tksolway Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I thought I would start a topic based upon the stuff we've seen in the new White Dwarf. Since not everyone has seen the "leaked" rule book, nor do we even know whether or not it is a hoax. I figure it is better to concentrate on what we actually know to be true. For instance, it looks like the Storm Raven is really going to rock in the new codex, and you will have to decide whether it is worth using it as a transport or just as a gun platform. If Hull points work as they do in Apocalypse, then suddenly the Land Raider has become great again, along with a much tougher Dreadnought. Our actual troops might lose some of their power, since it looks like the Storm Bolter's advantage over Rapid Fire weapons might be lessened, but at the same time, if we get charged we have twice the number of shots in an overwatch. I wonder how this will affect current armies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 For instance, it looks like the Storm Raven is really going to rock in the new codex, and you will have to decide whether it is worth using it as a transport or just as a gun platform. I don't know yet. Because it is a flyer it has to start in reserve (unless Hover capable Flyers get an exception), which comes on turn 2 on a 3+. If it gets shot down while Zooming (in flyer mode), the occupants all take a S10 AP1 hit, basically wiping pretty much anything it was carrying along with it. If it turns out to be easy to be shot down, it might just be a flying deathtrap. If Hull points work as they do in Apocalypse, then suddenly the Land Raider has become great again, along with a much tougher Dreadnought. Hull points work like this: - Vehicles come with a starting amount of hull points. Most vehicles (Dreadnoughts, Rhinos, etc) have 3 while tougher ones (Land Raiders) have 4. - On a glancing hit, remove 1 hull point. - On a penetrating hit, remove one hull point and roll on the damage chart (1-2 shaken, 3 stunned, 4 weapon destroyed, 5 immobilized, 6 explode), AP2 gains +1 on the chart, AP1 gains +2. - If you are reduced to 0 hull points, the vehicle is wrecked. So after 3-4 hits that beat your armour value, you are guaranteed to loose a vehicle. Especially Venerable Dreadnoughts seem to suffer in survivablity this way. Our actual troops might lose some of their power, since it looks like the Storm Bolter's advantage over Rapid Fire weapons might be lessened, but at the same time, if we get charged we have twice the number of shots in an overwatch. You still get to assault after firing an Assault weapon, and you have twice as many shots in the 12-24" range. As overwatch is in the 12" range I'm not sure if Rapid Fire weapons only get 1 shot though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3095333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tksolway Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 If hull points do indeed work as you say, then transports are going to be very vulnerable to our psibolts 20 S5 shots will have no problem wreaking a transport. Our troops almost take on that Necron-esce ability to threaten light vehicles without heavy weapons. While Necrons become incredibly dangerous, as a squad can seriously threaten a Land Raider with their normal weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3095376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hmmm. Don't like the fact you can hit a 4 Hull point LR with a Pen, and still destory it in one hit. I tohught that's what Hull points were trying to stop. Guess I'll just take a Vindicare and lol turbo pen any LR I see. Edit: At the least, you should subtract the amount of remianing Hull points from the damage chart roll for a Pen hit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3095433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tksolway Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 The Hull points issue is still up in the air though, we don't know the full rules yet. I think what is really important is the changes to shooting. It seems we can throw grenades now as well, I assume they are resolved much like a missile would, but at lower ranger, its hard to tell. The most telling change is the overwatch, and the assault move, which seems to be a roll now, with fleet troops getting a re-roll, as suggested in the battle report. That is pretty significant as it increases the survivability of a gun line, allowing more time before they are charged. At the same time with overwatch masses of troops become more scary than they once were. Heck, I would be less afraid of a squad of harliquins now that I can pump 20 shots at them as they charge, even if I'm only hitting on sixes. Overwatch basically allows us to take a charge rather than making sure you are the one that charges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3095455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Interceptors get a couple of buffs, too, including the re-roll a dice on the 2d6 charge for being Jump Infantry, combined with the free/extra I10 attack on the assault for "Hammer of Wrath" (although I believe this is just a base model strength attack, ie. S4, no force weapon). So almost guaranteed to get a greater assault range than before, and some extra free attacks will be nice against units that aren't particularly strong in close combat. This doesn't make Interceptors dedicated assault units yet, but it does make them more capable in picking off weak/vulnerable support units. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3096024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Aye, Hammer of Wrath, which gives you a free I10 attack/hit (not clear which yet) at base strength AP-. So far, bikes, jump infantry, walkers and monstrous creatures seem to get it, so Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts will also benefit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3096041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tksolway Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Tomorrow I pick up my Manual, I can't wait to figure out just how everything is going to work in the new edition. I just hope it isn't even more centered around vehicles than the last. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hull Points do indeed work that way, so Glancing can steadily kill a vehicle, while Penetrating hits have a chance of one-shoting a vehicle. If a vehicle is classed as a Flyer, it MUST enter play from reserve, 3+ Turn 2, 3+ Turn 3, automatic turn 4. When it enters play, you choose to enter as a Flyer or in Hover mode (turning into a Fast Skimmer). Should also note that Dreadknights with the Personal Teleporter can Swoop, flying over and dealing hits a-la Command Barges and Lords with Warscythes, while opponents cannot charge you. Combo it with Grand Strategy to make him scoring and you have an ALMOST untouchable Dreadknight that can only be shot down... Hammer of Wrath is an attack at Initiative 10, base Strength, no AP. You still need to roll to Hit and Wound. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hull Points do indeed work that way, so Glancing can steadily kill a vehicle, while Penetrating hits have a chance of one-shoting a vehicle. If a vehicle is classed as a Flyer, it MUST enter play from reserve, 3+ Turn 2, 3+ Turn 3, automatic turn 4. When it enters play, you choose to enter as a Flyer or in Hover mode (turning into a Fast Skimmer). Should also note that Dreadknights with the Personal Teleporter can Swoop, flying over and dealing hits a-la Command Barges and Lords with Warscythes, while opponents cannot charge you. Combo it with Grand Strategy to make him scoring and you have an ALMOST untouchable Dreadknight that can only be shot down... Hammer of Wrath is an attack at Initiative 10, base Strength, no AP. You still need to roll to Hit and Wound. DV8 Dreadknights with PT are considered Flying MC!? Where did you find the evidence? I always thought the fact PT made him a "MC moving like Jump Infantry" would make a "Flying MC" in 6th: it's what happens to winged daemon prince. However there was no clear evidence and someone could say he is just a MC with a "jump pack". Anyway DK is now classified as a "character" (rulebook appendix) I wonder if this will prevent him to score via grand strategy...I hope he will be able to score... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Dreadknights with PT are considered Flying MC!? Where did you find the evidence? I always thought the fact PT made him a "MC moving like Jump Infantry" would make a "Flying MC" in 6th: it's what happens to winged daemon prince.However there was no clear evidence and someone could say he is just a MC with a "jump pack". You are correct, I had forgotten about the specific wording. Dreadknight with Teleporter moves like Jump Infantry. The rules I'm referring to are specifically for Flying Monstrous Creatures. Overzealous me... DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I wonder if it will be possible to activate our force weapons off of hammer of wrath, giving our normal attacks instant death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Dreadknights with PT are considered Flying MC!? Where did you find the evidence? I always thought the fact PT made him a "MC moving like Jump Infantry" would make a "Flying MC" in 6th: it's what happens to winged daemon prince.However there was no clear evidence and someone could say he is just a MC with a "jump pack". You are correct, I had forgotten about the specific wording. Dreadknight with Teleporter moves like Jump Infantry. The rules I'm referring to are specifically for Flying Monstrous Creatures. Overzealous me... DV8 But there is still a great change a MC who moves like jump infantry is indeed a Flying Monstrous Creature. Deamon Prince with wings was a "MC moving like Jump Infantry" under 5th Edition, now it is a "Flying MC". I don't see why it should not happen with DK, especially since PT on DK is very expensive (daemon prince's wings cost less than half) I do believe DK with PT should a flying MC by logic. I only suppose many opponet players won't agree, unless it appears in the FAQ :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If the NDK with a PT isn't a flying MC, then what is it? Normal MC? So only a 6" Move. Jump Infantry? Or only 'moves like jump infantry'. Does it get the Hammer I10 attack? Does it get the JI increase to Charge ranges? I hope the FAQ covers all of this, but I doubt GW will be thorough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If the NDK with a PT isn't a flying MC, then what is it? Normal MC? So only a 6" Move. Jump Infantry? Or only 'moves like jump infantry'. Does it get the Hammer I10 attack? Does it get the JI increase to Charge ranges? I hope the FAQ covers all of this, but I doubt GW will be thorough. I strongly agree. All those points just to move of 12" or re-rolling charge distance and get a 30" movement once is too expesinve, especially when deamon princes can become flying MC with a third of PT cost. DK get hammer attacks anyway since all MC makes them. Here's my argument: Daemon Prince with wings "moves like jump infantry"in 5th edition and becomes a flying MC in 6th Dreadknight with PT "moves like jump infantry" in 5th thus he should be a flying MC in 6th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Totally agree. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Totally agree. :D I hope GW will agree with us when they will release the FAQ :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254695-6th-gk-now-that-we-have-the-wd/#findComment-3100770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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