6th ED and How We See It Changing Our Lists

[Wulfebane]

- "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker. Yes because a 6+ is reliable.

- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer.

 

Was thinking that because the psychic hood has been nerfed so massively runic staff would have to be as well

 

I am reading this differently from you, I think.

 

First, this being a GK ability, as you stated "every model/unit" in the army has Deny the Witch. However, if any model/unit is within 6" of a psyker, he can nullify the power on a 4+, even if the ability (such as LL) was cast more than 24" away. It doesn't say that the psychic hood loses its standard ability, so if an opponent psyker within 24" of the hood casts a power directed at a model not within 6" of your psyker, you'll still be able to nullify. Thusly, if anything, the psychic hood has become more powerful.

 

That's how I see it, at least.

[Simo429]

- "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker. Yes because a 6+ is reliable.

- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer.

 

Was thinking that because the psychic hood has been nerfed so massively runic staff would have to be as well

 

I am reading this differently from you, I think.

 

First, this being a GK ability, as you stated "every model/unit" in the army has Deny the Witch. However, if any model/unit is within 6" of a psyker, he can nullify the power on a 4+, even if the ability (such as LL) was cast more than 24" away. It doesn't say that the psychic hood loses its standard ability, so if an opponent psyker within 24" of the hood casts a power directed at a model not within 6" of your psyker, you'll still be able to nullify. Thusly, if anything, the psychic hood has become more powerful.

 

That's how I see it, at least.

Its not just a GK ability ratling snipers attempt it on page 63 of white dwarf.

although now you explain the power I see what you are saying with the target

[Roland Durendal]

Good stuff you guys and keep it coming!

 

As to some questions I saw:

 

1)/ Preferred Enemy is now rerolls to all 1's in Shooting to Hit AND CC to hit. I believe someone mentioned its also rerolls to 1s to wound in CC, but that part I havent seen confirmed. The rest has been

 

2). Beasts get a 12" move, move through cover, and a 2d6 assault with NO PENALTIES for assaulting through cover. So TWC are still as good as always.

 

Something I just read over at Natfka's blog got me interested, re: the Warlord powers. I'm now thinking of giving Njal the Personal Trait chart of his Warlord power. The benefits are solid for a LR bound Termie armor WG unit: either I can get FC if Njal and his termies are in the Enemy Deployment Zone or (what I'd hope for), he and any unit he's attached to during deployment (i.e. Termies in a LR) get to Outflank. Coupled with Acute Sense allowing rerolls for Outflanking and you've got a nasty flanking surprise for the enemy. Downside is Njals Lord of Tempests powers won't come into play until at least Turn 2.

[Marmande]

Acute Senses (supposedly) lets you re-roll Outflank rolls; not that anyone needed an excuse to take Scouts, but jeez.

[Iacton Qruze]

1)/ Preferred Enemy is now rerolls to all 1's in Shooting to Hit AND CC to hit. I believe someone mentioned its also rerolls to 1s to wound in CC, but that part I havent seen confirmed.

 

2). Beasts get a 12" move, move through cover, and a 2d6 assault with NO PENALTIES for assaulting through cover. So TWC are still as good as always.

 

They do also get the reroll for 1's to wound.

 

Cav does have to take dangerous terrain rolls going through diff terrain (beasts do not) Both do retain fleet, though, giving them a reroll to the 2d6 charge distance. with the warlord power allowing outflanking as a possibility, TWC are going to be absolutely BRUTAL.

 

I'm thinking of allying with guard for the master of the fleet to boost the right reserve rolls, and then turn 2 mass assaulting with outflanking TWC and 2 packs of tooled up scouts.

[eyeslikethunder]

Yeah Was looking at the Cav rules

trying work out if TWC are better or not

 

12" move makes them more consistent in getting around the board but the charge roll means they are less likely to get their full 24" move than before

They have gone from 19"-24 charge to a 13"- 24" charge

 

and the game seems to have gone more shooting orientated not less

Although night fighting in every mission might help

They do also get the reroll for 1's to wound.

If so that makes firing LF's into infantry were quite often you need a 3+ followed by a 2+ with preferred enemy lethal

[Iacton Qruze]

True, if you're willing to spend the points to make Longfangs preferred enemy. On that note, our best takedown for enemy terminators might actually be WG podding in with combi plasma, with a Priest to make them preferred enemy. Rerolling overheats and rerolling failed wounds with AP 2 will take a lot of wind out of their sails, at 23 points per model. ;)

 

TWC would have a minimum 14", if we're arguing semantics, but how often are you going to roll snake eye, and then roll snake eyes on the reroll?

[Valerian]

To be perfectly honest, I don't see my lists changing much at all, if any. I'm not going to use any allies, and I don't see any of the rumored changes really messing with what I'm already comfortable with. The only change that I might make is adding back in a Sky Claws pack (with Wolf Priest escort).

 

Of course, I haven't seen the full release of the rules yet, and will need time to go over that with a fine tooth comb and re-analyze everything. A few minor adjustments might be warranted, but I really can't imagine making any significant sweeping changes.

 

Valerian

[Wulfebane]

@Valerian - I think the biggest change all Wolf players will have to make is a reliable anti-aircraft option, especially those not wanting to take allies. If today's GW blog post holds up, BT and SW won't have flyer access without allies (or at the very least Stormtalon access).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think SW will continue to do well. In my opinion it's the best SM codex with lots of staple units. TWC will still be good as it looks like everything got slower. I see gun line armies making a comeback in 6th edition and this codex has lots and lots of guns.

 

G :(

[Valerian]

@Valerian - I think the biggest change all Wolf players will have to make is a reliable anti-aircraft option, especially those not wanting to take allies. If today's GW blog post holds up, BT and SW won't have flyer access without allies (or at the very least Stormtalon access).

 

Still not too worried about it. If we don't get a Flyer option of our own, I'm about 75% sure we'll get some option for AA defense. If not, I'm still not too concerned, unless Flyers somehow start breaking the game. As I see it, everyone needs to keep their "eye on the ball" toward the new mission objectives - unless those Flyers are a key factor in ensuring your enemy can achieve his objectives, or can somehow prevent you from achieving yours, then they aren't a priority anyway.

 

Acute Senses (supposedly) lets you re-roll Outflank rolls; not that anyone needed an excuse to take Scouts, but jeez.

 

Wolf Scouts have been my favorite unit for a long time already, and I've got two large (8 man) packs ready to go, with both accompanied by TH/C-M Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, and one often with a Wolf Priest, so the improved Outflank/BEL roll, just makes them that much more of a no-brainer for me.

 

With the warlord power allowing outflanking as a possibility, TWC are going to be absolutely BRUTAL.

 

I'm thinking of allying with guard for the master of the fleet to boost the right reserve rolls, and then turn 2 mass assaulting with outflanking TWC and 2 packs of tooled up scouts.

 

IQ, unfortunately, I don't think you get to pick the Warlord power, but rather pick the category (Leadership, Personal, or Strategic), and roll a d6 within the category to see what your bonus is for the game. That means the likelihood of actually getting that special extra Outflank with your Warlord and attached unit are too low to plan on it. If you get lucky, then sure it will be nice to take advantage of, but it'll be best to plan on not having that initially.

 

Valerian

[Kassill]

Valerian, I feel the same as you for the most part. My list won't be deviating too far from what they are now (unless I find that with the new vehicle rules rhino's get smoked even quicker...).

 

Not really looking to take allies either.

 

The only thing that worries me is the lack of a clear AA ability. I would really, really hate to have to rely on taking a bastion or aigis (sp?) defense line to get the AA gun.

 

Being a person who likes to study warfare history, doctrines, etc etc, I have seen and read plenty of accounts of how devastating Air attacks can be when there is no defense. Just wondering how close this will translate to the table top. I agree, your focus should be on the mission at hand, but if you've got flyers slaughtering your ground elements like fish in a barrel, then... ;)

 

To commit troops to a campaign in which they cannot be provided with adequate air support is to court disaster.

-- Field Marshal Claude Auchinleck, 1940

[eyeslikethunder]

True, if you're willing to spend the points to make Longfangs preferred enemy. On that note, our best takedown for enemy terminators might actually be WG podding in with combi plasma, with a Priest to make them preferred enemy. Rerolling overheats and rerolling failed wounds with AP 2 will take a lot of wind out of their sails, at 23 points per model. :D

 

TWC would have a minimum 14", if we're arguing semantics, but how often are you going to roll snake eye, and then roll snake eyes on the reroll?

Whenever you need a 3" :D most likely

 

 

YUP my WG with WP might be returning to board. I think my Long fang load will depend on lot how vehicle have been affected. the rules make lascannons/melta better and autocannons/rockets a little worse because to the 6 to destroy on the chart. I have heard 3hull points for rhino but want it confirmed

[Simo429]

Valerian, I feel the same as you for the most part. My list won't be deviating too far from what they are now (unless I find that with the new vehicle rules rhino's get smoked even quicker...).

 

Not really looking to take allies either.

 

The only thing that worries me is the lack of a clear AA ability. I would really, really hate to have to rely on taking a bastion or aigis (sp?) defense line to get the AA gun.

 

Being a person who likes to study warfare history, doctrines, etc etc, I have seen and read plenty of accounts of how devastating Air attacks can be when there is no defense. Just wondering how close this will translate to the table top. I agree, your focus should be on the mission at hand, but if you've got flyers slaughtering your ground elements like fish in a barrel, then... :D

 

To commit troops to a campaign in which they cannot be provided with adequate air support is to court disaster.

-- Field Marshal Claude Auchinleck, 1940

I think they will be an annoyance, but not game changing, I don't see fliers being in big enough numbers to really change things that much

[Khine]

Valerian, I feel the same as you for the most part. My list won't be deviating too far from what they are now (unless I find that with the new vehicle rules rhino's get smoked even quicker...).

 

Not really looking to take allies either.

 

The only thing that worries me is the lack of a clear AA ability. I would really, really hate to have to rely on taking a bastion or aigis (sp?) defense line to get the AA gun.

 

Being a person who likes to study warfare history, doctrines, etc etc, I have seen and read plenty of accounts of how devastating Air attacks can be when there is no defense. Just wondering how close this will translate to the table top. I agree, your focus should be on the mission at hand, but if you've got flyers slaughtering your ground elements like fish in a barrel, then... :D

 

To commit troops to a campaign in which they cannot be provided with adequate air support is to court disaster.

-- Field Marshal Claude Auchinleck, 1940

I think they will be an annoyance, but not game changing, I don't see fliers being in big enough numbers to really change things that much

 

I dunno .. those.. DE flyers... i can't remember their name, the ones with all the missiles .. they can be pretty annoying if they are allowed to live.

[Darkseer]

Hi guys,

 

I'm going to be writing 5 articles about 6th edition for Space Wolves next week on the blog.

Basically I'm getting the rulebook, reading the whole thing cover to cover and making notes as I go.

 

But from what I can see so far, nothing really changes much for the Wolves.

Only difference is that you can buy Aegis Defence Lines for 50pts to make sure you're never stuck for cover.

Makes that 'objective holder' unit more survivable and gives them a heavy weapon/anti aircraft gun too. Totally worth it!

 

Flyers are going to be a pain in the backside though.

The only blessing is Snap Fire, which allows all our units to move at full speed and shoot at BS1. But when you always fire at flyers at a BS of 1, that opens up some pretty interesting manouveres.

 

Anyway, I'll have more ideas for you all when I've read the book.

[CainTheHunter]

Valerian, I feel the same as you for the most part. My list won't be deviating too far from what they are now (unless I find that with the new vehicle rules rhino's get smoked even quicker...).

 

Not really looking to take allies either.

 

The only thing that worries me is the lack of a clear AA ability. I would really, really hate to have to rely on taking a bastion or aigis (sp?) defense line to get the AA gun.

 

Being a person who likes to study warfare history, doctrines, etc etc, I have seen and read plenty of accounts of how devastating Air attacks can be when there is no defense. Just wondering how close this will translate to the table top. I agree, your focus should be on the mission at hand, but if you've got flyers slaughtering your ground elements like fish in a barrel, then... :D

 

To commit troops to a campaign in which they cannot be provided with adequate air support is to court disaster.

-- Field Marshal Claude Auchinleck, 1940

I think they will be an annoyance, but not game changing, I don't see fliers being in big enough numbers to really change things that much

 

I dunno .. those.. DE flyers... i can't remember their name, the ones with all the missiles .. they can be pretty annoying if they are allowed to live.

 

Razorwing Jetfighters - they have only 4 missiles (large templates though). Afterwards they are free to go with 2 Dark Lances/disintegrators and one Splinter Cannon. What is the most interesting is the new FOC, which means that in games over 2000 points we will be seeing 4 heavy support choices and these birds will have a more often appearance (presently considered to be subpar to Ravagers).

[Simo429]

I certainly wonder if we will be seeing GW shift towards higher pointed games for things like Throne of Skulls, you may need it to get fortifications and allies in and that will sell models and as we know £ are the driving force between everything GW do.

[Hfran Morkai]

I'm going to wait until I've read the new rulebook, specifically combat and pyschic related stuff.

 

Because I run an infantry based force (yet haven't actually managed to paint anything up due to university and other commitments) and I need to know how best to keep my sloggers alive, I can see myself still using at least one Rune Priest though with the new options maybe I won't be using Storm Caller (we have power armour anyway xD) but I'm really interested in seeing the new rules for close combat weapons.

 

My current theoretical list has a Rune Priest, Wolf Priest, Grey Hunter pack, Blood Claw pack and Long Fang pack at 750 but I'll be interested to see how I feel the need to shift this list around. I'm thinking more bodies on the ground with less cool toys, sadly.

[Iacton Qruze]

With the warlord power allowing outflanking as a possibility, TWC are going to be absolutely BRUTAL.

 

I'm thinking of allying with guard for the master of the fleet to boost the right reserve rolls, and then turn 2 mass assaulting with outflanking TWC and 2 packs of tooled up scouts.

 

IQ, unfortunately, I don't think you get to pick the Warlord power, but rather pick the category (Leadership, Personal, or Strategic), and roll a d6 within the category to see what your bonus is for the game. That means the likelihood of actually getting that special extra Outflank with your Warlord and attached unit are too low to plan on it. If you get lucky, then sure it will be nice to take advantage of, but it'll be best to plan on not having that initially.

 

Valerian

 

Sorry, I skipped some steps in my plan. That didn't come across right; I'm aware that you have to roll on the chart of your choice, which is why I stated it as a possibility (a broad term, I suppose :P ). It's a 1 in 6 chance, obviously, but we're talking about TWC here. I'm not taking them edging on that chance of them outflanking, I'm taking them to break a line in CC, and 1 out of 6 times, I'm going to outflank and skip that line to cut the heart from my enemy in one go. :P

[Lord Ragnarok]

True, if you're willing to spend the points to make Longfangs preferred enemy. On that note, our best takedown for enemy terminators might actually be WG podding in with combi plasma, with a Priest to make them preferred enemy. Rerolling overheats and rerolling failed wounds with AP 2 will take a lot of wind out of their sails, at 23 points per model. :D

 

TWC would have a minimum 14", if we're arguing semantics, but how often are you going to roll snake eye, and then roll snake eyes on the reroll?

 

During 4th, I rolled 4 1's for my WG termies armor save(can't remember if it was overheat or what) which the runic charm allowed me to re-roll. I rolled 4 ones again for the re-roll. :D

 

With respect to drop pods, and WG..I would love to field my old littlbitz inspired plasma pack of doom from 4th. Whole squads of anything would die to the massed AC and combi plasma shots.

[MSpiel]

With respect to drop pods, and WG..I would love to field my old littlbitz inspired plasma pack of doom from 4th. Whole squads of anything would die to the massed AC and combi plasma shots.

 

I'm pretty sure my 5-man squad of those cost around 500 pts :pinch:

 

I remember however taking almost an entire salamanders army down with that unit though.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

In the current codex you can get one TDA AC WG and eight PA WG all with C-Plas in a drop pod for just under 300 points. Over kill?? Yes. Super cool?? :pinch: YES!!

 

I also am waiting to read through the new book before making any solid decisions. I do know that I will be taking 5 man TWC packs form now on though with a single Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. I may add a GH plas-line or two in as well...

 

End of Line

[vtec407]

I've always been anti-mech with my wolves army because I hate painting vehicles. Looks like 6th edition will be an easy transition for me and others that like to footslog as well.

[Valerian]

With the warlord power allowing outflanking as a possibility, TWC are going to be absolutely BRUTAL.

 

I'm thinking of allying with guard for the master of the fleet to boost the right reserve rolls, and then turn 2 mass assaulting with outflanking TWC and 2 packs of tooled up scouts.

 

IQ, unfortunately, I don't think you get to pick the Warlord power, but rather pick the category (Leadership, Personal, or Strategic), and roll a d6 within the category to see what your bonus is for the game. That means the likelihood of actually getting that special extra Outflank with your Warlord and attached unit are too low to plan on it. If you get lucky, then sure it will be nice to take advantage of, but it'll be best to plan on not having that initially.

 

Valerian

 

Sorry, I skipped some steps in my plan. That didn't come across right; I'm aware that you have to roll on the chart of your choice, which is why I stated it as a possibility (a broad term, I suppose :P ). It's a 1 in 6 chance, obviously, but we're talking about TWC here. I'm not taking them edging on that chance of them outflanking, I'm taking them to break a line in CC, and 1 out of 6 times, I'm going to outflank and skip that line to cut the heart from my enemy in one go. :D

 

In that case, no problem then. Although I really like the idea of outflanking with Ragnar + unit, I think I'll probably stick with the Strategic category, which seems to have more flexibility/utility for now (at least until I get to peruse the actual mission objectives).

 

V