NightHunters Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Ok Before reading the below know this. I am currently suffering from a severe case of "Wall of Text" as trying to get an image of my marines is slightly tricky (have a look at my colour scheme on my WIP thread and you'll see the complications) Lacking details on battles etc as trying hard to avoid any cliche too obvious. Still working on the beliefs. Really rough working copy at the mo but if anybody does have any ideas, helpful comments by all means let me know Thus I give you the massively WIP: Index Astartes <<Chapter Badge>> The Night Hunters [imageright][/imageright] Origins Exact details are vague; much of the information portrayed below relies on such sketchy reports that survived the unfortunate passing of inquisitor Staab Von Neugeir. According to ancient (and heavily corrupted) Administratum data files the Night Hunters were formed from the Imperial Fists gene seed at the time of the third founding. To a degree this seems to be corroborated by Inquisitor Von Neugier who allegedly had an opportunity to study the Night Hunters data stacks which state that they were formed “…..after a period of conflict against the Traitor Legions, it remains unclear whether the period refers to the Scouring or the first Black Crusade…” and the new chapter was headed up by “..."legion units” colloquially referred to as Rogal's Electrical and Mechanical Engineers under Battle Captain Borsig…”. An odd choice if true, Borsig having been known in great part for his actions with the Imperial Fists armour companies and even then usualy noted for his mastery in liasing with Ad Mech units, the marshaling of reserve armour units and field maintenance divisions. None the less this is given some credence on looking through the Night Hunters current armoury. How they came to take Preuseus as a home world remains a mystery. Unsubstantiated Rumours pervade that some early members of the High Lords of Terra mistrusted Guilliman and his “Empire building” in the galactic east and were keen to maintain an equilibrium in the west by gracing this world to the sons of Dorn. There remain large gaps in the history of the Hunters, it is alleged that there are decades at a time when all active units have been recalled to Preuseus and combat operations cease, but no Imperial reports of recent history indicate that the Hunters have conducted their operations in anything other than an exemplary mannor as would be expected of the sons of Dorn. It remains unclear whether other Astartes units repoted under the designation “Night Hunters” sporting entirely divergent colours and markings are to be associated along side these sons of Dorn or whether they form entirly separate units Home World Presuseus A large planet, equivalent in size to some of the smaller gas giants in the Sol system, situated on the far western fringe of the galactic plate beyond the macharian cluster. The Surface of Preuseus is a vast land mass without oceans but instead brocken up by giant fresh water lakes and rivers stretching across continents. Climates range from the frozen polar wastes, over mountain ranges that seem to pierce the very fabric of the skies, aross arid deserts and vast rolling plains through the equitorial forests. Primary orbital scans seem to show a backword world, similar to the medieval times of Terra with city states, the buildings timber framed with slate tiles, centered around large Gothic fortifications of rough hewn granite blocks and smaller walled farming communes spread thinly over the land. The fields are ploughed by equine teams and herds of docile bovids graze peacefully in the meadows. There seem to be few foundaries, all given over to the manufacture of simple steal tools and weapoms, plough shears and horse shoes. But looks can be deceiving. The people of Preuseus emphasise Proffessionalism, Aggressiveness, Militarism and Conservatism. A proud People where Noble houses rule their city states with fair but iron fists and honour duels are common through all walks of life. Almost from birth every child is trained in the martial skills of pugilism, archery, fencing and in the noble houses the Joust. Each City-state retains a standing army of professional soldiery and in addition all able-bodied men (and woman) serve in auxiliary regiments. The auxiliary regiments are rotated every 4 months allowing the populace to return to their civilian roles whilst keeping a core of professional troopers active at all times. Unlike many other societies, the Nobility of Preuseus does not try and shirk their responsibilities. In fact it is a matter of great pride to all families, high born or no, to serve in the armed forces and to move through the ranks. Run as an absolute Meritocracy, blue blood does not guarantee rank. All regiments maintain a cadet cadre. All males and those females that wish for a career in the military must join the cadets at 7 terran standard years or sooner. They spend 9 months out of 12 with their regiments where scant regard is given to their age and the diminutive size of all but the youngest as they learn the art of soldiering leading them to learn and adapt quickly to the rugged life this brings with it. Perhaps rather incongruously, a visit to the cavernous armouries that supply these forces will show them bristling with weapons of war quite at odds with the portrayed medieval visage; Ranks of indigineous Leman Russ variants sit beside Local variant Chimera Troop carriers in fully equipped hangars and Thunderbolts share underground blast shelters with Marauders ready to launch at a moments notice. Whilst not commonly seen within the confines of the towns and cities (the units stationed within always dressed in traditional dress uniforms and carrying ceremonial weapons in the form of halberds, swords and shields with polished silver breast plates and plumed helmets) the Preusean standing units (PDF equivalents) spend much time in these machines of war on massive training areas in the vast sprawling wilds conducting combined arms live fire exercises ensuring that they are always combat ready. It is not unusual for these exercises to be predominantly carried out during the hours of darkness to make them as tough as possible nor is it unheard of for Night Hunters units to be involved, often as OPFOR but also to ensure that units can build rapport in order that planetary defence can be fully coordinated. In addition it should never be forgotten that Preuseus is the home world of the Venatorum Nocte, the Night Hunters, sons of Dorn, the siege master. Not for the Hunters is the overt posturing of how well defended Presueus really is, but should an Enemy chance their luck, they will soon feel fiery Preusean deliverance. The Night Hunters are an ever present part of life on Preuseus, whilst never getting involved in the day to day running of the individual city states they do keep quarters in all of the largest regional capitals and will often drop in on smaller townships and farming communities to show presence and will delight local audiences with mock duals with the local champions, always ensuring that the rules governing Preuseus are adhered to. Most importantly, whilst all city-states have access to all the might that modern imperial weaponry has to offer, any inter city rivalries and honour battles must be carried out in the old ways, on foot and horse, with blade, lance and bow, honourably. Whilst not revered as gods, the Night Hunters still receive and insist on being treated with the utmost respect, and in return the populace know that whilst the Hunters guard their planet, they have nothing to fear but the night. Recruitment Every year, the Largest City States organise vast pageants celebrating all aspects of warfare. From wargames pitting whole regiments against one another to individual skill at arms with blade and horse. However it is always the Cadet tournaments held at the end of each pageant as a grand finale that draw the biggest crowds as the Cadets compete not only for regimental honours but they know that the Lords of the Arx Tenebrearum will draw from them their recruits, the best of the best to join them at the apex of soldiering. Not all that are chosen will become battle brothers. Some may fail during gruelling ordeal of “Selection” and if they survive serve the Hunters in other ways, others may be retunred to the regiments they were selected from with out shame. But none will speak of what they have seen and done during “Selection” to any body who has not gone through it themselves. Combat Doctrine Combat Doctine The Night Hunters have a motto, taken from the indigenous people of Preuseus: “Venor non quis vos es non validas necas” Roughly translated as: “ Hunt not what you can not kill” This is more often than not followed by the phrase: “Sed retineo sub speulatio” Roughly translated as “But keep an eye on it” They will never rush into a fight. Even for Astartes they are methodical in their approach to warfare. Reconnaissance is everything to them as this not only allows the Hunters to place troop formations in such a way to ensure that when battle is met, the enemy is faced with overwhelming force but also allows them to avoid enemy formation that are too large to engage and destroy comprehensively without the battle becoming one of attrition. Either way Night Hunters casualties are always to be kept to an absolute minimum. It is this philosophy of keeping unnecessary casualties to a minimum that explains a curious absence in plasma weaponry other than mounted on vehicles and an absence of assault units with Jump packs as the casualty rates for both types of unit are considered in excess of acceptable parameters. It also explains why Night Hunters forces are rarely seen deployed below company strength indeed reports show they are most commonly deployed in formations featuring 300 marines with full support units attached. Commonly the Night Hunters will use fast moving mechanized units to harass enemy targets, drawing the opposing forces into carefully laid ambushes or drawing away more dangerous units with diversionary attacks leaving the target vulnerable to devastating direct assault by the Night Hunters main force. Of course the Night Hunters are still Space Marines, Angels of Death and they will conduct lightning assaults tearing the heart out of the enemies command and control units and take enemy vessels in void combat if the situation demands it as well as any other of the Emperors sons and woe betide those that mistake careful preparation and planning for cowardice. Whilst The Hunters are willing to fight alongside most branches of the Imperial Armies they will not tolerate hubris of misplaced pride. Respect must be earned, no matter if Guardsman or brother Astartes but once earned, it will be remembered for generations. The one exception to these are the forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Whilst relations were understandably cordial to begin with, they soured rapidly after the Caraseverin Prime incident which almost lead to the total annihilation of the chapter whilst supporting an Ad Mech exploratory fleet on fringes on Imperial space. Von Neugeir, aware of the souring of relations was perplexed that The Hunters still seemed to be well supplied. Indeed on arrival in system the flight crew of his ship allegedly reported a momentary blip on the scanners of a small ship that appeared to be sending an Ad Mech ident code. From Von Neugier's scattered records that were retrieved, many years after his visiting of Preuseus, from the drifting hulk of his gutted ship, the Inquisitor seems to have misspent years on a far fetched theory that whilst overtly at odds with the Ad Mech as an organisation The Hunters maintained contact with a Fabricator Locum on Mars who was allegedly indebted to The Hunters. Further more it seems that he was trying to cross match the periods in The Night Hunters History showing little or no battle activity with reported Corsair activity that had led to the loss of Mechanicus Bulk Carriers across the Imperium but given that these theories were cobbled together from heavily corrupted data cores they were dismissed as ramblings. Organization Whilst supporting Mechanicum forces on Caraseverin Prime the Night Hunters suffered grievous losses against chaos forces. Inaccurate reconnaissance had failed to pick out that the traitor forces were heavily supported by dark Mechanicus Constructs and Heretic Tech Priests. It is told that the Heretic Adepts succeeded in corrupting the operating systems of all loyalist mechanicum forces committed to the theatre with a viral scrap code that turned them on their erstwhile allies. Night Hunters units spread throughout the allied force over the entire theatre of conflict normally at squad level were thus vulnerable as this corruption afflicted all constructs, from servitors to Skittari and automated weapon emplacements which started ripping apart the loyalist forces from with in. With their units so spread out over the surface of Caraseverin neither Night Hunters fleet assets nor even their Gunship wings could hope to support all units and many hundreds were lost before the surviving units managed to forge a path to one another and were able to extract themselves and some surviving ranking members of the Adeptus Mechanicus under the cover of a rolling orbital bombardment. After this cataclysmic event, the ranking Night Hunters gathered and discussed the foundations that the chapter would be rebuilt upon. They decided that never would they commit to battle without knowing all aspects of their foe. Never again would they face total annihilation. Never again would they let themselves be ground down in unnecessary wars of attrition and further more the life of every single battle brother was deemed sacred. The Astartes are woefully outnumbered by the enemies of man as it is, so everything was put in place that not one Astartes life would be lost in vain. Thus they began analyzing all of the past engagements fought over the forgone centuries. From this they to the conclusions that formed organization of the Night Hunters in the present. Officially Documents show that the Night Hunters are formed into 3 Great Companies, Each Great Company is commanded by a Battle captain and consists of 3 Battle companies. This is the smallest formation that the Hunters are thought to deploy. In general 2 battle companies will be committed in any one engagement with the third acting as mobile reserve. Some look at this formation and think it rather unwieldy, it has even been termed "Over Kill" in some instances where smaller marine detachments would have done the job. In these instances the Night Hunters point out that most conflicts that they engage in are brought to a satisfactory close in a fraction of the time with a minimum in casulties (Friendly forces only) than would be expected had it been left in the hands of any other forces. Each Battle Company is under the direct control of a Lieutenant and consists of around 100 marines. Each Battle Company is fully self-supporting from scout units to armor and logistical support. A veteran NCO designated by the Lieutenant from his personal retinue commands each unit. There is no elite 1st company and each Battle Company maintains its own armory from the lowly bolt pistol to hallowed suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armor. The Scout units are not the new recruits but rather Veteran Elites as befits the Night Hunters combat doctrine extolling reconnaissance. Most of each Battle Company is made up of Jaeger squads effectively equivalent to a codex Tactical squad. Jaeger squads are some of the best all round fighters the Imperium can field. Carrying both blessed Bolt guns and close combat weapons allowing the Jaeger to engage at range and in melee. To improve mobility they forgo carrying any squad heavy weapons instead favoring assault weapons that can be brought to bear on the move. Often deployed in Razorbacks with armor support. Heavy Weapons are the remit of the companies Devastators. Veteran warriors who can read the ebb and flow of battles always knowing which units will require the support of their heavy weapons. Each Battle Company is responsible for it’s own recruiting and all successful aspirants are collected into cadet squads. Armed in full suits of Power armor these Cadet squads, more commonly referred to as Fusilier squads (or indeed “Ersatz” by some frontline troops with a propensity for dark humor) these youths are generally not committed to battle as they learn to work with their new bodies and battle plate. But when committed to battle they, in bouts over exuberance, will assault the enemy with scant regard for their own safety swearing fearsome oaths in order to bring honor to their families and the Night Hunters. Such attacks can be devastating but if an enemy is not destroyed the young aspirants will often suffer in a protracted fight as their lack of combat experience starts to tell. Thus all Fusilier units are commanded by Senior NCOs and are generally deployed from mighty Landraiders Beliefs Ancient Preusean lore tells of the time before the Dorns sons claimed the planet as their own. It is written that during these dark times the lands were stalked by fell creatures that ruled the night. The stories tell spectres carrying scythes that rob a man of his soul leaving them a shrivelled husk and of creatures, once men that go through a terrible change to become more beast than man. In more recent times most think of these creatures as nothing more than rumour and hear say, frightening stories to tell the children and yet there are still great swathes of the land that by Night Hunters decree, can not be entered under punishment of death. Interestingly those men that have gone through selection but were returned can not be brought to talk of these areas or why they may not be entered but they will caution all that will listen that it would be unwise to spend a night even a day’s march from the borders. Von Neugier understandably extrapolated that this was the origin of the Night Hunters name. Indeed the Hunters after their centuries on Preuseus share many of the planets customs and beliefs. Honour is of the utmost importance and all members of the chapter will proudly were their honour markings on their battle plate. (These generally take the form of purple tabards and braids and heavy wounds are acknowledged with a purple blood drop.) Any disagreements between brother astartes will be settled with honour duels as is the way with many of Dorns son's. Fought with blades and not in their battle plate, honour is deemed served with first blood drawn from the face. It is also the Hunter’s honour code that will on occasion lead to a brother Marine going on a “Walk of Death”. Normally the this will occur if he is the last brother left in a squad who rather than live with the shame of so many brother marines having been lost will take to the field of battle one last time to take terrible vengeance and so restore the honour to the squads memory. Whilst it would seem to go against the Hunters edicts that every Marine life is sacred in these matters of honour such loss of life may be excused. Von Neugier also alleged that the Hunters also have a form of Death Cult built in to their hierarchy. It is believed that this was an effort to account for the prevalence of skull helms and deep purple hooded cowls amongst the higher ranks and the fact that most honour guards take to battle bearing monstrous war scythes. The Hunters themselves will not be drawn on the subject although the rumour persists that a brother of the Iron Knights disclosed that it had to do with a right of passage rather than a cult. Gene-seed Von Neugier indicated that the Night Hunters are sons of the Great Rogal Dorn as such they share the same geneseed malfunctions (inactive Susan membrane and defunct betchers gland) However unconfirmed reports have hinted that in extremis, individual marines have been able to metabolise Poison. Battle-cry "For Preuseus, for the Emperor!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Alrighty then, back to work. First up, a disclaimer (in case you're new to the Liber) The following C&C is given with only one goal in mind: to help you improve the quality of your work and help you fit it into the shared universe. It is certainly not intended as an attack on your or anything like that, because that stuff is just not on. With regards to the C&C itself: In usual Liber fashion, I'll do so primarily by quoting any bits I think can be improved upon. In general terms, if I don't quote something, there's not really a problem with it. ^_^ But if I do quote it, I'll show no mercy. (Hence the disclaimer! :P ) That said, let the games begin! Lacking details on battles etc as trying hard to avoid any cliche too obvious. Detailed battles aren't really something you want in an IA article. Battles aren't even a little bit important; it's the effects they have on your Chapter. ^_^ Exact details are vague, all information relies on sketchy reports that survived the unfortunate passing of inquisitor Staab Von Neugeir. So you're saying there's no information kept by the Chapter, or any other Imperial organisation (the AdMech, the parent Chapter) nothing but one Inquisitor's report. Why? Why not pick a founding and be a bit more specific? Random mystery doesn't really add anything to your Chapter, and it doesn't seem to reflect any purpose later in the Chapter's history. It was reputed that the Night Hunters seem to have been formed by the Imperial Fists after a period of conflict against the Traitor Legions, it remains unclear whether the period refers to the Scouring or the first Black Crusade however it was written thatcher were created from “legion units” colloquialy refered to as “Rogals Electrical and Mechanical Engineers under Battle Captain Borsig”. An odd choice if true, none the less given some credance on looking through the Night Hunters armoury. How they came to take Preuseus as a homeworld remains a mystery. Unsubstantiated Rumours pervade that Dorn mistrusted Guilliman and his “Empire building” in the galatic east and was keen to maintain an equilibrium in the west. That's not how Foundings work, I'm afraid. Chapters were founded in one of the 26 Foundings that have been decreed by the High Lords of Terra - it's kind of a big deal, and Chapters don't just spring up overnight. Also, what is the deal with the bit I've highlighted? :) There remain large gaps in the history of the Hunters, it is alleged that there are decades at a time when all active units have been recalled to Preuseus and combat operations cease, but no Imperial reports of recent history indicate that the Hunters have conducted their operations in anything other than an exemplary mannor as would be expected of the sons of Dorn. This would almost be a nice set-up for a Chapter that is actually secretly a Chaos Warband pretending to be an official Chapter, except your lads don't proceed to Kill Maim and Burn your allies. Still, I wonder if that isn't your goal here... As it is, I have to wonder what you hope to gain from adding random blobs of secrecy to your IA. It remains unclear whether other Astartes units repoted under the designation “Night Hunters” sporting entirely divergent colours and markings are to be associated along side these sons of Dorn or whether they form entirly separate units It shouldn't really remain unclear, though. At the very least, there should be some sort of explanation as to what these 'other units' are. Primary orbital scans seem to show a backword world, similar to the medieval times of Terra with city states, the buildings timber framed with slate tiles, centered around large Gothic fortifications of rough hewn granite blocks and smaller walled farming communes spread thinly over the land. The fields are ploughed by equine teams and herds of docile bovids graze peacefully in the meadows. There seem to be few foundaries, all given over to the manufacture of simple steal tools and weapoms, plough shears and horse shoes. But looks can be deceiving, the predators and beasts of myth stalk the shadows awaiting the night. ...And then you never mention these 'beasts of legend' again. Was there a point to them, or are they just decoration? Perhaps rather incongerously, a visit to the cavornouse armouries that supply these forces will show them bristleing with weapons of war quite at odds with the portrayed medieval visage; Ranks of Leman Russ Battle tanks sit beside Local variant Chimera Troop carriers in fully equipped hangars and Thunderbolts share underground blast shelters with Marauders ready to launch at a moments notice. I dont think visiting Inquisitors would look too kindly on what could be seen as your Space Marines hoarding Imperial Tanks they aren't strictly allowed to have. There's either room to turn this into a kind of conflict with the Inquisition, or you could just change it to 'primitive tanks developed by the Preusean people' which probably wouldn't cause any Inquisitors to spit their dummies out. Oganisationally the Night Hunters show a great deal of variance from the standards set by the Codex Astartes. From the fragments of data that survived Von Neugier, it has been extrapolated that at some stage during their early history, Whilst supporting Mechanicum forces the Night Hunters suffered grevious losses against chaos forces. Inaccurate reconnaisance had failed to pick out that the traitor forces were heavily supported by dark Mechanicus Constructs and Heretic Tech Priests. It is told that the Heretic Adepts succeded in corrupting the operating systems of all loyalist mechanicum forces committed to the theatre with a viral scrap code that turned them on their erstwhile allies. This corruption aflicted all constructs, from sevitors to Skittari and automated weapon emplacements ripping apart the loyal forces from with in. After this cataclysmic event, the rankng Night Hunters gathered and discussed the foundations that the chapter would be rebuilt upon. They deceided that never would they commit to battle without knowing all aspects of their foe. Never again would they face total annihaltion. Never again would they let themselves be ground down in unnecesary wars of attrition and further more the life of every single battle brother was deemed sacred. The Astartes are woefully outnumbered by the enemies of man as it is, so everything was put in place that not one Astartes life would be lost in vain. Wait, wait, let me get this right. The Chapter does alright until they gather in one place for this war, which must inflict a lot of damage to the Chapter, hence the 'rebuilding'. They then decide, off the back of all grouping up and taking a big kicking, that to avoid taking more kickings they should keep on all grouping up like they just did when they got slaughtered. I don't see the sense behind that. The recon stuff, sure - that's actually pretty neat, but the 'let's triple company size' doesn't seem to fit at all. Von Neugier indicated that the Night Hunters are sons of the Great Rogal Dorn as such they share the same geneseed malfunctions (inactive Susan membrane and defunct betchers gland) However unconfirmed reports have hinted that in extremis, individual marines have been able to metabolise Poison. Again, this doesn't really tie into anything in the IA, and just seems very random. ...Unless it's another subtle hint the Chapter isn't really what it's pretending to be, in which case bravo. <_< There are things I like about this Chapter - the emphasis on recon and intelligence gathering before a battle because they don't trust others to do it right is a nice touch. I think with a bit more definition and development (lot of just random ideas being thrown about here), this Chapter could be pretty darn good! My first pieces of advice, though, for before you begin updating the Chapter, are to look in the DIY guide linked to by the sticky at the top of this forum, and also to search out the 'Octaguide' if you have the patience for further reading. They're both very good, and well worth the read. :D My second piece of advice is to just keep going with the Chapter. The more work that goes into it, the more that comes across in the writing, and the better-developed and evolved the Chapter becomes. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3098111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Wow, straight to the Jugular! No but sincerely Ace, much appreciated, and let me try and explain some: QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) Exact details are vague, all information relies on sketchy reports that survived the unfortunate passing of inquisitor Staab Von Neugeir. So you're saying there's no information kept by the Chapter, or any other Imperial organisation (the AdMech, the parent Chapter) nothing but one Inquisitor's report. Why? Why not pick a founding and be a bit more specific? Random mystery doesn't really add anything to your Chapter, and it doesn't seem to reflect any purpose later in the Chapter's history. Fair point, what I am trying to get at is that no imperial organisations outside of the Night Hunters hold much information about them. I am keen to keep it this way for reasons that you pick up on later. QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) It was reputed that the Night Hunters seem to have been formed by the Imperial Fists after a period of conflict against the Traitor Legions, it remains unclear whether the period refers to the Scouring or the first Black Crusade however it was written thatcher were created from “legion units” colloquialy refered to as “Rogals Electrical and Mechanical Engineers under Battle Captain Borsig”. An odd choice if true, none the less given some credance on looking through the Night Hunters armoury. How they came to take Preuseus as a homeworld remains a mystery. Unsubstantiated Rumours pervade that Dorn mistrusted Guilliman and his “Empire building” in the galatic east and was keen to maintain an equilibrium in the west. That's not how Foundings work, I'm afraid. Chapters were founded in one of the 26 Foundings that have been decreed by the High Lords of Terra - it's kind of a big deal, and Chapters don't just spring up overnight. Also, what is the deal with the bit I've highlighted? OK, given the timings I was trying to indicate the foundings that correspond, so either 2nd or 3rd (I know I know, second founding is locked out but a marine can harbour delusions of grandeur) with out directly stating it but happy to do so, dito it can be suggested that in the early years of the imperium after the heresy that the high lords had their misgivings about big RG rather than Dorn. Regards the bits you highlighted, I haven't delved into the the relationship with the admech, which will hopefully go some way to explain. QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) There remain large gaps in the history of the Hunters, it is alleged that there are decades at a time when all active units have been recalled to Preuseus and combat operations cease, but no Imperial reports of recent history indicate that the Hunters have conducted their operations in anything other than an exemplary mannor as would be expected of the sons of Dorn. This would almost be a nice set-up for a Chapter that is actually secretly a Chaos Warband pretending to be an official Chapter, except your lads don't proceed to Kill Maim and Burn your allies. Still, I wonder if that isn't your goal here... Indeed, i wonder..... QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) It remains unclear whether other Astartes units repoted under the designation “Night Hunters” sporting entirely divergent colours and markings are to be associated along side these sons of Dorn or whether they form entirly separate units It shouldn't really remain unclear, though. At the very least, there should be some sort of explanation as to what these 'other units' are. Right this is me being a nice guy. There was no information regards a chapter called The Night Hunters that I could find so I nabbed it, only to find out the best part of a decade later on this board in, blast, I forget who collates the full list of current chapters but there are already a Night Hunters present with a light green colour scheme but no fluff, so I want to leave it open for the creator to come back and work on them, could actually work quite nicely if they did. But can delete, no biggie. QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) Primary orbital scans seem to show a backword world, similar to the medieval times of Terra with city states, the buildings timber framed with slate tiles, centered around large Gothic fortifications of rough hewn granite blocks and smaller walled farming communes spread thinly over the land. The fields are ploughed by equine teams and herds of docile bovids graze peacefully in the meadows. There seem to be few foundaries, all given over to the manufacture of simple steal tools and weapoms, plough shears and horse shoes. But looks can be deceiving, the predators and beasts of myth stalk the shadows awaiting the night. ...And then you never mention these 'beasts of legend' again. Was there a point to them, or are they just decoration? At this point that's a fair one but I will be coming back to it and it will make sense. Oh yes, it will QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) Perhaps rather incongerously, a visit to the cavornouse armouries that supply these forces will show them bristleing with weapons of war quite at odds with the portrayed medieval visage; Ranks of Leman Russ Battle tanks sit beside Local variant Chimera Troop carriers in fully equipped hangars and Thunderbolts share underground blast shelters with Marauders ready to launch at a moments notice. I dont think visiting Inquisitors would look too kindly on what could be seen as your Space Marines hoarding Imperial Tanks they aren't strictly allowed to have. There's either room to turn this into a kind of conflict with the Inquisition, or you could just change it to 'primitive tanks developed by the Preusean people' which probably wouldn't cause any Inquisitors to spit their dummies out. Yeah thats my bad, didn't make it clear these belong to, granted a very well supplied, PDF. The Medieval facade is just that, a facade. The Night Hunters insist that is maintained for outsiders, underneath it all there is technology upto a standard imperial level. Will have to give that some more. QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) Oganisationally the Night Hunters show a great deal of variance from the standards set by the Codex Astartes. From the fragments of data that survived Von Neugier, it has been extrapolated that at some stage during their early history, Whilst supporting Mechanicum forces the Night Hunters suffered grevious losses against chaos forces. Inaccurate reconnaisance had failed to pick out that the traitor forces were heavily supported by dark Mechanicus Constructs and Heretic Tech Priests. It is told that the Heretic Adepts succeded in corrupting the operating systems of all loyalist mechanicum forces committed to the theatre with a viral scrap code that turned them on their erstwhile allies. This corruption aflicted all constructs, from sevitors to Skittari and automated weapon emplacements ripping apart the loyal forces from with in. After this cataclysmic event, the rankng Night Hunters gathered and discussed the foundations that the chapter would be rebuilt upon. They deceided that never would they commit to battle without knowing all aspects of their foe. Never again would they face total annihaltion. Never again would they let themselves be ground down in unnecesary wars of attrition and further more the life of every single battle brother was deemed sacred. The Astartes are woefully outnumbered by the enemies of man as it is, so everything was put in place that not one Astartes life would be lost in vain. Wait, wait, let me get this right. The Chapter does alright until they gather in one place for this war, which must inflict a lot of damage to the Chapter, hence the 'rebuilding'. They then decide, off the back of all grouping up and taking a big kicking, that to avoid taking more kickings they should keep on all grouping up like they just did when they got slaughtered. I don't see the sense behind that. The recon stuff, sure - that's actually pretty neat, but the 'let's triple company size' doesn't seem to fit at all. Hmmm, yes that will need some more explaining but I assure you it will all make sense, I am sure of it. I hope, maybe... QUOTE (NightHunters @ Jun 27 2012, 06:42 PM) Von Neugier indicated that the Night Hunters are sons of the Great Rogal Dorn as such they share the same geneseed malfunctions (inactive Susan membrane and defunct betchers gland) However unconfirmed reports have hinted that in extremis, individual marines have been able to metabolise Poison. Again, this doesn't really tie into anything in the IA, and just seems very random. ...Unless it's another subtle hint the Chapter isn't really what it's pretending to be, in which case bravo. Yes, Unless, unless.... But thanks again and yeah have read those, just not well enough it seems! :D Will work on those amendments. FTE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3098211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 So they are renegades/chaos marines impersonating a loyalist force? Then my advice would be to pick a founding and have the original Night Hunters founded legitimately. Hear me out though, because it makes sense by the end. The information about the upcoming founding could, however be leaked (via traitors in the AdMech, maybe?) and then your warband could attack and kill the young Chapter on their homeworld before they really get strong enough to fight back. One paint-job and geneseed harvest later, and you've got an evil Chapter who can effectively masquerade as legit loyalists (using the harvested gene-seed for tithes), although I'm not sure what your Chapter's end goal is. Of course, there's probably flaws in my idea (there always is) and it does depend on how you think the Foundings actually work (do they grow a full Chapter before sending them after the homeworld, or not? Perhaps there simply weren't enough recruits available to fill the Chapter before they went to claim a world, so they only have two hundred or so marines and the same again in scouts?) and how likely you think it is that a warband could easily destroy a Chapter still in it's infancy without someone else at least being aware of the attack. Anyway, it's just a random suggestion, to be used or discarded as you see fit. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3098648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 So they are renegades/chaos marines impersonating a loyalist force? This is just it Ace, I really want to let people think on that one rather than come flat out and confirm either way. Your right, I will have to choose a founding as they certainly were founded legitimately so will work on that. Regards the rest, that is a really, really interesting back story for a chapter!! It's not for me on these lads but will defo keep it in the tank for future usage! Regards the Night Hunters Goal, why of course it's the same as for all of the Astartes, to Protect the Imperium, from all enemies, both domestic and external. :angry: Hopefully as I flesh it out it will become clearer to a degree but I do want people to be able to form their own hypotheses Thanks for all your input though, really arrpeciate it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3098904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Fair enough, it was just something that occured to me. :) Regards the Night Hunters Goal, why of course it's the same as for all of the Astartes, to Protect the Imperium, from all enemies, both domestic and external. ;) *Narrows eyes suspiciously* How... carefully worded. Interesting. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3099051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Thanks again Ace and no need for the suspicion, there's nothin going on 'ere guv honest! Right, have redone the Origin & Organisation section which should better explain where they come from and why they deploy on mass rather than in smaller foramtions. Will continue on the other bits you highlighted. Cheers all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3110135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Re worked the Homeworld Section to explain presence of the Leman Russ' Thunderbolts etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3111746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Beliefs Sections Fleshed out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3120111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Greetings all! Now,I know you are all probably just being kind, but these guys are not perfect chaps so any hints tips on how to improve would be greatly appreciated! Cheers brethren! FTE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3163232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Exact details are vague; much of the information portrayed below relies on such sketchy reports that survived the unfortunate passing of inquisitor Staab Von Neugeir. According to ancient (and heavily corrupted) Administratum data files the Night Hunters were formed from the Imperial Fists gene seed at the time of the third founding. To a degree this seems to be corroborated by Inquisitor Von Neugier who allegedly had an opportunity to study the Night Hunters data stacks which state that they were formed “…..after a period of conflict against the Traitor Legions, it remains unclear whether the period refers to the Scouring or the first Black Crusade…” and the new chapter was headed up by “..."legion units” colloquially referred to as Rogal's Electrical and Mechanical Engineers under Battle Captain Borsig…”. I thought you were supposed to set down when they were Founded? Ancient, heavily corrupted files and a dead =][= who happened to favor vague reports is not making it clear. Also, the bolded part still makes zero sense, sorry :/ Home World Presuseus I know more about the homeworld than the chapter. That's not good. Whilst not revered as gods, they still receive and insist on being treated with the utmost respect, an in return the populace know that whilst the Hunters guard their planet, they have nothing to fear but the night. I know that you were just talking about the Night Hunters in the paragraph above, but this is still initially confusing. Put something like 'While the astartes are not revered...' or whatever to make sure it's clear who you're talking about. I suffered the same problem when I started to write, so I understand your pain, truly :devil: I also want to mention that spell check would help your article greatly. Something that it probably won't pick up is that you're talking about steel weapons, not steal weapons. Every year, the Largest City States organise vast pageants celebrating all aspects of warfare. From wargames pitting whole regiments against one another to individual skill at arms with blade and horse. Ok, this is a problem I keep on seeing. I can't tell whether you put in a period when you wanted a comma or you just forgot to put in a comma while typing so fast. Or, like option this - Every year, the largest city-states organise vast pageants celebrating all aspect of warfare, from wargames pitting whole regiments against one another, to individual skill at arms with blade and... The first part was fixed as well. The rule for capitilization is unless it's a specific noun (City State McAwesome) then don't capitilize it, even if it is important (the city-states). The exception is if it's a specific group (the City-States of Preseus, or a group of Dark Apostles, or an organisation like the Night Hunters). The Night Hunters have a motto, taken from the indigenous people of Preuseus: “Venor non quis vos es non validas necas” Roughly translated as: “ Hunt not what you can not kill” This is more often than not followed by the phrase: “Sed retineo sub speulatio” Roughly translated as “But keep an eye on it” This is really good, it speaks of the motivations and mind behind the Night Hunters. And those are the things that make up any story, even an IA :D The Hunters are willing to fight alongside all branches of the Imperial Armies but will not tolerate hubris of misplaced pride. What do they do? Kill them? Smack them around a bit? From the fragments of data that survived Von Neugier, it has been extrapolated that at some stage... Which is followed by very specific details over a battle. The Scout units are not the new recruits but rather Veteran Elites as befits the Night Hunters combat doctrine extolling reconnaissance. Most of each Battle Company is made up of Jaeger squads effectively equivalent to a codex Tactical squad. Jaeger squads are some of the best all round fighters the Imperium can field. Carrying both blessed Bolt guns and close combat weapons allowing the Jaeger to engage at range and in melee. To improve mobility they forgo carrying any squad heavy weapons instead favoring assault weapons that can be brought to bear on the move. Often deployed in Razorbacks with armor support. Heavy Weapons are the remit of the companies Devastators. Veteran warriors who can read the ebb and flow of battles always knowing which units will require the support of their heavy weapons. So Space Wolves' organisation :devil: (or indeed “Ersatz” by some frontline troops with a propensity for dark humor) This would work if we knew what Ersatz meant ;) Sorry if that came across as harsh, but just trying to help. Also, I think you need to work harder on 'they might be Chaos' idea, because all I got was that the chapter really didn't know how to keep records. Maybe I just lack imagination, but if you want that you're going to have to press it a little harder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3164763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 YES!!! Thank you DAT! Real sorry about the belated reply but the real world is kicking my ass at he mo, none the less please be assured that it is much appreciated! Now regards your points: Point 1: I accept that. I am however keen to keep their founding ambiguouse. I need the early founding in the history to make sense of the bold bit. Basically as I delve deeper into the Hunters past it will become clear that they are very anti mechanicus. Though not overtly they believe that technology is there to serve the imperium, and if systems can be improved then improve them. They maintain their armoury to a good level (with various non standard systems) with very little mechanicus support. One of the reasons being the founding units of Rogals Electrical & Mechanical Engineers or REME's. Being a sad military spotter I fancied wedging this reference to the units in the British army that take care of armour/general technology maintenance. Forced? Certainly, Fun? I think so! :jaw: Point 2: Fair point, will work on that Point 3: Fair point again! Will have to work through it as I have spell checked, repeatedly, but as you say it will miss those vicious typos! Point 4&5: The grammar, yeeees, this will be a problem. English is my second language so I will have to really work on this! Point 6: Thank you! Point 7: Generally we just tickle them into submission, or in the case of the sons of Russ a belly rub works wonders :angry: but Ok will flesh that out. Point 8: Yup, fair point, will loose "fragments" Point 9: Yeah, have always rolled with the Wolves list. It just makes sense to me but I hope the explanations offerered will cover the majority of the non codex anomalies. Point 10: Ha, yeah always forget that not every body speaks German! Wikipedia actually gives a good explanation: Ersatz means 'substituting for, and typically inferior in quality to', e.g. 'chicory is ersatz coffee'. It is a German word literally meaning substitute or replacement. Thanks again chap, and not too harsh at all! Regards the Chaos/not Chaos, that is, I agree, tricky. I just don't want to give away the whole story. I personally like a story where I get a chance to think about things, draw my own conclusions, rather than having it rammed down my throat. It's one of the reasons I moved to 40k from 1/35 scale military modelling. I do get your point, but this is probs the one aspect I am loath to change, sorry old chap! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3172327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Ah, it's all good :D Not how I would do it*, but then again it's not my IA so do what you feel best ;) On Ersatz - This problem would probably be fixed by throwing in that definition you gave me and say it's a word from the homeworld. On English - It's your second language? :D You're pretty good for a late learner, so what you have is fairly well done :tu: I'm guessing your first is German? :P EDIT: *I'm talking about the REMEs, the secrecy, and SW organization mostly, to clarify what I'm talking about Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3172430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Ah, it's all good :D Not how I would do it*, but then again it's not my IA so do what you feel best :lol: On Ersatz - This problem would probably be fixed by throwing in that definition you gave me and say it's a word from the homeworld. That's a legitimate word in the English language too, though, or at least I've seen it used a few times. EDIT: I get the feeling it's another word we've appropriated, somehow. :huh: Not that I can think of examples outside of the 'a series of unfortunate events' books I read when I was younger. :P Besides, it'd be like saying your homeworld has a special word for 'chandelier'. Fun trivia, but not neccesarily an integral part of the Chapter's character. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3172704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Alrighty, Have amended bits and bobs through out. notably brought in the Ad Mech aspect some more. All thoughts welcome, well mostly :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3264856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Foreword: Well, I'm not going from point to poin comments, beacause there are more inherent and glaring problems with the article. Moreover, when I look at comments of Ace Debonair and Dark Apostle Thirst and back at your article. Nothing has changed. Which begs the question,"Why are you asking for feedback, when you are going to ignore everything in end?" Hardly promising attitude in regards to any future C&C. Nevertheless... #1 Dosage of mystery and information. - It's quite funny for the likes of me. On one hand there is a lot of information detailing various parts of your Chapter Homeworld section. On the other hand, you resort to mystery and unknown everytime it comes to explain something or address issues. It certainly smells like lazy story-telling and doesn't give too much credence to you, as author. :lol: #2 Language - This is something, which is easily to spot, but hard to explain; report-style of the narrative. Basically, the stylization of the text is awkward. This includes phrases, terms and certain figures of speech. Look around on other's IA's (not Jacobius' Night Wolves - he has the same problem), you will see the difference in your narrative and theirs. #3 Homeworld - While nice invention, it's not-workable. Without any infrastructure to support modern technology, this vast array of vehicles and aircrafts counts for nought. I don't need to explain to you what amount of logistic is required to make one Armored Division field-active. ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3265664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHunters Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Ah ha! Nightrawen strikes! Thank you for dropping by. Right on to your points. Foreword: The article has actually changed quite a bit from the first draft but it would seem not enough. I'll take that on the chin but I really am looking to get this thing right so if the changes need to be more sweeping so be it. 1-Dosage: Ok, and here I was thinking that I had given 40k credible reasons for most of it :tu: but fine, will take the ambiguity hammer to it. 2-Language: This is going to be, by far, the hardest thing to correct. To me, it doesn’t read all too differently from most of what I have read here over the years. Sigh. Oh well, will work though it again and see what we can come up with. 3-Homeworld: You are quite right. If it were just at the base level of technology there would be massive logistical issues!! Whilst I have explained that the actual technology level is far higher than it seems, I then completely failed to actually incorporate it into the article. That is my bad and I will do so. But thanks man, I appreciate you taking the time to comment, if you get a chance it would really help if you could pick a couple of examples re points 1 & 2 just to get me onto the right track! FTE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254805-ia-night-hunters/#findComment-3265939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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