6th edition and you

[khurdur]

Hello brethren....take a look at this, its been going all around B & C.

 

Core System

 

- Change to Pre-Measure like WHFB 8th Edition.

- Force Organization Chart is still in use, no use of Percentage

- Adding new FoC Slot called "Fortification" [0-1] / see below

- Phases remains the same, Movement, Shooting, and then Assault

- No Psychic Phase

- No Initiative Phase

 

 

Movement Phase

- Movement is pretty much the same. Infantry can move 6", Jump Infantry 12" and so on.

 

Shooting Phase

- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)

- Pistol is pretty much the same.

- New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving.

- Heavy Weapon can now be fired on the move, but will be subjected to 'snap fire' rule.

- "Snap Fire" allows certain weapon types to shoot even if moving, but with a BS of 1 (ie. 6 to hit)

- Blast Weapons cannot "snap fire"

- You can only killed as much models in target unit as you can actually see (and within max range).

- Casualties are now removed from closest to furthest.

- Wound Allocation is completely changed.

- When shooting at unit partially in cover, player can choose to "Focus Fire" to kill only models in the open (or in a less covered position).

- You can now throw (most) grenades in the Shooting Phase at the range of 8", limited to 1 grenade per unit per Phase.

 

 

Assault Phase

- Charge Distance is now 2D6" adding together.

- Unit can elect to "Overwatch" if being assaulted. Simply a "Stand and Shoot 40K version" - resolved at BS1, Template does D3 hit instead.

- Overwatch can be done only once per turn.

- Unit declaring multiple assaults will suffer from "Disoriented Charge" (not get +1A)

- Unit assaulting multiple enemy unit is subjected to multiple Overwatch.

- Unlike Stand & Shoot, Overwatch does NOT cause Morale Check or Pinning.

- Pile-in reduced to 3" and is done at the model's Initiative Step (ie. before the model could strike)

- Casualties are removed from the front rank, like the case of Shooting Phase

- Units can elect to auto-fail Morale Check at the end of Combat if all models in the unit cannot hurt the attacker at all (ie. S3 vs T10).

- Challenges are in for IC.

- Close-Combat Weapon now have AP value, ranging from AP- to AP1. Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition.

- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)

- Fists and Chainfists are Sx2 AP2 and Unwieldy (Intiative reduced to 1), Thunder Hammers has "Concussive" (the exact (or almost) same rules as in 5th Edition)

 

 

Vehicles

- Vehicles are now limited to move at the maximum of 12" in the Movement Phase (though it can move further in the Shooting Phase if desired)

- Vehicles can opt to move "Flat Out" in the Shooting Phase, adding an extra 6".

- Vehicles movement and weapons. Defensive and Primary Weapons are gone. You can fire all of your weapons at most of the time. But moving faster will result in less weapon fired at basic BS, the rest will be fired at BS1 (Snap Fire)

- Fast Skimmer moving Flat Out can be more lethal (fire more weapons than in 5th and moving faster [12" Normal + 18" Flat Out])

- Skimmer got a cover save called Jink, basically 5+ cover save and improved to 4+ if going Flat Out.

- Vehicles count as WS0 (auto-hit) if stationary and WS1 (3+ hit) if moved. No idea on how Fast or Skimmer will have bonus, as cover aren't used in Assault.

- Flyers are now in, with its own rules.

- Flyers can move very fast and is hard to target (6 only to hit) unless the shooter has Skystrike rules that allow them to shoot flyer at normal BS.

- When moving fast (called "Zooming") Flyers cannot move less than 12" and cannot disembark any models.

 

Vehicle and Damage

- New Vehicle Damage Chart, one to rule them all. 1-2 being Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 and 5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised, and 6 Explodes! You only roll the table if the shot penetrate the Armour. Wrecks occur only from taking certain amount of Glancing Hits.

- AP 2 weapons add +1 to the chart, while AP1 adds +2.

- AP"-" is no longer -1 on the table.

- Open-Topped is +1 as well.

- No more "Half Strength if the center hole is off", you always use full strength for any blast that hits the vehicle.

- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck.

- Vehicles has 3 or 4 HP, notable 4 HP vehicles are Ghost Ark, Land Raider, and Monolith. Details can be found in the rulebook appendix. (Bloodwing stated that some player propose that the formula for Hull Points is Front + Side(once) + Rear divide by 3. Fractions rounding down - this seems to be true.

 

 

Vehicle and Passenger

- Passenger can only disembark if vehicle move 0-6".

- Disembarking rules changes, you now place models in base contact with the access point and move up to 6" - this is the furthest distance the unit may move.

- Embarking is pretty much the same.

- Unit count as moving if the vehicle moved 0.1-6", and can only "Snap Fire" if the vehicle move 6.01 - 12"

- Open-topped transport rules are the same (access points and fire points)

- Exploding Flyer that has "zoomed" will result in a S10 no armour save on its passenger. And some sort of S6 Large Blast at any unit under the point the vehicle goes on flame.

 

 

Psychic Power

- NO PSYCHIC PHASE (or whatever people are assuming they are)

- Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed.

- Types of psychic power, witchfire (psychic shooting attack), focused witchfire (has a chance to allow player to choose the target model when removing casualty by rolling low scores on Psychic Test), nova (affects all enemy units within range), maelstrom (affecting both friendly and enemy within range), blessing (augmented friend), and malediction (de-buff enemy).

- "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker.

- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer.

- There are 5 new Disciplines of Psychic Powers in the BRB, each has 7 Powers. Each army can access different Disciplines, some cannot use them at all.

- Casting Psychic Power remains the same as in 5th.

- Psychic Powers now have 2 level, calling Warp Charge 1 and 2. Mastery Level 1 can only use Warp Charge 1 power, while Mastery Level 2 allows you to cast 2 "Warp Charge 1" power or 1 "Warp Charge 2". Higher Mastery allows for more.

- Each Psyker generate Warp Charge equal to his Mastery Level.

 

Characters

- Look Out, Sir! is in. Grants character 50% chance to evade the attack if he's within 6" of friendly unit (works in combat too), resolved each successful Look Out Sir on the models within 6" instead.

- Look Out Sir! is improved to 2+ for Independent Character.

- Character can issue / accept challenges.

- One model in your army will be the Warlord (one with highest LD), Warlord can roll on a table (there's 3 table, you can choose 1) to see what benefit he receive. Examples are units within 12" can use his LD, the Character count as Scoring Units, Warlord has FNP if within 3" of Objective.

 

 

Tidbits

- Fortification - a new addition to the FoC, limited to 0-1 this allows player to purchase some kind of terrain for their army. Expensive one are Fortress of Redemption (220 points) and cheap ones are Aegis Defence Lines (50 points)

- Allies - a new system that allows player to have a detachment made of another army in the list. Allies works like WFB8th Edition with best buddies, normal allies, and untrusted. The detachment is limited to 1HQ and 1 Troop(compulsory) and additional 1 Troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support.

 

Missions

- There are 3 Deployment Types, one being the classic Pitched Battle, second one is reversed Pitched Battle (deploying along the short table edges), and third one is a triangular deployment.

- Selecting deployment zone remains the same, roll-off to see who deploys first and go first.

- Seize Initiative is still the same.

- 6 Missions with 2 Level Objectives. Primary Objectives grants more Victory Points, but harder to achieve. Secondary Objective is always 1 VP and has 3 of them. First Blood (for getting the first "kill point", Slay the Warlord (for killing the enemy Warlord - aka. general), and Linebreaker (having your units in enemy deployment zone at the end of the game)

- Deep Strike Mishap is softened now: 1 - You're Dead, 2-3 Misplaced, and 4-6 Delayed.

- Feel No Pain dropped to 5+

- There's still only 1 Level of Instant Death, no Instant Death(x)

- Fleet allows for re-rolls on Run and possibly Assault distances.

- "Hammer of Wrath" allows model to make single attack at their base strength before combat on the turn it assault. Jump Infantry and Bike have it.

- Monstrous Creature can make "Smash" attack, forfeit half of its attack to resolve attack at Sx2 against vehicle.

- Flying Monstrous Creature can make two mode of movement. One being 24" move, performing D3+1 "Vector Strike" on a single unit within the path and then shoot up to two weapons or run 2D6" in the shooting phase. However, it cannot assault or being assaulted unless it get shot and fall down from the sky first (can't remember how you fire at it, 6 only?) Should it fall from the sky, it will take S9 hit and can now be assaulted as normal.

- Sniper has rule to allow them to allocate wounds to the model of your choice if you roll a 6 when rolling to hit.

- Rage is now +2 Attack on assault.

- Many new generalization of rules...such as Armourbane (roll 2d6 for armour penetration) and Fleshbane (2+ to wound)....this also expands to weapons as well (unwieldy, concussive, etc.)

 

how do you think the new edition will affect our current dex? I think we do have some things going for us....

[khurdur]

Our teminators for example. They can no longer be slain by power weapon elites like sang guard or grey knights, We can take a beefy unit of 7 with MoTZ, combi-plasma (remember you can use rapid fire and move now), a few champs with powerfists and maybe a reaper AC and march around wrecking havoc. Only other terminators can take us, and with +1 attack form the champs and MoTZ I think we have the advantage.

 

Daemon princes. Still solid. Can run around like crazy, and with the nerf to psychic hoods and go crazy with powers as well, and add to our resistance roll. No psychic defence for chaos?? Not anymore!

 

Lords are still meh, but I think is to be said for a lord with daemon weapon in termie armour, as he is now nigh indestructible in cc. Everyones fav model is now usable, I think.

 

Troops. Berzerkers are still ok, but FC now only gives a S bonus, so they've taken a bit of a hit.

Plagues-FNP has been reduced, but works onn anything that doesn't get ID, so it is weaker agianst light fire, but can be used on plasma wounds, the bane of PMs.

Bog CSM. I think they are winner now. With the ability to move and fire rapid fire guns, 5+ cover instead of 4+, a squad of 10 with 2x plasma is going to be scary. That and the fact that plasma can easliy glanced vehicles into wrecks means they are winner. PMs of course can do the same role.

 

Raptor are nicer, with impact hits, but are still just alright.

 

Hvy Support-

Vindicator-still a bit vulnerable to penetrations, but unlucky glances will just knock off a Hull point instead of supressing it, plus the fact it now always hits a vehicle with full S means I think it is more viable.

 

Oblits-still solid I think, but are hurt by 5+ cover.

 

Defiler-solid, with 4 hull points needs a lot of glances to wreck it, but penetrations still blow it up. benefits from improved balst vs vehicle rules too.

 

Havocs-better because glances can wreck vehicles, and what scores more glances than 4x autocannons?

 

Not such a bad turnout, i think!

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So what bonus is there now to Thousand sons having Slow and purposful? over then to drive us into rhinos?

[khurdur]

haven't seen anything on slow and purposeful...but the reduction to 5+ save makes AP3 rounds hurt MEQ more...

[Son of Rawl]

Really looking forward to this edition :), thanks for the info so far dude

[TheDarkApostle]

Any word on armour saves and invulnerable saves? Same as before or similar to fantasy where you get both unless you happen to meet the rare armour ignoring weapon?

 

TDA

[Plaguecaster]

Any idea how Sorcerers are affected especially with new psychic stuff also have force weapons changed or anything????

[Paulochromis]

oops, read this earlier and forgot to thank khurdur for his excellent summary and subsequent analysis :D

[Snejk]

Our teminators for example. They can no longer be slain by power weapon elites like sang guard or grey knights, We can take a beefy unit of 7 with MoTZ, combi-plasma (remember you can use rapid fire and move now), a few champs with powerfists and maybe a reaper AC and march around wrecking havoc. Only other terminators can take us, and with +1 attack form the champs and MoTZ I think we have the advantage.

 

I think i must have some sort of precognition since i just built and started painting myself two new four man MoTZ squads of Terminators, adding some much needed fire power to my existing 4 man squad. MoTZ has been my favourite mark on Terminators since I began playing a year or so ago.

 

I loaded them with 2 fists, 1 chainfist and a power weapon, 3 combi meltas and an AC. And when I add the fifth member i plan on equiping it with a fourth combi-melta and a second power weapon. Preferably an axe.

 

KAPOW! KAPOW!

[khurdur]

no problem lads...its been a while since we CSMers have something to look forward to.

teutonic avenger- force weapons are at AP3-meaning they can't break through terminator armour....think about it, grey knights can kill terminators in cc with anything except daemon hammers !

 

saves-its still only one save or the other....unless you have feel no pain that can now be also used against anything that isn't ID.

 

I've also been thinking about it, 7 Motz termines with a TDA chaos lord in the unit, plenty of plasma, champipns and powerfists to go round.

Termicide will also be better, as the mishap chart is more forgiving now.

[Snejk]

I'm not going to be too excited until i hold a copy of the 6th edition in my hands and can read what the rules really say though. But they seem promising.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Daemon princes. Still solid. Can run around like crazy, and with the nerf to psychic hoods and go crazy with powers as well, and add to our resistance roll. No psychic defence for chaos?? Not anymore!

 

Adding onto the Daemon Prince. With the new Warlord rule with the Daemon Prince being a HQ chose, he may possible become a scoring unit in object base mission which is really good. With a good toughness & being harder to hit if he arm with wings. But you do have to roll for the abilty your Daemon Prince or other HQ gets from one of the three tables for being a Warlord.

 

For the Terminators side - It all looking good. Also for deep striken as well, the White Dwarf commented that on turn 2 we can arrive on a 3+, any reserve & flyer. As they commented how there astropath brought them on a 2+ on turn 2 for there own units.

 

I am looking forward to the new rules. One thing I would like to see is what the mission will be like.

 

IP

[Skaltak]

It looks like they are moving back to the (very) old rule set from back in the early 90's - Overwatch, throwing grenades, remove dead from the front.... I might just start playing the game again. Oh wait... Ive just looked at the price of the rule book... maybe not. lol

[abadizzle]

My bigget concern right now about 6th affecting chaos is in regards to Khârn and his chainaxe... Will he be forced to strike @ initiative 1 as per the power axe rules? ...god that would make him unusable... Here's hoping that's not the case. On a positive note I can not freakin wait to ally w some daemons!

[Brother Ambroz]

Abaddon may have just become more viable now...... looks like I'll be able to use my new counts-as-abby after all..... :pinch:

[Araziel]

Something tells me that we'll be seeing a lot of Abbaddon.

 

I'm not sure why, but I have a gut feeling that he'll unlock Terminators as Troops when the new Codex hits.

[abadizzle]

Well keep in mind abaddon will probably strike at ap3 in CC as daemon weapons are all classified as power weapons... Ugh daemon weapons should be ap1 as the ren reality apart and all... Heh whatever we'll see what happens

[Brother Ambroz]

I seriously doubt abbadon's str 8 daemon weapon will strike at ap 3. Daemon weapons will likely have their own classification. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Excessus]

I take it as you buy a "power weapon" and it gets rules for what's actually on the model. Abbadon has a sword and a LC, both which are AP3, an axe-wielding daemon prince would get +1S AP2 and I1(but he strikes at normal I anyway because he's big and cool)...

[abadizzle]

So 'unique force weapons' use all the characters special abilities for that weapon but count as ap3... So with Khârn for instance I bet he won't lose initiative or get +1 strength but will very likely be ap3... Time will tell!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So 'unique force weapons' use all the characters special abilities for that weapon but count as ap3... So with Khârn for instance I bet he won't lose initiative or get +1 strength but will very likely be ap3... Time will tell!

 

The thing is, that little AP rumor adjunct states that "special power weapons from a codex" default to AP3. If memory serves, Gorechild's rule doesn't call it a power weapon, it says no armor saves allowed. So he might end up AP2; all depends on the FAQ, I guess.

[abadizzle]

Unfortunately (perhaps, we'll see) the rules for Gorechild specifically state "In addition, Gorechild is treated as a power weapon and, against vehicles, adds and extra D6 to Khârn's armour penetration rolls." Hah that's why I freaked in the first place... Same as Daemon weapons specifically stated in the chart as "Is a power weapon." In fact Ahriman's black staff is "It counts as a force weapon, and in addition..." Fabius doesn't have to worry about all this nonsense, Lucius is armed with a "Power Sword" Typhus has "The manreaper is both a Daemon Weapon and a Force Weapon" and finally Huron also has a "Power weapon"... In the form of an axe no less... Hah this all points to ap3 if the rumors are true so far. Except for Huron of course who has an axe and if those are I1 why on earth would you ever elect to use that over the powerfist. Whatevs... Speculation

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, I doubt that "reduced Initiative" means I1. It probably just means that any model with a power axe counts their Initiative as 1 lower than it is when using that weapon, so you've got the choice of striking slightly slower, but slightly stronger, or far slower but incredibly strong.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I stand corrected.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, I could be wrong. I'm just guessing there, rather than basing it on anything concrete. I just can't see GW penalising people who converted their models to have a slightly different weapon, when it's currently entirely legal to do so.