't out for all and speculation is rampant. :whistling: Some of us have had it for 2 days...and we're still trying to figure out some stuff (just wait until you see wound allocation in the shooting phase...nightmare). IMO, the ravenwing is easy. Does the codex say we have scout? Don't remember TBH, but it does, end discussion: we have scout. If we don't, jinx, relentless and hammer of wrath. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3100072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_angel Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Don't worry Tanhausen - the scout SR is in the codex. Our Ravenwing should be fine! R Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254600-jink-appears-to-be-in-6th-ed/page/2/#findComment-3100117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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