6th ED and How We See It Changing Our Lists

[Lord Ragnarok]

So along with WG Termie with SS and thunderhammer, is a WG Termie with SS, combi plasma and mark of the wulfen also viable in a drop pod GH pack? This will give you possible ap2 attacks and a some nice shooting which is almost mandatory in DP packs. Less reliable combat wise but adds shooting which is negated by SS/TH. Cost is the same as the SS/TH WG. (ponders)

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Edit...Wulfen/combi plasma/SS combo is 5 pts more expensive.

[Canis Majoris]

It definatly looks like space wolves aer going to be a more defensive army than ever with this damn overwatch snap firing....yeah its only on 6's or sometimes at full bs...but that still makes it better for us to recieve a charge and shoot then get our counter attack than to charg ein ourselves... unless you have a unit that relys on the charge to gain a bonus like ragnar.

 

My other army is tyranids...(spits)...i give em bolters and chainswords just incase...yeah...

 

But i'm dreading playing my first game with them...i'm gonna get shot to death...and i'll get within charge range and fail totally with every units charging...that random charge distance is going to totally ruin nids.

[skeletoro]

So along with WG Termie with SS and thunderhammer, is a WG Termie with SS, combi plasma and mark of the wulfen also viable in a drop pod GH pack? This will give you possible ap2 attacks and a some nice shooting which is almost mandatory in DP packs. Less reliable combat wise but adds shooting which is negated by SS/TH. Cost is the same as the SS/TH WG. (ponders)

----------------------

 

Edit...Wulfen/combi plasma/SS combo is 5 pts more expensive.

 

Wow... hadn't thought of that one. I made a thread talking about different loadouts and will endeavour to add that one into the comparison table some point over the next 24 hours. Will have to use excel to calculate the probabilities rather than a napkin and calculator...

 

Just let me get this straight though? Mark of the Wulfen is now: d6 attacks (instead of 2 on profile), base str, normal roll to hit, if you roll 6 to wound it's AP2 (otherwise -) and cannot be combined with special weapons unless you have a basic ccw/pistol in your offhand.

[eyeslikethunder]

With FC worse the reasons for charging have reduced but I still see as army that controls the centre of the board rather than board edge hugger

 

A lot of people see worried about snap fire

 

But 10 bolters bs 1 only do about 1 wound to meq

 

Ok 15 lootas I would worried

[Hfran Morkai]

Ooh.

 

Just realised I should totally give my Rune Priest (and any characters I can spend the points on) Runic Armour to give me saves against Power Swords, especially if they stay common.

 

Thinking my first roll for Psychic powers will be on the Telekenisis table, to try and get Gate of Infinity, possibly rolling on the same table again if I don't get it or going for one from Divination.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Ooh.

 

Just realised I should totally give my Rune Priest (and any characters I can spend the points on) Runic Armour to give me saves against Power Swords, especially if they stay common.

 

Thinking my first roll for Psychic powers will be on the Telekenisis table, to try and get Gate of Infinity, possibly rolling on the same table again if I don't get it or going for one from Divination.

 

I'm thinking of turning one of my three RP's into a Termie RP. Roll twice on Biomancy and give him the upgrade for mastery level 2. The other two would stay in PA and use SW powers.

 

I wouldn't focus on getting one power. Just be ready to maximize on whatever you get.

[Hfran Morkai]

I wouldn't focus on getting one power. Just be ready to maximize on whatever you get.

 

Indeed.

 

To be honest I'm not sure if I even particularly want GoI, I mean it just bunches up the unit nicely for someone to drop a large shell on them lol. But the other Telekenisis powers are nice, along with Biomancy. >.>

 

Multiple Rune Priest lists here I come, have two models anyway, both with axes so pretty awesome monster hunters haha.

[Valerian]

Anyone else notice that 5's to hit in CC is back? :) ( did it actually leave i can't remember now, if not i feel a lil silly lol )

 

That's not a change, actually.

 

2 units of 10 scouts just popping up within range of the fortification armed to the teeth for blowing big things up

 

Can't see anything wrong with that :)

 

The thing that is wrong with that, is that now they can't walk on, shoot, and then get themselves into the relative safety of close combat. It isn't so much that they've taken away our ability to kill extra enemy models on the turn they arrive (which also sucks some), it's the fact that they arrive and will now be much more vulnerable than ever before, as they'll be exposed to the firepower of everything left in the enemy backfield.

 

V

[TiguriusX]

2 units of 10 scouts just popping up within range of the fortification armed to the teeth for blowing big things up

 

Can't see anything wrong with that :D

 

The thing that is wrong with that, is that now they can't walk on, shoot, and then get themselves into the relative safety of close combat. It isn't so much that they've taken away our ability to kill extra enemy models on the turn they arrive (which also sucks some), it's the fact that they arrive and will now be much more vulnerable than ever before, as they'll be exposed to the firepower of everything left in the enemy backfield.

 

V

 

Wolf scouts become corner hunters if they want to survive. They show up where DPs won't risk it and hope to force battle lines to turn and focus fire to create openings.

 

The scouts can take a true plasma gun and 2xPP so if you ignore them they will keep firing away (unlike combi-plasma alpha strikers)

 

They lost effectiveness but still have positives

[Valerian]

Changes:

 

I think Lukas should be in every BC build as both his Last Laugh and cloak are working fully as intended for issuing challenges.

 

Wolf Lords are not limited to TWM for mobility anymore with bikes not giving true toughness 5 and not 4(5).

 

Sky Claws and Swift Claws are now fully viable.

 

Wolf Priests can now be part of a successful build.

 

Iron Priests have a use beyond just TWM and cyber wolves.

 

Loganwing just got very scary.

 

Loganwing + WG on bikes packs + Swift Claws just got even more scary.

 

Space Wolves may be the only SM chapter without a single need for allies.

 

One additional advantage to add to the list is that Grey Hunter packs don't inherently come with characters, so you may want to consider leaving them without WGLs assigned. Max pack at 10 for the free special weapon then add MotW, and a Wolf Standard, then a Power Axe. Your special close combat weapons are a little more protected than they'll be on Tactical Marine Sergeants, for example.

 

V

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

Okay here is a kicker that I am not sure if it's true or not but in the Profile index did anybody else notice that Squad leaders... in other words Wolf Guard Pack Leaders were classified as CH: Characters which gave them access to Called Shots and Hits... Went through the FAQ and couldn't find any clarity to this so does this mean that the WGPL with a Plasma Pistol can act as a sniper on that roll of a 6?

[Gerwulf]

Okay here is a kicker that I am not sure if it's true or not but in the Profile index did anybody else notice that Squad leaders... in other words Wolf Guard Pack Leaders were classified as CH: Characters which gave them access to Called Shots and Hits... Went through the FAQ and couldn't find any clarity to this so does this mean that the WGPL with a Plasma Pistol can act as a sniper on that roll of a 6?

 

As far as I understand it from reading the FAQ, they only are considered Characters when they join one of the listed packs, and not if they form a WG pack on their own.

But yes, WG that join a pack are considered characters and can allocate their wounds on a roll of a 6, they can also issue and accept challenges, and they get the look out, sir! roll against CC and ranged attacks, but not during challenges.

[Valerian]

Okay here is a kicker that I am not sure if it's true or not but in the Profile index did anybody else notice that Squad leaders... in other words Wolf Guard Pack Leaders were classified as CH: Characters which gave them access to Called Shots and Hits... Went through the FAQ and couldn't find any clarity to this so does this mean that the WGPL with a Plasma Pistol can act as a sniper on that roll of a 6?

 

Yes, that's absolutely what that means. If you look in Appendix 2 of the Rulebook, you'll see that all Wolf Guard are characters, not just the Pack Leaders, so if you use a unit of WGT (like I do to escort Ragnar), then any of them can designate any/all of their shooting and close combat attacks that roll a 6 to hit - pretty damned impressive, huh?

 

 

EDIT: So, as I was examining my models again tonight, I'm thinking I might need to move my Wolf Standards around within my Grey Hunter Packs. Right now, one Standard is on an MotW model in one pack, and two more are on models with Power Fists in the other packs. In 5e, I was never worried about putting "both eggs in one basket", but now I'm concerned about characters designating attacks against these models before I can get into combat. Perhaps it would be smarter to pop off some backpacks and spread around the upgrades.

 

Similarly, now that they are S5 and AP2, I'm wondering if it would be smarter to put a Power Axe in each Hunter pack, instead of the Power Fists that are currently there. Hmm. I'd be saving 10 points and getting an extra attack.

 

Valerian

[Gerwulf]

Yes, that's absolutely what that means. If you look through the FAQ/Errata/Amendments that came out on Saturday, you'll see that all Wolf Guard are characters, not just the Pack Leaders, so if you use a unit of WGT (like I do to escort Ragnar), then any of them can designate any/all of their shooting and close combat attacks that roll a 6 to hit - pretty damned impressive, huh?

 

Valerian

 

I'm sorry, but I'm reading it differently... The FAQ says:

Wolf Guard, Pack Leaders

Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph: Furthermore, A Wolf Guard Pack Leader's Unit type becomes "Character" in addition to its normal type

 

I know the BRB lists Infantry and Character in the list at the back. But reading the FAQ I read it like this.

Go to the entry for Wolf Guard, look at the box for Pack Leaders, add the sentence at the end.

The sentence says Wolf Guard Pack Leaders become Characters.

 

There is nothing in there that normal Wolf Guards become Characters.

[Valerian]

Yes, that's absolutely what that means. If you look through the FAQ/Errata/Amendments that came out on Saturday, you'll see that all Wolf Guard are characters, not just the Pack Leaders, so if you use a unit of WGT (like I do to escort Ragnar), then any of them can designate any/all of their shooting and close combat attacks that roll a 6 to hit - pretty damned impressive, huh?

 

Valerian

 

I'm sorry, but I'm reading it differently... The FAQ says:

Wolf Guard, Pack Leaders

Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph: Furthermore, A Wolf Guard Pack Leader's Unit type becomes "Character" in addition to its normal type

 

I know the BRB lists Infantry and Character in the list at the back. But reading the FAQ I read it like this.

Go to the entry for Wolf Guard, look at the box for Pack Leaders, add the sentence at the end.

The sentence says Wolf Guard Pack Leaders become Characters.

 

There is nothing in there that normal Wolf Guards become Characters.

 

I'm sorry, I mixed up my sources. It is the list in Appendix 2 of the new rulebook that says that all Wolf Guard are characters, not the FAQ. I did that backwards.

 

V

[Grimtooth]

Okay here is a kicker that I am not sure if it's true or not but in the Profile index did anybody else notice that Squad leaders... in other words Wolf Guard Pack Leaders were classified as CH: Characters which gave them access to Called Shots and Hits... Went through the FAQ and couldn't find any clarity to this so does this mean that the WGPL with a Plasma Pistol can act as a sniper on that roll of a 6?

 

Yes, that's absolutely what that means. If you look in Appendix 2 of the Rulebook, you'll see that all Wolf Guard are characters, not just the Pack Leaders, so if you use a unit of WGT (like I do to escort Ragnar), then any of them can designate any/all of their shooting and close combat attacks that roll a 6 to hit - pretty damned impressive, huh?

 

 

EDIT: So, as I was examining my models again tonight, I'm thinking I might need to move my Wolf Standards around within my Grey Hunter Packs. Right now, one Standard is on an MotW model in one pack, and two more are on models with Power Fists in the other packs. In 5e, I was never worried about putting "both eggs in one basket", but now I'm concerned about characters designating attacks against these models before I can get into combat. Perhaps it would be smarter to pop off some backpacks and spread around the upgrades.

 

Similarly, now that they are S5 and AP2, I'm wondering if it would be smarter to put a Power Axe in each Hunter pack, instead of the Power Fists that are currently there. Hmm. I'd be saving 10 points and getting an extra attack.

 

Valerian

 

I am contemplating the exact same thing for GH packs now being armed with power axes.

 

My GH pack loadouts will be changing quite abit after playtesting and this choice looks to be the most solid. MoW and wolf standard are not going anywhere, but I am almost 100% on the powerfists being swapped out to power axes.

[Wispy]

Here's a sample load out that makes Behind Enemy Lines a little more useable without being able to assault:

 

5 scouts, 1 Wolf guards

- Plasma gun, Plasma pistol

- WG plasma pistol x 2

 

 

Because of the gunslinger rule, that's an extra two plasma shots from the Wolf Guard. Five high AP shots. If you can place them in an entrenched position, win.

[fjgarces]

One additional advantage to add to the list is that Grey Hunter packs don't inherently come with characters, so you may want to consider leaving them without WGLs assigned. Max pack at 10 for the free special weapon then add MotW, and a Wolf Standard, then a Power Axe. Your special close combat weapons are a little more protected than they'll be on Tactical Marine Sergeants, for example.

 

V

 

Good appreciation Valerian ;)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

What're you thinking for targets with that loadout? Melta on vehicle was pretty obvious, but I'm lost on this.

[Wispy]

What're you thinking for targets with that loadout? Melta on vehicle was pretty obvious, but I'm lost on this.

Everything.

 

Mass plasma is much better killing vehicles because of the hull point system. AP2 does increased damage on the damage table as well.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I like the way you think. And because of the cover rules, if you catch a good target outside the cover the rest of the unit is in, you can snipe him pretty easily.

[eyeslikethunder]

do shooting through models give covers saves?

 

if so could shield off the models you dont want to die?

[eyeslikethunder]

One additional advantage to add to the list is that Grey Hunter packs don't inherently come with characters, so you may want to consider leaving them without WGLs assigned. Max pack at 10 for the free special weapon then add MotW, and a Wolf Standard, then a Power Axe. Your special close combat weapons are a little more protected than they'll be on Tactical Marine Sergeants, for example.

 

V

 

Good appreciation Valerian :)

i can see fantasy battle experience is bonus now

 

bevause i have runeprs and wolfguard in my grey hunters units dropping wolfguard is tempting as dont suffer the leadership penalty

[CainTheHunter]

What is the general consenus about TWC under new rules? Are they better, worse or just different? I am a bit hesitant to finally get them, as I really did not see a placefor them (points-wise) in my old mech GH list. At the same time, I am looking to incorporate 10 Skyclaws, so points-wise it'd be even more difficult than it was. Having read about a shift for SW towards defensive armies, I am trying to find a place for TWC. One of the reasons I am asking, is because TWC is essentially the only kit I don't have (apart of standard Land Raider and stormraven/talon variants, which I don't need).

[eyeslikethunder]

They look good to me

13-18 move with fleet rerolling the run

Charge distance is just about the same

Hammer of wrath adds a extra hit

No penalties for moving on difficult terrain and dangerous has been neutered

 

 

I am considering giving my Twl a wc and th as the new special weapon rules allow you to gain +1 attack even If the different weapons

Belt of russ and runic armour

 

This should make versatile in challenges have full attacks and good protection