Vanek Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hail Brothers, I've been looking to add some Dreadnoughts to my Deathwing list, and was wondering if anyone uses them on a regular basis. I love the idea of Dreads, they're just as iconic as a Land Raider or TDA marine, but I never have any luck with them. I want to use field one with an assault cannon, and another with some other load out, maybe a mortis dread. How do you equip them if you do use them, and does anyone have any rough tactics for them? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I field one with an Assault Cannon, he's your run of the mill implacable advance guy. Second Dreadnought runs with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Missile Launcher. He's fire support (obviously) My third Dreadnought has a Multi-Melta and Power Fist. He comes in via Drop Pod to scare the bejeesus out of the enemy. Oh, and destroy some tanks :) I tend to find that none of the Dreadnoughts receive an overwhelming amount of fire as it can be difficult to prioritise exactly which one to focus on. This tactic does of course require a decent level of target prioritising from you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I really want something to tie down an enemy unit for a turn or two (if he survives that long), and provide some extra support to a flank of my deathwing. I've been looking at a long range dread with a missile pod and lascannon, but I just love assault cannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I really want something to tie down an enemy unit for a turn or two (if he survives that long), and provide some extra support to a flank of my deathwing. I've been looking at a long range dread with a missile pod and lascannon, but I just love assault cannons. If you're running a pure Deathwing list, you're probably better off using your Dreadnought/s to supplement your firepower. Assault Cannons are great but if you need that long range anti-tank firepower, stick with the Lascannon/Missile Launcher combo. Hopefully, when we get our new codex (I hear September), we'll finally get OUR Mortis Dreadnoughts back! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I would hold of on any purchases until we know for sure the details of Hull Points with regard to Dreads and the BGB. You dont want to spend your cash and then find the dread is not worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I would hold of on any purchases until we know for sure the details of Hull Points with regard to Dreads and the BGB. You dont want to spend your cash and then find the dread is not worth it. I don't believe that Dreadnoughts will become obsolete, even with the rumoured Hull Points issues. They are still invaluable to a Deathwing army purely for the weapon loadouts that they can use. Unless Cyclone Missile Launchers suddenly become amazing at popping battle tanks, Dreadnoughts are always going to be useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Obvioussly, everything I am about to say is subject to change in a matter of days... but, I beleive my general logic is sound. Deathwing armies work best by putting as many Terminators onto the table as possible, with enough supporting elements that the Deathwing Squads are supported but not so much that the enemy can just bag ten kills and call it a day. A Terminator's stats of T4 2+/5++ is all but immune to small arms and the typical attachment of one or two Storm Shields for 3++ saves gives you a very strong resistace to heavy weapons. Dreadnoughts, Lans Speeder Typhoons, or Predators all make excellent support elements for the Deathwing. But, you sort of have to chose one of those units and commit to it, rather than dabble with all three. Since you're leaning to Dreadnoughts, we can limit ourselves to the pro's and con's of that platform. As I said, defensively, your typical squad of Deathwing doesn't give a hoot about enemy small arms fire until it crosses the 20+ shots per turn mark and enemy melee is only truly scary from enemies with massed Rending, Powerswords, Powerfist, and Powerwhathaveyous... Offensively, Deathwing are happiest sitting at about 18-24" with stormbolters, cyclone and/or assault cannon going to work to thin out the crowds. Then you Assault, drop the `hammer, and go home for beer give prayers of thanksgiving to the Emperor. So, you've got the midfield anti-infantry sewn up with, oh, five or six squads of Deathwing... run four squads with Cyclones and two with Assault Cannons, put two Hammernators in each, season with chainfists, and you've pretty much got Rhinos and Chimeras handled too. What you don't have is long range anti-tank and you are especially vulnerable to dedicated long range anti-tank fire yourself -- Longfangs, Broadsides, etc -- adding a pair or trio of Dreadnoughts with Lascannon/Missile Launcher gives you ranged anti-tank, will draw some of that Longfang firepower away from your Deathwing squads, and if you switch over to frags you can thin Ork hordes and Guard blobs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I would hold of on any purchases until we know for sure the details of Hull Points with regard to Dreads and the BGB. You dont want to spend your cash and then find the dread is not worth it. I don't believe that Dreadnoughts will become obsolete, even with the rumoured Hull Points issues. They are still invaluable to a Deathwing army purely for the weapon loadouts that they can use. Unless Cyclone Missile Launchers suddenly become amazing at popping battle tanks, Dreadnoughts are always going to be useful. well, glancing to death appears to be in. Cyclones are S8 which means they can glance AV 12-13 with ease... Not saying a Dread will be useless, but, my suggestion is to wait for the rulebook and FAQ to see just how changed they will be. Ill still field them myself, but i will be interesting to see what happens. Who knows, it may be that our support squadrons of speeders are actually more useful to have around than a Dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It really depends on what you are supporting: if your Deathwing are running with nothing but hammer and claw, you'll want the dakka from Predators; if you are running a mix of storm bolters and melee, you'll probably benefit from the long reach of two-gun Dreads or Typhoons; if your playing a very agressive style then Land Raiders and DCCW Dreads might be the ticket... Or, starting this Sunday... a Fortress of Redemtion. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Or, starting this Sunday... a Fortress of Redemtion. ;) I think I found my answer... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It does appear that librarians and AAA will be important this edition. Codex marines are getting the storm raven. Interesting times... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Slightly off-topic, but I am wondering how a "pure" Deathwing army is going to handle Anti-Aircraft* fire. In the past, under Epic 40,000 or Imperial Armour, the space marines have used the Hyperios-variants of the Whirlwind and Land Raider, and that was about it. Static artillery has never really "fit" the space marines' style, but they really could use a boost in this regard. Maybe a special AA Auspex package for Dreadnoughts? So that the Rifleman Dread can truly complete its metamorphosis into the Macross mecha it resembles. * And can we all agree that "Skyfire" is a silly name? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Its not that AA guns will be important: the only real issue are Storm Ravens, due to the AV 12. The rest of fliers qe can handle. At the end of the BGB there is a HUGE table (actually several pages long). In a nutshell, it shows only chapter specific units. We only get bikers, sarge bikers, I. Chaplains and another which I can't remember. 0 vehicles. No tacticals IIRC, no terminators... Then under the SM section, you get all these guys, vehicles and what not. I'd say we will be getting all of the vehicles (SR, Talon, etc) plus whatever unit should come in the new C: DA Its a really nice book...and the WD spine pic is a chapter art (IIRC the rules section). Several DA art throughout the book, as in the cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Im not up to date, but arent the mortis dreads able of skyfire already? 2x Autocannons Dread served me well even if i never used it as AA...he killed 3 EC dreads once in a game! ;) You made my fingernails curl up with the mention of the words Rifleman and macross mecha in ONE sentence! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Im not up to date, but arent the mortis dreads able of skyfire already? 2x Autocannons Dread served me well even if i never used it as AA...he killed 3 EC dreads once in a game! ;) You made my fingernails curl up with the mention of the words Rifleman and macross mecha in ONE sentence! ;) I am hardly the only person to note that the Destroid Defender ADR-04-MkX of Macross bears a striking resemblance to the dual twin-linked Autocannon Dreadnought; When FASA bought the molds from Bandai for their original set BattleTech miniatures the Defender destroid became the Rifleman RFL-3N... When the autocannon dreadnaught rose to prominance, the "Rifleman" nickname was applied and stuck. The "slab" sides, the quad autocannons, the central cockpit... the ressemblance is uncanny. Granted, there are only so many ways to make a bipedal Flakvierling 38 work. So the resemblance isn't due to deliberate plagarism or anything. Edit to Add: I just double checked my copy of Imperial Armour Vol. II, although I haven't checked any updates or errata, but the Mortis Dreadnought in that book does not have an Anti-Aircraft special rule. However, under the soon-to-be-outdated Flyer rules they still make great ack-ack platforms since the -12" isn't too problematic for autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wow i didnt know the BT Rifleman was actually based on a macross design...i just remember the mess with those unseen mechs, which basically took out the best mechs from BT universe due to copyright hassle! Back to topic: I guess with that AA update the RFL mortis will be a lot of fun vs flyers...i also will have to finish my Hyperios then too! But generally i will wait what the BGB and our dex will bring Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wow i didnt know the BT Rifleman was actually based on a macross design...i just remember the mess with those unseen mechs, which basically took out the best mechs from BT universe due to copyright hassle! I work IP law (although I am a paralegal, not a lawyer) and the whole mess basically boils down to Harmony Gold having "gotten in on the ground floor" back before anime became even a shadow of the leviathan it is today. As a result, they have some insanly tight controls over the publication/production of anything stemming from the Macross series. FASA's deal with Bandai stepped on that deal, or so Harmony Gold claimed... Given that FASA was still pretty much in the "two guys in the garage" stage of its existance and had just resolved a legal squabble with Lucas Film, Ltd. (BattleTech was originally BattleDroids. Lucas trademarked Droids waaay back when.) So FASA cut a deal with HarmonyGold and everyone's favorite mechs got Trotsky'd. Back to topic: I guess with that AA update the RFL mortis will be a lot of fun vs flyers...i also will have to finish my Hyperios then too! But generally i will wait what the BGB and our dex will bring. I'm actually torn between using multiple "Rifleman" Mortis Dreadnaughts (dual autocannon) or using multiple "Phlanax" Mortis Dreads (with dual missile launchers). I mean, the obvious solution is to slap magnets on everything... but, why be practical? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajae Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I play with a quad-autocannon mortis dreadnought (the rules are available to download from forgeworld). He has more than earned his points in almost every battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Oh, you don't need to sell me one the autocannon Dread. My Armoured Battlegroup has a Commissar in an Exterminator (quad-autocannon Russ), a pair of Hydra, and three auto-cannon turreted Chimera. When I have to use the normal Guard codex, I bring a ton of foot-slogging Autocannon teams too. Autocannons are good. I'm on board. But the dual missile launcher Mortis Dreadnaught (and, come to think of it, the quad heavy bolter Dread) is unique to the Dark Angels. There's something to be said for trading raw praticality for uniqueness... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Other little fun bits you might have guessed, Missile Launchers get an anti-air missile (Str7 AP4) Sorry for the double post, but I just snagged this from the "Sixth Edition" thread in News & Rumors. If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then I think my worries about Deathwing ack-ack are mitigated a great deal. Cyclones, man, what don't they do? I'm also going to have to go with Missile Launcher Mortis Dreads, because they'll be awesome... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajae Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I want to make a right-arm missile launcher and give that a shot. Especially if fliers are going to be the new thing in 6th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Assuming the other stats don't change... A lascannon Mortis puts two TL S9 shots down range; a Rifleman Mortis Dread puts four TL S7 shots down range; a Heavy Bolter Mortis puts six TL S5 shots down range; and, a Missile Launcher Mortis puts two S8 or two S7 or two S4 small blasts down range. The missile launcher dreadnaught is giving up the 75% hit chance of hit for a "mere" 66% chance of a hit, but he's packing a Swiss Army Knife of a gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Other little fun bits you might have guessed, Missile Launchers get an anti-air missile (Str7 AP4) Sorry for the double post, but I just snagged this from the "Sixth Edition" thread in News & Rumors. If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then I think my worries about Deathwing ack-ack are mitigated a great deal. Cyclones, man, what don't they do? I'm also going to have to go with Missile Launcher Mortis Dreads, because they'll be awesome... I have the BGB sitting 1m from me but can't check it out right now... But if that IS true...my devastators just got infinetly better and now I know what my 3rd slot for HS will be (the 2 other being Dreads TLLC/ML). I'd LOVE to go for a swarm of PA list...a bit tired of TDA after so many games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3098914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I want to make a right-arm missile launcher and give that a shot. Especially if fliers are going to be the new thing in 6th. I'm pretty sure you can get these from Forge World. The Contemptor-Mortis has a special wargear item (can't remember the name) which makes all of its weapons AA-mounted if it remains stationary that turn: the TLLC/CML loadout is unbelievably scary against aircraft (albeit slightly over-gunned against most fliers). I wonder whether these will be available for standard Mortis dreads going forward... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3100697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Well my plasma cannon / missile dread just got happier ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254824-our-fallen-brothers/#findComment-3103305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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