David the Despoiler Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I read the article in the White Dwarf and Thousand Sons Sorcerers WILL be able to exchange one psychic power that they purchased for a rulebook lore power. This could mean that an army of Thousand Sons could very well create some of the most powerful anti-psycher AND powerful lists seen to date. The bolter buff, the psychic buff (including the defensive buff) and the cover nerf could very well turn them into one of our most powerful units. Not to mention, we don't know what kinds of buffs or nerfs Slow and Purposeful got. It could actually be a worthwhile special rule, or it could be the same as it always was except it doesn't affect Bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Unfortunately, according to the information we have (I'm still holding out for deity-specific power swap lists), Ahriman and Aspiring Sorcerers don't get access to Divination... probably for exactly this reason: To avoid us Overwatch firing out AP3 bolters at BS4 (instead of BS crap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Only thing I have seen rumoured that I don't like is the change to Perils of the Warp that don't allow saves of any kind, as now we at least have the invuln one even if we do have to re-roll it. But I guess if it's like that we can adjust to it, and yes it seems to be going back to the mid 90's rules in many ways which I love as those are the rules I first started playing under. :cuss ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The axe has the same rule as the fists/hammers do, I1... If it didn't, everybody would take it over the others. It IS the only ap2 of the bunch after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Lots of conflicting reports whether axes are I=1 or I-1. From what I've seen so far original post on original board has it as I-1 unlike most reports which magically seems to have typoed it to I=1. Still waiting for the book for hard confirmation though. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The axe has the same rule as the fists/hammers do, I1... If it didn't, everybody would take it over the others. It IS the only ap2 of the bunch after all... And if it did, nobody would take axes, as powerfists would just be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The axe has the same rule as the fists/hammers do, I1... If it didn't, everybody would take it over the others. It IS the only ap2 of the bunch after all... And if it did, nobody would take axes, as powerfists would just be better. But axes are cheaper! Maybe it doesn't matter much if you just choose the one, but if you are going to equip a squad with them, say a squad of chaos termies, it gets expensive fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abadizzle Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Oh absolutely, FREE power axes on chaos terminators is amazing... 35 pts for a S5 ap2 power weapon wielding combi-melta'ing walking tank sounds like a deal to me... The initiative reduction shouldn't hurt termies too bad because nothing short of other initiative 1 weapons can pierce their armor in CC. Power axes are a big win for chaos termies in my opinion. But sergeants, ICs, etc should leave em at home. Toss a chainfist or 2 into the squad and you have a very versatile, albeit slow, killing machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 "- Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed." Litlle bit offtopic but i just wonder, how does this interact with an Eldar Ghost helm, the items gives a save vs perils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abadizzle Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Just speculating here... But the 5th edition rulebook FAQ had a question along the lines of "will you FAQ or errata wargear for individual army's wargear that now seem to have no use in 5th edition" and the short answer was "no, wait until a new codex comes out" I'm not necessarily saying that I expect the ghost helm to be useless now, but its entirely within GWs power to do so. Also, has anyone heard anything about whether or not a 'fearless' IC leading a non-fearless squad will in turn make that squad fearless? Man I'd love a terminator retinue for my warlord... But not if there's a chance they'll flee from battle after a few wounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 "- Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed." Litlle bit offtopic but i just wonder, how does this interact with an Eldar Ghost helm, the items gives a save vs perils. well unless an errate changes it codex > rule book . So anyone who is not an eldar with ghost helm gets no save , and an eldar with it gets a save. at least that is how it should work with RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David the Despoiler Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The axe has the same rule as the fists/hammers do, I1... If it didn't, everybody would take it over the others. It IS the only ap2 of the bunch after all... And if it did, nobody would take axes, as powerfists would just be better. But axes are cheaper! Maybe it doesn't matter much if you just choose the one, but if you are going to equip a squad with them, say a squad of chaos termies, it gets expensive fast! Not only are they cheaper, but you can also pair axes with pistols. You can't pair a fist with anything in our Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, even if they are init 1, axes are looking like the dominant power weapon variety by a fairly wide margin. Power fists and chain fists might still have a place (gotta have a backup weapon for walkers, after all), but power swords, mauls, and lances all look pretty sad by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D00M Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If you can only disembark after moving 6 then it looks like Rhino/Chimera rush has taken a HUGE nerf which is very exciting :D Transports are going to have to move flat out at first bringing them 18inchs across the board and then move 6 and unload. Hopefully this means you can just wait for transports to come to you, move forward and then meltagun them to death before the passengers disembark. Might consider footslogging Plague Marines more now with the Rapid Fire range upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ironicly the current Chaos Codex seems to work way better in 6th than it did in 5th. Matters only for a month or so but still: -Daemon Princes by far the most cost effective Flying MC's. Even the psychic powers are usefull again. Heck, you could field Tzeentch Daemon Princes with BoT and Breath now and be effective if you want. -Terminators with combiplasmas (and some meltas maybe) are even better now. -Plague Marine squads with doubleplasma are strong again. -Predators with AC/LC are fine choices now, although Oblits are still pretty good. (potential increase in Lasscannons and Lances might see them die easier though) -Bikes even got a boost lol. You can still field them with only 3 guys with 2 specials, hoozah. -Zerker Rush in Rhinos got a boost I'd say. 18" Flat-out Rhinos and you can throw Krak Grenades at range now, how cool is that? They completely destroy vehicles in combat now too. Oh and Fearless is pretty godly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 in deed lords and sorc specialy with us getting new psychic powers seem sad[unless they do something like sorc having psy lvl 3 and DP having psy lvl 1 or something] . oblits are ok , very nice if someone wants to play a reserv army [they have deep strike so they count for the 50% limit] . one could make a fun list out of terminators oblits , 2DPs some demons [as in codex demons demons] and token 5 man plasma pm squads for scoring . oddly enough not counting the demons that is how my list looked like in 4th ed 0_o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 50% limit, jeske? Forced deep strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, the general rule is that you can only resereve 50% of your army now. Makes Droppods more viable, so I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, the general rule is that you can only resereve 50% of your army now. Makes Droppods more viable, so I like it. Onesies and twosies, sure. But does the 50% limit mean that you can no longer pod your entire army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmCjkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 What do you guys think about power axe vs power fist on power armor now? On terminators it's simple, the power fist is higher strength with all else being equal, so the power first is understandably more expensive. But on power armor we can use a pistol/2nd CCW for an extra attack like David the Despoiler mentioned. So if we ignore points cost, the axe is S5 I1 AP2 +1A and the fist is S8 I1 AP2. So the fist wounds a little bit better, but the extra attack makes a huge difference! Especially on squad sergeants without many attacks to begin with. Perhaps this means CSM and Plague Marine squads let by Champions with axes now, instead of fists? Combined with the ability to flee from big guys like dreadnoughts, axes seem like a more cost efficient AND more powerful option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 On joe Champions? Yes, I'd rather take the axe. The extra attack makes it worthwhile overall the Strength loss from not taking the power fist. Termies though have no use for axes since they can't pull the extra attack anyway. . . .and yet their models come with multiple axes, but I'll leave that to the Termie discussion thread. Personally, I see Chosen squads stocked up full with plasma as being extremely powerful now. They can wreck vehicles more easily, and they get full-range fire on the move, which if you infiltrate them, you'll be inside 24" of something anyway. Should be, anyway. Time to go rip off those meltas and flamers I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmCjkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I did some mathhammer for the axe vs fist discussions to see if it's worth it on champions. For base 2 attacks (CSM/Plague Marines): Axe is better for T4 and lower, fist is better for T5 and higher. For base 3 attacks (CSM/Plague Marines on the charge, Berzerkers, characters): Axe is still better for T4 and lower, fist is better for T5 and higher. For base 4 attacks (Berzerkers and characters on the charge): Axe is better for T3 and below, fist is better for T5 and higher, T4 is a wash. So against Necron elite, multiwound models (for instant death), monstrous creatures, and vehicles the fist gets the upper hand while the axe is almost always better for killing run of the mill MEQ. And the axe is a bunch cheaper! I'm starting to think my non-dedicated assault CSM and Plague Marines should have axes, which admittedly don't have the flexibility of a fist but can handle typical MEQ targets just fine and is cheaper. I wouldn't draw conclusions about Berzerker champions or characters because those are the units most likely to assault anything and the high strength would be more valuable to have as insurance. Besides, if I'm trying to kill dreadnoughts or monstrous creatures in close combat with my regular CSM or Plague Marines I'm probably going to lose anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Onesies and twosies, sure. But does the 50% limit mean that you can no longer pod your entire army? I assume you still can, because Droppods háve to start in reserve. Can't imagine the rulebook forcing you to deploy while keeping the empty pods in reserve, that would be plain silly now wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 anything that has the deep strike rule doesnt count for the 50% limit . So for a chaos army made out of DP[wings deep strike unless FAQ hits them] , oblits[deep strike] termis [deepstrike] pms[no deep strike] 1 unit of bloodies[own army rules put you in to reservs] and herald [own army rules put you in to reserv] , my 50% comes out of 2 units of pms . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I did some mathhammer for the axe vs fist discussions to see if it's worth it on champions.For base 2 attacks (CSM/Plague Marines): Axe is better for T4 and lower, fist is better for T5 and higher. For base 3 attacks (CSM/Plague Marines on the charge, Berzerkers, characters): Axe is still better for T4 and lower, fist is better for T5 and higher. For base 4 attacks (Berzerkers and characters on the charge): Axe is better for T3 and below, fist is better for T5 and higher, T4 is a wash. So against Necron elite, multiwound models (for instant death), monstrous creatures, and vehicles the fist gets the upper hand while the axe is almost always better for killing run of the mill MEQ. And the axe is a bunch cheaper! I'm starting to think my non-dedicated assault CSM and Plague Marines should have axes, which admittedly don't have the flexibility of a fist but can handle typical MEQ targets just fine and is cheaper. I wouldn't draw conclusions about Berzerker champions or characters because those are the units most likely to assault anything and the high strength would be more valuable to have as insurance. Besides, if I'm trying to kill dreadnoughts or monstrous creatures in close combat with my regular CSM or Plague Marines I'm probably going to lose anyway... I just thought of something else, though. Squad Leaders can be called out in challenges. So all the mathhammer in the world won't help if your axe-wielding champ declines and can't fight or accepts and gets butchered at I4. Power swords or mauls might end up being better choices than axes for generic squad champs; they're both at-I weapons, the sword giving AP3 and the maul giving S6 AP4 and Concussive, and both still pull the extra attack from the pistol. Something to think about. Onesies and twosies, sure. But does the 50% limit mean that you can no longer pod your entire army? I assume you still can, because Droppods háve to start in reserve. Can't imagine the rulebook forcing you to deploy while keeping the empty pods in reserve, that would be plain silly now wouldn't it? That's my opinion of course, but I'm paranoid about these sorts of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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