Unforgiven2544 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Good Evening Fellow Gamers, So we are now able to take allies with our illustrious First Legion, but that begs the question? Which allies would be best for us? Which are the most fluffy? Which are the most likely to be exploited until a new codex or FAQ renders it irrelevant? Some of the things I am interested in seeing (with varying degrees of exctement): Teleporting Grey Knights homing in on my Ravenwing Squadrons. An Ironclad or Sternguard Squad in Drop Pod with Locator beacon for our Deathwing Assault terminators A Storm Talon providing covering fire with an outflanking Ravenwing Squadron What other combinations can you think of? Very Respectfully, --Unforgiven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepyrous Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 How about some ceap fire support for Deathwing via Imperial Guard Tanks or Vendettas? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...rue&start=6 Here I was going to ask almost the same thing ;) So I guess this is as official as to what the DA will be having for allies. For me, fluff wise, I don't like it. Tau, Necrons, Orcs? Really? So much for the DA hating the xeno. Wei will buddy buddy with them now just like the BA. I liked how in 4th edition we could pick a trait of no allies. I guess this is for the new influx of DA players going to be approaching so they can have their cake and eat it too. If I see any DA players here with allies, I will be shocked since right now, I thought we were almost pure to fluff when we play. Most of us don't play to win but for fun and fluff. So if I see any DA here with allies, all I can say is *cough cough* Fallen. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 For me, fluff wise, I don't like it. Tau, Necrons, Orcs? Really? So much for the DA hating the xeno. Wei will buddy buddy with them now just like the BA. I liked how in 4th edition we could pick a trait of no allies. Never mind the xenos: who amongst the Unforgiven is going to submit to mind-scrubbing after a joint operation with the GKs? I'd've thought that the Allies matrix from Apocalypse would have been the starting point for 40k allies - i.e. no non-Imperial allies for any SM forces (I know that it's not quite as strict as that, but still). Honestly, it's enough to make you think that GW don't read their own fluff. Er, oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven2544 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 In the interest of Full Disclosure: All of my astartes are Dark Angels or Successor chapters. But I have built up my successors with different codex books. Angels of Redemption = Blood Angels Angels of Vengeance = Black Templars Disciples of Caliban = Space Marines (White Scar Flavored) Consecrators = Chaos Angels of Absolution = Space Marines (Vanilla) (These guys started as a DIY Successor Chapter... but I just went full tilt after a couple units) I cling to my purity of theme. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...rue&start=6 Here I was going to ask almost the same thing ;) So I guess this is as official as to what the DA will be having for allies. For me, fluff wise, I don't like it. Tau, Necrons, Orcs? Really? So much for the DA hating the xeno. Wei will buddy buddy with them now just like the BA. I liked how in 4th edition we could pick a trait of no allies. I guess this is for the new influx of DA players going to be approaching so they can have their cake and eat it too. If I see any DA players here with allies, I will be shocked since right now, I thought we were almost pure to fluff when we play. Most of us don't play to win but for fun and fluff. So if I see any DA here with allies, all I can say is *cough cough* Fallen. :P So you face a full on Tyranid invasion, and you can obtain victory by halting your campaign with the Eldar and co- defeat the tyranids which will devour you both, and you choose not to. Allow the entire sector to be devoured???? You can always continue hostilities when it's over. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 So you face a full on Tyranid invasion, and you can obtain victory by halting your campaign with the Eldar and co- defeat the tyranids which will devour you both, and you choose not to. Allow the entire sector to be devoured???? A full-on 1,500 point Tyranid invasion? Sounds like a contradiction in terms ;) To me this sort of thing is entirely justifiable, fluff-wise, for an Apocalypse sized battle but less so for the sort of small-scale engagements you get in 40k, so it doesn't really seem appropriate to have such a free-for-all within the main rules. It just smacks of cherry-picking. Codex DA assault squads too expensive? Just take a couple of BA squads and Dante. Psychic powers a bit lacklustre? No problem, we'll just call up Eldrad and whatever cannon fodder we need to make this a legal selection (or some Rangers, maybe?). They might as well have gone the whole hog and allowed us to ally with Chaos as well: a Bloodthirster or Lord of Change would pep up the Unforgiven a little, wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 A full-on 1,500 point Tyranid invasion? Sounds like a contradiction in terms The table top is often a backdrop to things going on in fluff. Or am I mistaken? That 1500 pt force is a small fragment of what is going on in the bigger picture. Right? It just smacks of cherry-picking. cherry picking would be correct if there was no restrictions. However you must pick 1HQ and 1 troop. Then you may pick one option from the other slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Anders Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I will never ally myself with orks, but I'm not opposed to "direct" them into our enemies or using them as Meat Shields................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I will never ally myself with orks, but I'm not opposed to "direct" them into our enemies or using them as Meat Shields................. The emperor would surely approve of allowing the "allies" to show their worth by taking a few casualties for the Adeptus Astartes. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepyrous Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 It just smacks of cherry-picking. Codex DA assault squads too expensive? Just take a couple of BA squads and Dante. Psychic powers a bit lacklustre? No problem, we'll just call up Eldrad and whatever cannon fodder we need to make this a legal selection (or some Rangers, maybe?). They might as well have gone the whole hog and allowed us to ally with Chaos as well: a Bloodthirster or Lord of Change would pep up the Unforgiven a little, wouldn't they? I hope it won´t go thus far, cause that would really destroy the whole game essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So you face a full on Tyranid invasion, and you can obtain victory by halting your campaign with the Eldar and co- defeat the tyranids which will devour you both, and you choose not to. Allow the entire sector to be devoured???? We've never needed allies to do our work for us, and we don't plan on starting now. Go on, make friends with xenos. Come back after you find out they had planned to cull your forces so that you'd be rebuilding a century later when they run amok throughout your recruiting worlds, because a millennium later you'd be the spearhead of a campaign against their craftworld. We're alone in the galaxy, and we cope with it. As we always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 It just smacks of cherry-picking. Codex DA assault squads too expensive? Just take a couple of BA squads and Dante. Psychic powers a bit lacklustre? No problem, we'll just call up Eldrad and whatever cannon fodder we need to make this a legal selection (or some Rangers, maybe?). They might as well have gone the whole hog and allowed us to ally with Chaos as well: a Bloodthirster or Lord of Change would pep up the Unforgiven a little, wouldn't they? I hope it won´t go thus far, cause that would really destroy the whole game essentially. No, it won't. From my understanding loyals can't team up with chaos in any flavor. Gotta wait for the full reveal before jumping to too many conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 A full-on 1,500 point Tyranid invasion? Sounds like a contradiction in terms The table top is often a backdrop to things going on in fluff. Or am I mistaken? That 1500 pt force is a small fragment of what is going on in the bigger picture. Right? Well, yes and no. Depends on how big the picture needs to be to fit in the small part of it that any given 40k battle represents. It just smacks of cherry-picking. cherry picking would be correct if there was no restrictions. However you must pick 1HQ and 1 troop. Then you may pick one option from the other slots. Oh, I think the examples I gave are examples of cherry-picking even with restrictions. It's essentially carte blanche to pillage other armies for stuff you can't get in yours, which sort of defeats the point of having distinct forces in the first place - at least from a gameplay point of view. All that said: if you want to go down the allies route, then good luck to you - whatever floats your boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepyrous Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 It just smacks of cherry-picking. Codex DA assault squads too expensive? Just take a couple of BA squads and Dante. Psychic powers a bit lacklustre? No problem, we'll just call up Eldrad and whatever cannon fodder we need to make this a legal selection (or some Rangers, maybe?). They might as well have gone the whole hog and allowed us to ally with Chaos as well: a Bloodthirster or Lord of Change would pep up the Unforgiven a little, wouldn't they? I hope it won´t go thus far, cause that would really destroy the whole game essentially. No, it won't. From my understanding loyals can't team up with chaos in any flavor. Gotta wait for the full reveal before jumping to too many conclusions. Don´t get me wrong here. Traitor Guard and fallen ones would fit quite nicely fluff wise but i´m talking about cherry-picking. I just do´t like the idea that you can shore up any holes in your faction, because that is what makes the difference between the armys. When everyone get´s access to everything (just to exaggerate it a bit here ;-) I think it would be a bit boring ;) :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Anders Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 All I'm gonna do is borrow un-used units from my friends against my friends. XD Plus I have way to many Elites to use at once so I'll probably let my friends borrow them too. I don't have to pay a dime and more Unforgiven are on the board, everybody wins(except our foes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The thing is, even if you have to pick one HQ and one Troop choice before picking an Elite or FA or HS, poeple will still be cherry picking (as was said before) the best of the units. Mind you it will be Expensive to get that Elite choice or what not, but still those other codicies have great choices to choose from, HQ or Terminator Troops from GK or SW. *edit* darn, I hit the enter button too fast and now forgot what I wanted to say. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The thing is, even if you have to pick one HQ and one Troop choice before picking an Elite or FA or HS, poeple will still be cherry picking (as was said before) the best of the units. Mind you it will be Expensive to get that Elite choice or what not, but still those other codicies have great choices to choose from, HQ or Terminator Troops from GK or SW. But they are not free. If you have a dex with many options you may be hurting yourself. Also we don't know what further restrictions having allies will mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmo Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I have got to agree with BigGumbo,WatchCaptainAzrael and Zepyrous on this I will not be using allies in my army because I wanted to collect DA for their fluff and accept the choices (good and bad) we have in our codex (and before any one mentions the Raven - it just looks good but I won't be playing it :( ). Now we will get the option of playing a mixed force of us + A.N.other - So I can take 1 HQ and 2 Troop DAs and 1 HQ and 1 Troop from the other and then cherry pick the remainder for their strengths - then why collect a pure DA force? I collect Tau as well so I could have a XV8 Commander, 6 Firewarriors then have 3 XV88 Broadsides (1 Heavy choice) and just use Belial and Assault termies for some serious CC. Just a quick example. As the DA are a secretive Chapter with our own goals, Allies to me do not make much sense. Is it just me being sceptical or is this GW trying to shift more model lines ;) This choice of allies would make sense for doubles teams or as a guide for sides for apoc. battles but not so much for individual forces. My bit said - stands back, puts on body-armour and waits for incoming fire :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 One thing I can see for us DA, is if we are going to use Allies, we some of us be doing it for fluff reasons? I mean, before we get a new codex we are still stuck with our 4th edition codex. So since (I forget who did this) used the SW codex to represent the DA since it was more fluffy to do so, will some of you being doing this? They will still be DA minis but using rules and units from a different codex, NOT to become over powered but to become more fluffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Dark Angels surely ally with others, meaning they fight alongside other forces in the same places, to achieves similar goals. Doesn't mean they have a picnic together afterwards and get matching tattoos or anything. They will almost always just happen to fighting alongside one another. Dark Angels will willingly fight alongside ANY Imperial forces- even the Inquisition. They will fight alongside those forces to achieve Imperial goals because it is their duty to do so, and they usually will do that most of the time. They will do so as efficiently as possible, as then they can then get back to pursuing the Chapter's agenda. Reluctant allies would be Tau and (Dark)Eldar, as at least those races are intelligent, can be reasoned with, and allied with to a greater common purpose (at least temporarily). Then there are Orks. They don't really stop fighting long enough to even be able to talk to them, let alone come to any sort of cooperative agreement versus a common foe. Nazdreg would be one of the few exceptions there, but even still I think of Ork allies as coming about like this: The Dark Angels are fighting against the Orks, but then a Necron Tomb Ship erupts from the ground, or a Tyranid Norn Ship cruises into orbit and the mycetic spores begin showering down, and the Dark Angels and Orks go Holy @#$!", and both decide that the new enemy is a bigger problem than the other is. Alliances with non-Imperials will be freakishly rare occasions, more so for the Dark Angels, but it has happened among various Imperial forces. Forces that have never shown any inclination to ally, or that the Chapter has a particular history of hatred of, would not be allied with at all, meaning Necrons, Tyranids, and Chaos. "Allies" is really intended to sell more armies by getting us to put the hook in our own mouths by getting a small Allied force...which then becomes a full-blown additional army as we realize, "Gee, I really only need to get X to have a legal army for my Allies." They should have been doing this all along. And, of course, people everywhere are getting stupid over the various "ludicrous" Allies combinations. What Allies will be best for is to keep doubles games from being too unbelievable. They will also be great for special scenarios and battles built upon story lines, not that I have ever felt the need to ask permission to color outside the lines to make a game what I want it to be anyways, but some people need to be told that it is okay to do so. Now they have. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 ..., not that I have ever felt the need to ask permission to colour outside the lines to make a game what I want it to be anyways, but some people need to be told that it is okay to do so. Now they have. :( Awesome clarity of thought. Me neither, but those players who have joined since the crazy hazy early dayz seem to be a little less 'permissive', maybe the tournament scene has coloured their perceptions for better or worse. I'll be using the allies as hard as I can, I'll be allying with Consecrators, Angels of Vengeance, Angels of Absolution, Guardians of the Covenant, Angels of Redemption and The Disciples of Caliban as often as I can :D Maybe others if our new dex allows...... Seriously though, =I= and the IG might get a look in for some modelling opportunities too. 2c stobz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidlessPraetor Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I *might* end up using my guard as an ally in a game, but mainly because it's something I've wanted to do for ages, and no one around here plays apoc for me to be able to do it. As far as the fluff goes, I don't see any other faction being acceptable for the Dark Angels. I mean how many other chapters have ongoing tiffs with another (Lion's vs Wolves). That kind of slaps the DA fluff in the face, back in 3rd when there was an ally part of the BRB, Dark angels weren't allowed to use it. No vindicare assassins, preachers, or any other inquisitorial @#$#%^ in my army, I don't trust them B!@#!@rds! On a side note, the one thing that worries me the most about the ally thing isn't who DA players would take alongside them, it's who's going to take Dark Angels alongside for our scoring terminators for the troop slot... I really cross my fingers that they don't allow DA alliances with the new 'dex. We're first among many for a reason: we don't need their guns, we've got plenty of our own =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 As long as its about 2vs2 players, np with allies...otherwise, seeing the allies table, then i have to think about a friend(powergamer) and how much armies he has and i could go vomit! Just got a small IG fire support cannonfodder i may use....but this was for apocalypse, i wonder if they change that too?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Anders Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Wont it be awkward if you see a Belial clone Leading Deathwing against your own o.O I couldn't actually imagine a better way to piss myself off........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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