6th ED and How We See It Changing Our Lists

[Wispy]

Wait what... rending simply gives you AP2 now? Seriously? That makes MOTW and TWC INSANE. Those of you who are saying this... did you sight the book? I just wanna be sure this is verified and not a rumour.

You still have to roll a 6 to get AP2. :devil:

[Fytharin]

Wait what... rending simply gives you AP2 now? Seriously? That makes MOTW and TWC INSANE. Those of you who are saying this... did you sight the book? I just wanna be sure this is verified and not a rumour.

 

Yes it says it's resolved at AP2.

[skeletoro]

Oh, right. Was wondering about that...

 

Although Frost Axes are almost completely worthless now, Power Axes might actually be kinda useful. I'd consider giving one to a grey hunter instead of a power fist. When combined with a bolt pistol, it's better at killing termies than a power fist. It only wounds 80% as often per attack, but you're typically making 2 or 3 attacks instead of 1 or 2 (so, worst case scenario for a grey hunter, you're making 50% more attacks).

 

Of course, it's not great for penetrating vehicle armour, and doesn't insta-kill characters.

[Grimtooth]

Missile launchers very clearly do NOT come with flakk missiles default. Please read that part again in the book, it is not rocket science, it is spelled out in one simple sentence.

 

That said, boy do I wish that they DID some with flakk missiles...

 

DV8 explained it quite nicely above. As of midnight last night Long Fangs were able to toss up flak all day and night if they desire.

[Grimtooth]

Changes:

 

I think Lukas should be in every BC build as both his Last Laugh and cloak are working fully as intended for issuing challenges.

 

Wolf Lords are not limited to TWM for mobility anymore with bikes not giving true toughness 5 and not 4(5).

 

Sky Claws and Swift Claws are now fully viable.

 

Wolf Priests can now be part of a successful build.

 

Iron Priests have a use beyond just TWM and cyber wolves.

 

Loganwing just got very scary.

 

Loganwing + WG on bikes packs + Swift Claws just got even more scary.

 

Space Wolves may be the only SM chapter without a single need for allies.

[Lykos]

If missile launchers can use flakk then does that mean dreadnoughts can too?

[Grimtooth]

If missile launchers can use flakk then does that mean dreadnoughts can too?

 

I am not getting up to check but is it a dreadnought missile launcher or just a missile launcher. If the former, no. If the latter, yes.

[Griz]

If missile launchers can use flakk then does that mean dreadnoughts can too?

 

On pg 415 of the rulebook under the Weapons reference page Missile launchers have the 3 missile types so if model/dreadnought has a "missile launcher" then it can select to fire that type of missile. Seems Cyclone missile launchers don't benefit from the addition of the Flakk missile option though.

[Grimtooth]

If missile launchers can use flakk then does that mean dreadnoughts can too?

 

On pg 415 of the rulebook under the Weapons reference page Missile launchers have the 3 missile types so if model/dreadnought has a "missile launcher" then it can select to fire that type of missile. Seems Cyclone missile launchers don't benefit from the addition of the Flakk missile option though.

 

As others do not as well,

 

CML

Typhoon Missile Launchers

Whatever Whirlwind Missile Launchers are called.

Hunter Seeker Missile Launcher

Havoc Missile Launcher.

[Lykos]

So then I have no real need to use allies or fortifications. We have three choices that we can use to shoot down fliers.

Long Fangs

Dreadnoughts

Scouts

Sorry I need to get the rule book. Its been way to many years for me to even remember the rules from second edition.

[Simo429]

If missile launchers have flak why use the phrace upgrade?

[frostclaw222]

Let's bear in mind that supposedly the rulebook says flakk is an upgrade that may be bought for certain units with missile launchers, then apparently does not detail what those units are, nor the price for the upgrade.

 

DV8 is either correct, and that language is an artifact from an earlier version of the rules that was missed in editing, or the full story has yet to be told.

 

But, yeah, Long Fangs with missile launchers, please. Plus five missiles per round per pack will probably do quite a number on hull points, if applied properly.

 

I can still see Wolves using fortifications at times. To be honest, the interceptor and skyfire guns are nice, and they don't take up a slot that other stuff would. Plus, points-wise, they're not that expensive for what you get. Cash-wise, however...yikes.

[Stormbrow II]

Let's bear in mind that supposedly the rulebook says flakk is an upgrade that may be bought for certain units with missile launchers, then apparently does not detail what those units are, nor the price for the upgrade.

That seems to be a common consensus so far so most units can't get them. Yet. Hopefully they'll sort things out soon and clarify whether grunts can get them or not.

[Simo429]

Let's bear in mind that supposedly the rulebook says flakk is an upgrade that may be bought for certain units with missile launchers, then apparently does not detail what those units are, nor the price for the upgrade.

 

DV8 is either correct, and that language is an artifact from an earlier version of the rules that was missed in editing, or the full story has yet to be told.

 

But, yeah, Long Fangs with missile launchers, please. Plus five missiles per round per pack will probably do quite a number on hull points, if applied properly.

 

I can still see Wolves using fortifications at times. To be honest, the interceptor and skyfire guns are nice, and they don't take up a slot that other stuff would. Plus, points-wise, they're not that expensive for what you get. Cash-wise, however...yikes.

Agree with this, it may well turn out that Wolves and everyone else get access to missile launchers with flak as standard but at the moment there isn't the clarity to know.

[eyeslikethunder]

Let's bear in mind that supposedly the rulebook says flakk is an upgrade that may be bought for certain units with missile launchers, then apparently does not detail what those units are, nor the price for the upgrade.

 

DV8 is either correct, and that language is an artifact from an earlier version of the rules that was missed in editing, or the full story has yet to be told.

 

But, yeah, Long Fangs with missile launchers, please. Plus five missiles per round per pack will probably do quite a number on hull points, if applied properly.

 

I can still see Wolves using fortifications at times. To be honest, the interceptor and skyfire guns are nice, and they don't take up a slot that other stuff would. Plus, points-wise, they're not that expensive for what you get. Cash-wise, however...yikes.

Knowing GW they will let everyone buy the fortifications for a year or so then say oh yeah everyone has flakk free/ they cost 1pt per model

 

How many of those guns can you buy in your fort slot

My main worry would be playing 9 Vendetta/ valkyrie list without flakk. All they have do is target the fort till dead them they would have nearly free rein for the rest of the game

[dswanick]

Space Wolves may be the only SM chapter without a single need for allies.

Well, we still need to pay about 115pts in order to field our Squadron of Leman Russ Exterminators. It'll be nice to get that unit dusted off and out of the bowels of the fang. :)

[Canis Majoris]

Anyone else notice that 5's to hit in CC is back? :) ( did it actually leave i can't remember now, if not i feel a lil silly lol )

 

wont make a dif to most units but with some using really high ws...5's to hit is a biatch!!

 

Greater daemons...i'm also a nid player so now any space marine with a power fist // TH needs 5's to hit my swarmlord :(

 

Unless h'es a Space wolf of course as we only need 3's ;)

 

But its worth making a note of espesially playing against a ws3 army.

 

I's feel really sorry for IG vs nids or eldar / Dark eldar...anything ws7 which i think is pretty much all there chars special or otherwise....5's to hit...

 

Also..i think the role of scouts is going to change now from the suicide tank killers...to the highly tactical and reliable fortification harasment squad!

They deploy aegis defence line or a bastion to plop a heavy weapons team in...your scouts which thanks to being able to reroll for outflanking are even more likly to appear behind enemy lines, are going to have to be dealt with by something or they can kiss that bastion bye bye. Also ! they wont get the covor save from an aegis defence line from directly behind! but they will soon learn to make it a square to counter out scouts, but that makes it take up less room and bunch them up inside it great for templates and blasts. See! scouts are still wonderful :)

 

 

2 units of 10 scouts just popping up within range of the fortification armed to the teeth for blowing big things up !

 

Can't see anything wrong with that :)

 

But with the new 6" rules for exiting vehicles...if people start taking fortifications alot i can see a rise in the number of multi-melta podding drednoughts...not to mention a rise is the sales of the anti aircraft gun arms that forgeworld sell :)

[frostclaw222]

I think Wolf Scouts are going to be more accurately depicted on the field. Sure, we lose that kamikaze strike, but if used more judiciously, they get a lot nastier in the long run. Additionally, I think we'll see diversity in scout kits. I mean, most folks scoffed at the idea of Wolf Scouts ever taking sniper rifles. Now, they've got a reason to. And, heck, if they can buy the skyfire upgrade to flakk missiles, you might even put a missile launcher one on the field for once, just for power projection. Sure, the Long Fangs will do the majority of the anti-air duty, but having that extra missile somewhere forward of their position to plink that last hull point on something scooting for repairs or rearm before the last run...might be useful.

 

One thing we're going to have to learn to anticipate, however, is the result of all this surface-to-air missile fire. The first time you shoot down your opponent's aircraft and it zooms on into your firing line, you're going to learn to think twice. ;)

[DV8]

While the format (currently) is a little confusing, with the Weapons Section (with rules) and the curious use of the phrase "Upgrade" as well as only listing specifically "Missile Launchers" (with no mention of things like Cyclones, Typhoons, Eldar Missile Launchers, Havoc Missile Launchers, etc.), and then having the Appendix 2 state that Missile Launchers have the option for Frag, Krak and Flakk.

 

However, you have to bear in mind that the Rulebook is for a new edition. Entirely, and none of the special rules carry over from the old edition. Only what is listed in the new rulebook are valid, and until all the old Codices have been released in 6th Edition (everything is currently 5th Edition or older), there needs to be some stop-gap solution to bring all the other books to speed and streamlined for the new rules.

 

That's where the Appendix II a the back of the book comes into play. Importantly for units/vehicles, it lists what categories of models they fall under (and thereby what rules dictate/govern how they behave in a game), how many Hull Points a vehicle gets, etc. The weapons section also covers all existing melee and ranged weapons in the game, for every codex. It's pretty clear that the intent that everybody is going to have to continuously reference the Appendix II for updated stats and rules on everything.

 

And listed in plain sight in the Appendix is that Missile Launchers get Frag, Krak and Flakk standard. That means any unit in the game that has the option to take a Missile Launcher has access to a Skyfire Weapon (Tactical Squads, Scout Squads, Devastator Squads (of any flavor, including Long Fangs), Imperial Guard Infantry/Veteran/Heavy Weapons/Special Weapon teams, Dreadnoughts, etc.)

 

 

DV8

[G. A. K.]

While the format (currently) is a little confusing, with the Weapons Section (with rules) and the curious use of the phrase "Upgrade" as well as only listing specifically "Missile Launchers" (with no mention of things like Cyclones, Typhoons, Eldar Missile Launchers, Havoc Missile Launchers, etc.), and then having the Appendix 2 state that Missile Launchers have the option for Frag, Krak and Flakk.

 

However, you have to bear in mind that the Rulebook is for a new edition. Entirely, and none of the special rules carry over from the old edition. Only what is listed in the new rulebook are valid, and until all the old Codices have been released in 6th Edition (everything is currently 5th Edition or older), there needs to be some stop-gap solution to bring all the other books to speed and streamlined for the new rules.

 

That's where the Appendix II a the back of the book comes into play. Importantly for units/vehicles, it lists what categories of models they fall under (and thereby what rules dictate/govern how they behave in a game), how many Hull Points a vehicle gets, etc. The weapons section also covers all existing melee and ranged weapons in the game, for every codex. It's pretty clear that the intent that everybody is going to have to continuously reference the Appendix II for updated stats and rules on everything.

 

And listed in plain sight in the Appendix is that Missile Launchers get Frag, Krak and Flakk standard. That means any unit in the game that has the option to take a Missile Launcher has access to a Skyfire Weapon (Tactical Squads, Scout Squads, Devastator Squads (of any flavor, including Long Fangs), Imperial Guard Infantry/Veteran/Heavy Weapons/Special Weapon teams, Dreadnoughts, etc.)

 

 

DV8

 

I must completely agree on this, especially after reading the line in the FAQ that states to use the appendix for all weapons that are not listed as different in the FAQ itself. people can argue against logic all they want (GW isn't ligical, blah blah blah) But it seems very clear to me we get the new missle option, period!

 

G

[Wolfsbane]

Really want to get a landspeeder storm for my scouts, but I sure don't want to take a SM HQ or Troop. Poop.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Loganwing just got very scary.

 

I have read most of the rules portion of the new tome, but I don't understand why you say this?? Please explain.

 

Space Wolves may be the only SM chapter without a single need for allies.

 

I agree with the last statement as well, but the fluff factor of running a Leman Russ squadron or a Storm Raven for our own air support is pretty cool. Hell, we can now give our WGTDA FNP with a BA or DA Apothecary!!

 

End of Line

[Lagrath]

And you have your long fangs with flakk missiles

 

No you don't. Flakk missiles are UPGRADES for units that can take them. Until they start FAQing units or releasing a WD article, nobody has access to them yet. All Missile Launchers only get Frag and Krak standard.

 

 

DV8

 

 

Ah! It's like stormshields and DA isn't it?

 

I'm sure that this will be covered in faqs

 

And I don't mind about not to charge con arrival with my scouts, They always killed more shooting than HtH. I like to give them plasma pistols.

 

So I've reread the relevant sections and gone through the Weapons Appendix and I believe I was mistaken.

 

The Missile Launchers heading in the Weaponry section outlines as a blanket Missile Launchers of all kinds, regardless of what the specific name is. This would include Cyclone Missile Launchers and Typhoon Missile launchers, for example.

 

Looking in the Weapons Appendix, it's clearly listed that Cyclones and Typhoons only get Frag and Krak standard, while stock Missile Launchers also get access to Flakk.

 

So Long Fangs DO get Flakk and I've suddenly found an excuse to paint my two 6-strong MissileFang packs...

 

Also, kudos to GW for writing a fairly comprehensive book that seems to leave very few grey areas and unclear sections. Coupled with the new FAQs they've released for every book, it looks like they're really covering all their bases.

 

 

DV8

 

OR missile launchers (or certain units with normal missile launchers) will have an option in future codexes to carry flakk as well, whereas cyclones and typhoons will never have the option to do so, IE, missile launchers have the POSSIBILITY of carrying flakk missiles if your codex specifically allows it in a unit entry, whereas cyclones and typhoons do not. This is very different from missile launchers coming with flakk by default, every time.

[Grimtooth]

Let's bear in mind that supposedly the rulebook says flakk is an upgrade that may be bought for certain units with missile launchers, then apparently does not detail what those units are, nor the price for the upgrade.

 

DV8 is either correct, and that language is an artifact from an earlier version of the rules that was missed in editing, or the full story has yet to be told.

 

But, yeah, Long Fangs with missile launchers, please. Plus five missiles per round per pack will probably do quite a number on hull points, if applied properly.

 

I can still see Wolves using fortifications at times. To be honest, the interceptor and skyfire guns are nice, and they don't take up a slot that other stuff would. Plus, points-wise, they're not that expensive for what you get. Cash-wise, however...yikes.

 

At no time is any form of the word purchase or buy referenced to missile launchers and flakk.

[Simo429]

It annoys me that no one saw this debate coming, one of the most popular options in one of the most popular codices and no one decided how this should be sorted?