6th ED and How We See It Changing Our Lists

[eyeslikethunder]

is rending on the hit roll or the wound roll?

 

I heard rumors either way

[Jonny Wolf]

You could be right.

[eyeslikethunder]

no chance you could check?

 

if its hit roll no rending on Hammer on wrath as you dont roll

if is wound roll you might be able to

[Jonny Wolf]

Rending-

Combat: With a roll of six to wound the model suffers a wound regardless of his toughness at AP2

 

Shooting: a roll of 6 allows for a further D3 to be rolled.

[Wulfebane]

Oh man, I can see it now. Rune Priests dropping dreadnoughts with Jaws (IF they're MC) then wiping out an incoming assault with MH or LL with a bs2 from CotS. Its one of those improbable situations where you're called a cheat for having loaded dice, but if it happens even once, it'll be epic!

[Jonny Wolf]

Then another rune priest casts foreboding on that unit which raises their BS back to normal in overwatch

[Valerian]

no chance you could check?

 

if its hit roll no rending on Hammer on wrath as you dont roll

if is wound roll you might be able to

 

ELT,

 

There wouldn't be Rending for Hammer of Wrath, or any other special abilities. It's just an extra free hit per assaulting model at base Strength and no AP (i.e. AP -). As someone else pointed out, it's just an extra "curb-stomp" attack that certain types of units get for charging into the enemy before they actually start swinging weapons/fists.

 

Valerian

 

p.s. Based on that new Flakk missile rule, it looks like I'm going to need to put together a few ML Long Fangs, as right now I've only got one. It is also hella-lame that a) I can't snap fire with Plasma Cannon, and b) they didn't change the hit/scatter system for Blast weapons. Oh well.

[Kassill]

Glad to hear we will have an AA ability on our own, rather than relying on fortifications or allies. :)

[Fytharin]

Glad to hear we will have an AA ability on our own, rather than relying on fortifications or allies. :tu:

 

Yes I am very happy about this fact. Plus the fact that I was going to equip my LF with ML anyways makes them that much more tastier now. :)

[MeatGrinder]

Having seen the book today, I don't see transports being a brittle as everyone says. 3 hull points means 3 glancing before they go down, and penetrating only wreck them on a 6.

Divination powers are flat out awesome, theres one or two duds, but the rest are impeccable. But only having level 1 psykers is going to be a pain, as we only get 1 charge for each per turn. I see myself taking 4 in my lists.

Bikes, bikes will be awesome, the impact hits at I10 will be amazing.

What I dislike is that modelling axes instead of swords for power weapons is baaaad. Axes are +1str and I1. On the upside, taking a power fist and a lightning claw gives +1 attack. They have the unweildy rule, and only gain an extra attack if paired with a weapon with the same rule.

 

 

All inall, I am VERY excited for this edition, I think the rules are solid, with a few exceptions (Allies will be horrible in compettitve play.)

[Fytharin]

All inall, I am VERY excited for this edition, I think the rules are solid, with a few exceptions (Allies will be horrible in compettitve play.)

 

Horrible as in uberly broken and powerful or horrible as in not worth taking?

[Kassill]

Glad to hear we will have an AA ability on our own, rather than relying on fortifications or allies. ;)

 

Yes I am very happy about this fact. Plus the fact that I was going to equip my LF with ML anyways makes them that much more tastier now. :unsure:

 

Yeah, this give me even more reason to always have my trusty Missile Launcher Long Fangs on hand! :eek

[Aeddon]

Has anyone seen what exactly "unwieldy" is? The whole I1 thing seems like a BIG downgrade too me and I can't see why anyone would ever take an ax.

[Jonny Wolf]

Having seen the book today, I don't see transports being a brittle as everyone says. 3 hull points means 3 glancing before they go down, and penetrating only wreck them on a 6.

Divination powers are flat out awesome, theres one or two duds, but the rest are impeccable. But only having level 1 psykers is going to be a pain, as we only get 1 charge for each per turn. I see myself taking 4 in my lists.

Bikes, bikes will be awesome, the impact hits at I10 will be amazing.

What I dislike is that modelling axes instead of swords for power weapons is baaaad. Axes are +1str and I1. On the upside, taking a power fist and a lightning claw gives +1 attack. They have the unweildy rule, and only gain an extra attack if paired with a weapon with the same rule.

 

 

All inall, I am VERY excited for this edition, I think the rules are solid, with a few exceptions (Allies will be horrible in compettitve play.)

 

Almost right brother

 

Divination are great but you have to roll for the power. Some of them are duds.

Lightning claws remain the same; they just renamed the rules. Still need two lightning claws for the +1 attack.

Unwieldy just means its initiative 1

 

Power axes are +2 strength init1, but the BRB states right after:

"Unusual power Weapons

Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules [frost blades, wolf claws], treat it as an AP3 Melee [hand to hand] weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry."

 

As there is no separation between frost axe or frost blade I think our frost blades will remain +1 strength and become AP3.

 

Until the FAQ comes out of course.

[Aeddon]

...Unwieldy just means its initiative 1...

What a waste. Ah well, thanks.

[MeatGrinder]

Having seen the book today, I don't see transports being a brittle as everyone says. 3 hull points means 3 glancing before they go down, and penetrating only wreck them on a 6.

Divination powers are flat out awesome, theres one or two duds, but the rest are impeccable. But only having level 1 psykers is going to be a pain, as we only get 1 charge for each per turn. I see myself taking 4 in my lists.

Bikes, bikes will be awesome, the impact hits at I10 will be amazing.

What I dislike is that modelling axes instead of swords for power weapons is baaaad. Axes are +1str and I1. On the upside, taking a power fist and a lightning claw gives +1 attack. They have the unweildy rule, and only gain an extra attack if paired with a weapon with the same rule.

 

 

All inall, I am VERY excited for this edition, I think the rules are solid, with a few exceptions (Allies will be horrible in compettitve play.)

 

Almost right brother

 

Divination are great but you have to roll for the power. Some of them are duds.

Lightning claws remain the same; they just renamed the rules. Still need two lightning claws for the +1 attack.

Unwieldy just means its initiative 1

 

Power axes are +2 strength init1, but the BRB states right after:

"Unusual power Weapons

Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules [frost blades, wolf claws], treat it as an AP3 Melee [hand to hand] weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry."

 

As there is no separation between frost axe or frost blade I think our frost blades will remain +1 strength and become AP3.

 

Until the FAQ comes out of course.

 

What I read today made no mention of needing the second claw, it stated ''Also has the rule''. We took a good look at it and couldnt see anything stopping us.

 

It states in the book ''Look at the way the weapon is modelled''. This is for force axes and power axes specifically.

Perhaps my memory is a bit fogged, but we were discussing this today and I am sure this is what I read. Particularly as I made a point of all my rune priest having spears.

Ofcourse, I paraphrase the quotes.

 

Also, force staves are Ap4, another titbit I read.

[IamCaboose]

I wonder if Tempest Wrath will affect flyers? Could be a guaranteed way to shut them down if so. Also, with the new challenges rule for CC I believe Arjac will fit into every army.

 

Caboose

[Kassill]

...Unwieldy just means its initiative 1...

What a waste. Ah well, thanks.

 

 

This just makes absolutely no sense. You are trying to tell me it takes the same amount of time to swing an axe as it does a fist or hammer? No freaking way, just, no... :to:

[Exark]

So a question I pose, what are alternatives then for MC killing?

 

I'm seriously considering re-writing my list to have my pack leaders be duelists instead of "I'm going to slap you silly with my fist beastie" type units

[Khine]

I wonder if Tempest Wrath will affect flyers? Could be a guaranteed way to shut them down if so. Also, with the new challenges rule for CC I believe Arjac will fit into every army.

 

Caboose

 

I believe it said something in the flyer rules for zoom that when they are in that flight mode they don't need to take tests if they are passing over difficult, dangerous or impassable terrain.

 

Against jump infantry and skimmers ( ie DE troop carts and necron hover toys) though .. oh boy :to: fun fun

[Wulfebane]

I wonder if Tempest Wrath will affect flyers? Could be a guaranteed way to shut them down if so. Also, with the new challenges rule for CC I believe Arjac will fit into every army.

 

Caboose

 

I was under the impression challenges only work for ICs, for which Arjac is not.

[Valerian]

I wonder if Tempest Wrath will affect flyers? Could be a guaranteed way to shut them down if so. Also, with the new challenges rule for CC I believe Arjac will fit into every army.

 

Caboose

 

I was under the impression challenges only work for ICs, for which Arjac is not.

 

No, Wulfebane, challenges work for any "Character", not just "independent characters". Arjac was made for this edition: "such is his skill at dueling that Arjac may re-roll all failed rolls To Hit against an enemy with the Independent Character or Monstrous Creature rule." I mean come on...

 

 

Preliminary thoughts on this are that we will transition from this > that, where there were obvious advantages of taking certain melee weapons over others, and the only real discriminator was elevated point cost or personal preference, to a new paradigm (which I'll address below). As an example of this, for Wolf Guard Leaders it has been commonly accepted that Power Fist > Power Weapon. The advantages of the fist, compared against the single disadvantage (hitting at I1) always demonstrated that it was the superior choice. The only debate was whether it was worth ponying up the extra 5 points to get the Thunder Hammer (obviously better than the Fist, but is that single additional capability (the stun) worth the extra investment?).

 

Now, however, we enter a new era where we have a dilemma of Rock > Scissors > Paper > Rock, etc. I believe there will be many additional factors that must be taken into consideration when making this selection, than there was in the past. Foremost, it is important to remember that the Power Fist (and Thunderhammer) will still be Sx2, and AP2 - basically the same capability as before. However, they can be singled out in combat by enemy characters (including enemy Squad Sergeants) in an assault. If that enemy has a Power Weapon (or Lightning Claw, or Power Maul, etc.), then he'll likely crush your poor Power Fist armed WGL long before he ever gets to swing. He'll be the Paper to your Rock. However, you might need that Rock to help you deal with other threats that the Rock is designed to excel against (the Scissors units of 40k).

 

Here, my pack-mates, we Space Wolves have one huge advantage - none of our units (bar Long Fangs) actually come with stock Sergeants/Characters. In a pack of Grey Hunters, we can put a Power Fist on a regular Hunter who still provides the unit with a "hidden" Fist. He gets less attacks than a Sergeant/WGL would, but he still gets two solid attacks on the charge/counterattack, which might be just enough to get by with. If you don't think you really need the Fist, then that model would do well to get a Power Axe, and get the 3 attacks at S5 on the charge/counterattack. Then, if you feel like adding a WGL, you can equip him to survive challenges better by going for a Power Weapon or a Wolf Claw (or even a Power Maul, if you aren't concerned about the reduced AP). Additionally, hardly anyone else out there can put their Squad Leaders in TDA. You want to almost guarantee challenge victories? Throw an WGL in Terminator Armour with a Storm Shield and Wolf Claw to lead your units. Your opponent doesn't feel up to the challenge? No problem, you can sit this turn out then. Sorry you wasted the points on that upgrade that you don't even get to use.

 

Okay, sorry, I'm starting to ramble.

 

Valerian

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Val, that past paragraph is amazing "strategery".

 

WLK

[Valerian]

Val, that past paragraph is amazing "strategery".

 

WLK

 

I don't know about "amazing", but thanks WLK. Just wait until I really get going and I rewrite my Army Building Guide from the ground up. I'm looking forward to taking a fresh look at the game, and at Space Wolves.

 

Best Regards,

 

V

[Valerian]

So a question I pose, what are alternatives then for MC killing?

 

I'm seriously considering re-writing my list to have my pack leaders be duelists instead of "I'm going to slap you silly with my fist beastie" type units

 

 

Exarch, one great (and new) alternative for MC killing is the fact that you'll get to use all of those free Krak grenades on Monstrous Creatures in close combat now (S6 attacks all around, yippee!). I don't think MCs are going to be all that great of a threat for most units, and you should be free to arm those Pack Leaders for "dueling", and maybe throw a Fist in there on a regular dude (Hunter or Claw) to make those MCs really think twice about getting too close (see above).

 

Oh, and I almost forgot, we still can get a Mark of the Wulfen model in most units, too, and there is nothing more helpful and a handful of Rending attacks to add onto the rest, either.

 

Valerian