Roland Durendal Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Just out of curiosity to see how the advent of 6E will change or alter your lists, including allies. Personally, the big things I've been toying around with recently is: 1). Running Njal and a second Rune Priest - basically Njal so I get all the SW powers, and the reg Priest so I can get the new Divination power. I think dual RP's of some sort may end up being a standard in many pure SW lists for this reason. 2). WG Termies and a Land Raider - now that most PW are AP3, Terms just got a whole lot more survivable. Granted ours are still expensive compared to other Marine armies, I feel even a small 4-5 man detachment will be a solid unit. Same goers with a LR. While overpriced, the addition of Hull Points means in one sense they are slightly more survivable - S8 (or S6 with rending) already have a very slim chance of getting the "6"'s they need to do damage, and now that glances just mean losing a Hull Point...I see LR's making a comeback. 3). Lone Wolves - I've gone back and forth with LW's. I love them, but always find them hard to fit in. Now with a 2d6 assault move, it'll be a lot easier getting him "stuck in". And if you put him in TDA with a SS....he's nigh unstoppable with a 2+/3++/FNP/EW. That 5+ FNP save will be solid, as the only reliable way to knock him out is through 2X toughness weapons...which happen to be weapons you'd want to aim at vehicles. Right now I'm moving away from my normal "Thor" build (TDA/SS/TH) and thinking the most optimal choice would be TDA/SS/FW with some melta bombs. 4). GK Allies - I've been thinking that a cheaper alternative to WG Terms in a LR, would be to just take a GK GM with crazy 'nade, and a small GKT squad in a LR. NFW are AP2, and with the grenades and Hammerhand, they'd be a tough counter-assault unit. 5). IG Allies - I can use my Elysian AirCav army with my Wolves. I foresee shenanigans in my future with Vendettas. So guys, with 6E coming out in a few days and many rules already out in the open, what units have you begun thinking of toying with/using and how will your lists change? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 We'll have to see where the allies rules go, I can see them being used in bigger games but below 2000pts I suspect most people will just use their main Codex. Rune Priests are even harder now, and I might even find room for a second now - Divination on Grey Hunters packs will be obscene. Speaking of which, Grey Hunters remain solid and it looks as if the main thrust of the scoring will remain on troops choices. I think our biggest challenge will come from the changes to vehicles, Rhino rushing is going to be very tough with hull points. On the other hand, Land Raiders are even better... So swings and roundabouts. I'll probably go full Drop Pod with 40 Grey Hunters, backed up by Long Fangs and Skyclaws with Rune/Wolf Priests to run down Tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 We'll have to see where the allies rules go, I can see them being used in bigger games but below 2000pts I suspect most people will just use their main Codex. Rune Priests are even harder now, and I might even find room for a second now - Divination on Grey Hunters packs will be obscene. Speaking of which, Grey Hunters remain solid and it looks as if the main thrust of the scoring will remain on troops choices. I think our biggest challenge will come from the changes to vehicles, Rhino rushing is going to be very tough with hull points. On the other hand, Land Raiders are even better... So swings and roundabouts. I'll probably go full Drop Pod with 40 Grey Hunters, backed up by Long Fangs and Skyclaws with Rune/Wolf Priests to run down Tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Wolf Lord kitted out specifically for IC hunting. WG in TDA to support the Wolf Lord. Lascannon Long Fangs. Rune Priests as a mainstay in forward Grey Hunter units. Plasma Guns in Grey Hunter units with Rune Priests. Flamers in Grey Hunter units without Rune Priests. IG allies specifically for the Vendetta. Leman Russ tanks for fluffy fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'll be ditching a lot of my mech in favor of foot squads w/ Terminator WG. Skyclaws with a WP will be something for me as well as hoping for the warlord roll that give me outflank for my wolf lord and his unit. The way hull points work might mean that my last hurrah with 5th (a tournament this sunday) might mean the end of Bjorn in my lists, but we'll see. I'm thinking the new power that lets me snap fire at bs will be good for my longfangs. My original plan for allies is not longer warranted, as Furious Charge no longer benefits from +1 I, so I'll save some points there. will be beefing my scout squads, with the changes to the rules of their options, as well as acute senses now granting a reroll on outflanking. Dunno if I'll take my raider and a lot of fists; depends on how many terminators show up in my local meta... might be I just buy a lot of power mauls for bagging vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'll be ditching a lot of my mech in favor of foot squads w/ Terminator WG. Skyclaws with a WP will be something for me as well as hoping for the warlord roll that give me outflank for my wolf lord and his unit. The way hull points work might mean that my last hurrah with 5th (a tournament this sunday) might mean the end of Bjorn in my lists, but we'll see. I'm thinking the new power that lets me snap fire at bs will be good for my longfangs. My original plan for allies is not longer warranted, as Furious Charge no longer benefits from +1 I, so I'll save some points there. will be beefing my scout squads, with the changes to the rules of their options, as well as acute senses now granting a reroll on outflanking. Dunno if I'll take my raider and a lot of fists; depends on how many terminators show up in my local meta... might be I just buy a lot of power mauls for bagging vehicles. This actually raises a question: do mauls work like they did back in 2nd ED? (i.e. PW that have the TH "stun" effect) or are they totally different now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 With the changes to Power weapon types, i wonder if the benefits will stack. Ie Frost axe vs Power Axe? or would the benefit just be we strike at normal I? I'm actually considering a pair of drop-pod terminator Wolf guard packs to cause havoc in the enemy deployment zones. Possible have one with Njal in it. Also, Drop pod LFs and a RP (divination) for snap fire shenanigans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I expect bastions to be a standard unless we have something else to give us AA abilities. However I expect that most tournaments won't allow scenery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 This actually raises a question: do mauls work like they did back in 2nd ED? (i.e. PW that have the TH "stun" effect) or are they totally different now? As far as I know, mauls are now +2 str, ap4 and that's it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 will be beefing my scout squads, with the changes to the rules of their options, as well as acute senses now granting a reroll on outflanking. Mind revealing what changes those might be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'll definitely keep my 45 fenrisians wolves... I may actually contemplate using more (troop choices with wulfen vow) as they're already amazing at tying up units and can massacre anything lesser than a marine stat line while being cheap in point costs. Also, with the new hull points rule, they'll decimate rhinos and anything that has AV 10 rear sans dreadnoughts of course. I'll keep my 13th company themed army with the incorporations of BA allies to use as death company for my wulfen unit. This nasty squad will shred anything it its path. I'll miss the speed, but maybe I'll just spend the points and get them jump packs, not sure yet how I'll kit them out. Mephiston is my favorite special character in the game, had it not been for my older cousin choosing blood angels first, I'd have been playing them as my main army and space wolves second... having said this, I'd like to work him into my list, possibly leading the wulfen but modeled after a more feral wolf lord looking model with mephiston's stats and rules. I'm still not sure about my vehicles... I love rhinos, always have, always will, but they're just not the movable terrain they once were, and if I add more fenrisian wolves, wulfen squads, TWC, I could just keep my grey hunters on the back lines and support fire rather than join the melee fight. Also, I love Vindicators, but again, the hull points rule kinda makes me second guess this, sure AV 13 will be a tough nut to glance, but I may opt for long fangs. So doing a quick rundown, I could very well have a vehicle-less army, which would be extremely 13th company themed which would appeal to my hobbyist taste, however my tactical taste says it'll need much more skill without the vehicles... and without the scouts move that made the 13th company so dangerous, I won't have that early game move... Oh, also I'll dust off a rune priest of course for Divination with my grey hunters in the back. :) -edit- I just had another thought that would help with my movement, which would be drop pods, and for fluff wise, just use it more as they're sneaking around on the battlefield, unseen from the enemy while they hunt. They then come back to the fight for the kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Just making sure I'm reading this correctly: from what the rumors say, Rage (implied BC's have it instead of Berserk Charge) means only a +2 atks on the charge. Did we just lose the 4 dice per BC charge feature? I hope this is not how things are to work, as this will only further gimp BC's when compared to GH's in 6th. I'd love to be wrong about this change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Just making sure I'm reading this correctly: from what the rumors say, Rage (implied BC's have it instead of Berserk Charge) means only a +2 atks on the charge. Did we just lose the 4 dice per BC charge feature? I hope this is not how things are to work, as this will only further gimp BC's when compared to GH's in 6th. I'd love to be wrong about this change. i thought BC got 4 attacks on the charge due to 1A base, 1 for two CC weapons, and 2 for charging (berserk charge), if all theyve done is just change the name to rage and it still adds +2 attacks on the charge instead of 1, theyll be still getting 4 attacks on the charge surely? havent read the new rules yet, but is it true that preferred enemy now affects shooting as well as CC? If so i can see my 'wolf priest in a jump pack leading a squad of skyclaws' squad starting to get more action, skyclaws essentially having twin linked bolt pistols (offsets their BS3) and a potential 12" charge is going to be nasty. As would a wolf priest attached to a long fang squad thats taken 'vehicles' as his PE choice. What are the new rules for scouts then, ive only just started playing them anyway, so was going to be using them more, but getting re-rolls on outflank sounds pretty handy :D Allies, im not sure, i think ill end up just buying models on the merit of me liking them and then have a couple games with them in and see how they do :) Sob and IG will probably make an early appearance though :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The prefered enemy rumor is reroll 1s shooting and cc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The prefered enemy rumor is reroll 1s shooting and cc ah really, so for marines now its gonna be more useful for shooting than it is for CC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If runes of warding continue to stack double farseer allies might be popular.... make all your opponents psychic tests on 4d6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I currently have a three rune priest first turn drop pod list and I'm guessing I'll take some of the new powers after I've studied them and the gaps in my list. I think it may still be too early though. Really need to see the book in it's entirety before making decisions. I have the following questions for my list based on rumors: 1. are the old powers still effective (need to read full book) 2. Which of the new powers will fit my list best? 3. Which new powers are utter rubbish? 4. how will I work the warlord rule to the best effect? 5. How will beasts/cavalry work? Is it 3D6 for charge range? 6. Drop Pods Still effective? Disembark change anything? Assumptions: 1. my 2xlas cannon 3xmissles long fang packs should be good to go 2. GH's get a boost even with 24 inch moving and shooting bolters, counter attack and overwatch(even if overwatch is either or with CA) 3. Rune Priests should be even more valuable with negating and performing psychic stuff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I currently have a three rune priest first turn drop pod list and I'm guessing I'll take some of the new powers after I've studied them and the gaps in my list. I think it may still be too early though. Really need to see the book in it's entirety before making decisions. I have the following questions for my list based on rumors: 2. Which of the new powers will fit my list best? 3. Which new powers are utter rubbish? 5. How will beasts/cavalry work? Is it 3D6 for charge range? stuff 3)divination powersa)no cover saves =good b)snap fire at bs- good c) make unit go mad maybe kill itself = good d)reroll reserves and outflank =good 5) 2d6 charge rerolled for fleet 12 move - terrain causes dangerous but not difficult terrain tests These all sound use ful in a drop army to me as 1 has gone unreported I presume that might be duff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Haven't rune priests been nerfed? Don't they only stop psychic powers on a 4 up if they are within 6 inches? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 will be beefing my scout squads, with the changes to the rules of their options, as well as acute senses now granting a reroll on outflanking. Mind revealing what changes those might be? mostly just some versatility type stuff; IE, plasma pistols becoming worth the 15 points due to having a use in CC (that part is still a rumor I can't confirm), but being able to pick my 2 15 point power weapons in the squad means I can really make some harsh backline hits, and while my OBEL rolls are typically spot on, I've lost a couple of games from bad rolls that will happen even less frequently now. getting the warlord power that lets you reroll reserve rolls will help even more in making sure you get what you need, when you need it, where you need it. so yeah... scouts, skyclaws, rune and wolf priests and thunderwolves, longfangs and typhoons, and terminator pack leaders attached to GH packs will all be truly wicked, some even more so than they used to be. I can genuinely see us being one of the few codices that doesn't actually need any allies, even to face down other forces that do contain allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 will be beefing my scout squads, with the changes to the rules of their options, as well as acute senses now granting a reroll on outflanking. Mind revealing what changes those might be? mostly just some versatility type stuff; IE, plasma pistols becoming worth the 15 points due to having a use in CC (that part is still a rumor I can't confirm), but being able to pick my 2 15 point power weapons in the squad means I can really make some harsh backline hits, and while my OBEL rolls are typically spot on, I've lost a couple of games from bad rolls that will happen even less frequently now. getting the warlord power that lets you reroll reserve rolls will help even more in making sure you get what you need, when you need it, where you need it. so yeah... scouts, skyclaws, rune and wolf priests and thunderwolves, longfangs and typhoons, and terminator pack leaders attached to GH packs will all be truly wicked, some even more so than they used to be. I can genuinely see us being one of the few codices that doesn't actually need any allies, even to face down other forces that do contain allies. I'm sure 3++ suggests that that isn't the case Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Haven't rune priests been nerfed? Don't they only stop psychic powers on a 4 up if they are within 6 inches? where did you hear that? unless the (currently unreleased) FAQ that comes on the heels of the rule book nerfs it, the staff still has a 24" range, as it is a codex-specific piece of wargear. BRB<Codex. :P will be beefing my scout squads, with the changes to the rules of their options, as well as acute senses now granting a reroll on outflanking. Mind revealing what changes those might be? mostly just some versatility type stuff; IE, plasma pistols becoming worth the 15 points due to having a use in CC (that part is still a rumor I can't confirm), but being able to pick my 2 15 point power weapons in the squad means I can really make some harsh backline hits, and while my OBEL rolls are typically spot on, I've lost a couple of games from bad rolls that will happen even less frequently now. getting the warlord power that lets you reroll reserve rolls will help even more in making sure you get what you need, when you need it, where you need it. so yeah... scouts, skyclaws, rune and wolf priests and thunderwolves, longfangs and typhoons, and terminator pack leaders attached to GH packs will all be truly wicked, some even more so than they used to be. I can genuinely see us being one of the few codices that doesn't actually need any allies, even to face down other forces that do contain allies. I'm sure 3++ suggests that that isn't the case I'll be disappointed if it doesn't pan out, but it won't change my end result, since the PPs replace PW slots in the scout units anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 where did you hear that? unless the (currently unreleased) FAQ that comes on the heels of the rule book nerfs it, the staff still has a 24" range, as it is a codex-specific piece of wargear. BRB<Codex. :P Sort of extrapulated from - "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker. Yes because a 6+ is reliable.- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer. Was thinking that because the psychic hood has been nerfed so massively runic staff would have to be as well Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 hmmm... it's possible, but then again when they nerfed the typical hood to 24", the DA codex still benefited from a field hood, albeit at a Ld 9. Will just have to wait and see on that one, I suppose... It is a little disconcerting, though. :P On that note, our 5pt talismans will become beefcake in comparison. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I have heard that 6" rumor for hoods not runic weapons i think the potential bonuses of the new powers and old ones will out weigh that plus it means my opponents ability to stop them is much diminished as well With 2+ armour being better in cc runic armour might be quite popular especially if the rumoured closest save in shooting is used rule is true terminator pack leaders might could be handy that case too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254694-6th-ed-and-how-we-see-it-changing-our-lists/#findComment-3095566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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