Grey Knights NFW in 6th AP value rules

[Spartans]

From krittoris on BOLS forum

 

FORCE WEAPONS?

force weapons are as follows

 

grey knights force weapons are AP3 like power weapons

 

force staff - 2+ strength AP4

force axe - 1+ strenght, AP1, INITATIVE 1.

force sword - ap 3 normal initative.

 

grey knight and units or models with special force weapons do NOT follow this chart and use there codex versions.

 

to show what a force weapon type your using, you just look at the model and whatever it is modelled with is what you get, no points differential

.

[DinoDoc]

That one I'm gonna have to see the rulebook myself before I believe.

[BrotherWasted]

In other words, nothing changes, and Codex overrides BRB, as current?

 

Meh. Everyone has a force weapon, is all that matters.

[Gentlemanloser]

Power Wepaons were confirmed as AP2 not AP3 weren't they?

[RedemptionNL]

I'd hold out with worrying about the AP values of every special close combat weapon until the codex specific 6th edition FAQs and Errata roll out.

 

Power Wepaons were confirmed as AP2 not AP3 weren't they?

 

Actually, it seems most power weapons like Power Swords and Lightning Claws are going to be AP3, but things like Power Axes (+1S, I1), Power Fists and Thunderhammers are going to be AP2. There are also separate rules for Power Mauls (S+2 AP4 or something) and Power Lances(?).

[Spartans]

From same guy

 

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2186&d=1340707348

[RedemptionNL]

As the 'Unusual Force Weapons' entry says, they're base AP3, but check the weapon's entry. We won't know for sure until the Errata/FAQ comes out. But yeah, sounds like most Nemesis weapons are going to be AP3, with the Daemon Hammer, Greatsword and Doomfist AP2 and the Warding Stave AP4.

[Twin .44]

There have been so many different confirmations out there about what every AP value is that it's starting to drive me a little nuts. case in point:

 

Power axes are +1 S I1 AP2

Power Axes are +1 S -1I AP2

 

Power Swords are AP3

Power Swords are AP3 w/ 5++ parry rule

 

Force Weapons are AP2

Force Weapons are their weapon type (see above) + Instant Death

 

Power Mauls/staffs are +2S AP3

Power Mauls/staffs are normal initiative AP4

 

In other words, I think everyone is just throwing out their opinion on what the rules are (probably by looking at WD), saying they have the rulebook, meanwhile it's nothing but conjecture.

 

Sorry to be a party pooper, but everyone should just wait a few days instead of speculating. There are too many "confirmations" out there and now we're just believing the newest stuff because it's so close to the release date.

[RedemptionNL]

Judging from the official rulebook pictures posted in this very thread:

 

Power axes are +1 S I1 AP2

Power Swords are AP3

Force Weapons are their weapon type (see above) + Force

Power staves are normal initiative AP4 + concussive

 

Any other force weapon has a base AP3 + follows the rules in the weapon entry.

[RedemptionNL]

Hmm, the text above the force weapons entry says Force Halberds count as Force Axes. If that also counts for Nemesis Force Halberds, they'll be S+1 I3 AP2.

[Spartans]

But the first line says "Thathas no further special rules" and NFW do So fall into unusual force weapons IMO which are further down.

[RedemptionNL]

Ah, true. We'll just have to wait for the GK Errata to see what they cooked up. I wouldn't mind them as I3 force axes at least, would make them decent against units with powerfists/klaws/hammers and a 2+ save, and quit the moaning of players that keep saying I6 is so overpowered. :huh:

[the jeske]

if they were basic i3 +1str and then the Nemezis rules from the GK would kick in then the actual model would be ap 2 str 5[without hammerhand] and i5 . The GK ones have their own rules and those will be covered in FAQ.

[Oiad]

Exactly. Codex over Rulebook too, etc. Unless they FAQ it, Halberds and the other NFWs will remain as they are written in the C:GK foremost.

[Gentlemanloser]

So that would make Nemesis Force Weapons AP -, as the Codex doesn't list any AP for them, but rather refers back to the BRB rules for Force Weapons. :lol:

[Vor]

Why would anyone use a power axe? They're pathetic in comparison to Powerfists.

 

So that would make Nemesis Force Weapons AP -, as the Codex doesn't list any AP for them, but rather refers back to the BRB rules for Force Weapons. :lol:

 

Yeah, in that they'd keep their special GK rules for the nemesis bit, and the force weapon rules for the force weapon bit.

[RedemptionNL]

Why would anyone use a power axe? They're pathetic in comparison to Powerfists.

The same reasons someone would pick a power weapon over lightning claws, or a power fist over a chainfist or a thunderhammer, or even a bolter over a stormbolter. Axes are cheaper in point cost, and not every model has access to wargear like powerfists. Besides that, you need a second powerfist for an extra attack, while a normal close combat weapon or a pistol would suffice for the axe.

[boreas]

One thing everyone is wondering is rending... I know it's not about our NFW, but our Psycannons do get rending. Rumors say rending might reduce the weapon's AP (to AP 2 or even AP1, rather than "ignore armour save"). So +1 or +2 (!) to the vehicle damage roll?

 

Phil

[Zeratil]

An interesting titbit from someone with a rulebook:

 

Wound allocation:

choose the model closest to the firing unit. this model then takes a wound. if it passes it takes another wound, this continues until that model fails. his wounds are reduced by one. If this reduces his wounds to 0 he is removed as a casualty. you then pick the next closest model to the firing unit and repeat the process. This process is essentially the same if you have different armour saves/toughness/wargear/weapons. So it is the closest model that matters. So potentially one model could take 20 wounds for an entire squad - go space wolf terminator squad leaders...

 

I think this explains why the stave is so expensive, given that it's closest to furthest in CC as well, if you have a warding stave wielder at the front you can take those AP2 Fist/Hammer hits on him till he fails. Not sure it's worth it for the cost, but on average it would take 6 fist wounds to kill such a model, so it's worth considering at least.

 

Oh and rending makes the wound/pen roll of a 6 AP2.

[Oiad]

So that would make Nemesis Force Weapons AP -, as the Codex doesn't list any AP for them, but rather refers back to the BRB rules for Force Weapons. :)

As Vor said, unless you're inferring that the 6E BRB says Force Weapons are AP-. Most of the rumours are pointing towards FWs as minimum AP3, making most NFWs AP3 too, unless you know something the rest of us don't.

[mjc]

Looks like force weapons are AP3 <_< http://www.natfka.blogspot

Despite the nerf in AP, force weapons & instant death will be the only way to deny the new and improved "FNP". This will be key when facing death company, as I'm sure we'll be seeing more of. I guess the only question will be if we have to activate our force weapons in order to deny the FNP.

[Gentlemanloser]

The ID activates after a wound is taken, so after FNP.

 

As Vor said, unless you're inferring that the 6E BRB says Force Weapons are AP-. Most of the rumours are pointing towards FWs as minimum AP3, making most NFWs AP3 too, unless you know something the rest of us don't.

 

Not at all, I'm simply pointing out that our NFW will aso follow the rules for FW in the BRB, like they do now. :D

 

So it's not really Codex > BRB, as our codex refers to the BRB for FW rules.

[Zeratil]

The ID activates after a wound is taken, so after FNP.

 

But as soon as a wound is taken, all remaining NFW wounds cause instant death, slightly odd that you might get FNP for the first model to fail his FNP save, but for none of the subsequent ones.

[shortysl]

The ID activates after a wound is taken, so after FNP.

 

After a wound is taken, so the model would suffer Instant Death, negating it's Feel No Pain save. Feel No Pain is not a saving throw, so the Instant Death test would come before the Feel No Pain check. A model isn't going to get a Feel No Pain save against the first wound suffered, only for the rest of the wounds inflicted to ignore it.

[Gentlemanloser]

You only 'suffer a wound' *after* you fail your FNP save.

 

Also, it's only other 'wounds caused' that inflict ID after sucessful activation. And you only 'cause wounds' after the target fails thier FNP.

 

An activated NFW doesn't inflict ID until after it successfully wounds. Which is after FNP.

 

Edit: I know i've got some phrases wrong here. Please don't make me go upstairs to get my codex. :D