Red Fury Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Just noticed that the Tac squad sergeant, Assault squad sergeant, Devastator squad sergeant, Stern guard sergeant, Scout squad sergeant, any DC member, Bike sergeant or Scout bike Sergeant, any VV except the sergeant, and even a techmarine can take any of the three Power Weapons listed. But the Captain has specifically only a power sword. :thanks: To be fair, Honor guard can only take power swords too, same with the VV sergeant (glaive is an option so maybe a axe glaive?) Priests also can only take swords or claws. It seems the higher your rank in the BA, the fewer choices you have. Maybe we just chalk this up as traditional or ceremonial wargear? Anyway, just re-reading the codex and noticed this. So with no assaults allowed from razorbacks, will Tactical squads make a comeback? With the double tap after disembarking and overwatch and snapfire rules, I think that mech tacticals backed up by jump pack equipped assault marines will be the new core for hybrid lists. Plus with 100% reserves gone and tanks getting a little nerf, a hybrid list looks like the way of the future. Any thoughts on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Wait, was this a change recently? The Captain as listed in codex can get a sword, claw, or fist. Also, Honor Guard just says, "power weapon" and does not specify what kind. Did they say that a power weapon was or sword or change the specifics? Edit: Captain can also get a hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I hope so. I have three tactical squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 LOL, I have 6 tac squads. I bought a full company a while back, but I only ever use the tacs when I play apocolypse, which is not very often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 For what it's worth the captain is one of the few sources left for high I cc attacks, now that FC has been nerfed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So FC has definately been nerfed to leave out the +1I? I think I'm gonna cry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So FC has definately been nerfed to leave out the +1I? I think I'm gonna cry. Yessir ;) End of an era hey. 1998 - 2012 RIP BA Furious Charge/Black Rage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So FC has definately been nerfed to leave out the +1I? I think I'm gonna cry. Yessir :( End of an era hey. 1998 - 2012 RIP BA Furious Charge/Black Rage. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I already thought tacticals were under rated. The biggest problem i had was you needed ten for a flamer, and could only take one. And maybe assault squads get cheap transports. With my guard army, i often charged space marines, because i got armour saves against chainswords, but didnt get them against bolters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3099956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 For what it's worth the captain is one of the few sources left for high I cc attacks, now that FC has been nerfed. I don't know. There is still Mephiston, Lemartes, Dante (hopefully!). the Reclusiarch. There are still source of high I CC attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Eh, the loss of initiative isn't too bad considering rage gives +2 attacks now. May not be high initiative, but every DC has a minimum of four attacks on the charge (five for BP/CCW) and DC jump packers get an Initiative 10 auto hit on the charge on top of it (see, still high initiative strikes there!). Squad of ten jump packing DC makes 60 attacks on one charge in total. Add in a S8 A8 I6 wounded lemmy and you've got yourself one incredible squad of death on your hands with all those rerolls! Look at the bright side of the awesomeness in some cases. I'm sure you'll find a gem or two in the new rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Gasp! How do the Space Wolves manage to do anything in close combat without the benefit of FC???? Or any Space Marine player for that matter? Furious Charge was awesome, don't get me wrong. It's not the end of the world for Blood Angels though. What does Furious Charge do now? Unless the Tactical Squad gets an FAQ that gives them a +35 point discount towards a Dedicated Transport, the Assault Squad will still be the better choice both points wise, and wargear wise. Taking a Librarian, Reclusiarch, or Chaplain will still be a better choice then a Captain. Those choices benefit at the very least the unit they join, if not the whole army with Psychic Powers. If Psychic Powers really do make a big come back, then the Psychic Hood will become far more valuable. Paying 100 points for a Captain that is marginally better in CC then Librarians, Reclusiarch or Chaplains- or even a tooled up Assault Sergeant with a SS/TH- smacks of point inefficiency to me. Before you take that Captain, I suggest you look at Gabriel Seth. Yes, he is 60 points more than the Captain, but he has a better statline, and Blood Reaver is an awesome piece of Wargear. He is great in CC, and he is great at cracking tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Gasp! How do the Space Wolves manage to do anything in close combat without the benefit of FC???? Last I checked they had the whole more attacks than a tactical squad charging it, or same attacks as an assault squad charging it, thing going. Unless the Tactical Squad gets an FAQ that gives them a +35 point discount towards a Dedicated Transport, the Assault Squad will still be the better choice both points wise, and wargear wise. Considering they cannot claim from inside vehicles, and cannot assault when disembarking, Tactical squads may in fact be a LOT better now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Space wolves have close combat weapon + pistol + bolter on their basic troops giving them more attacks then BA even when charged due too counter charge. Having that said I have no clue if they changed counter charge. Still we're not hurt as hard as orks have been with this nerf which I personally play and consider one of the weakest within my gaming group. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Unless the Tactical Squad gets an FAQ that gives them a +35 point discount towards a Dedicated Transport, the Assault Squad will still be the better choice both points wise, and wargear wise. Considering they cannot claim from inside vehicles, and cannot assault when disembarking, Tactical squads may in fact be a LOT better now. The price difference between a fully tooled up JP assault squad and a fully tooled up and mounted Tac squad is only 15 points. (PF melta ML and Rhino vs PF melta melta and JPs) Pretty close in price, plus you get the additional rhino unit that can operate independently. I actually think the price is pretty close to being balanced, but vanilla marines get the tacticals for the 15 points cheaper price :D Of course now you really need those JPs to get a charge. End of an era hey. 1998 - 2012 RIP BA Furious Charge/Black Rage. lol, I laugh so I don't cry. :cry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Just noticed that the Tac squad sergeant, Assault squad sergeant, Devastator squad sergeant, Stern guard sergeant, Scout squad sergeant, any DC member, Bike sergeant or Scout bike Sergeant, any VV except the sergeant, and even a techmarine can take any of the three Power Weapons listed. But the Captain has specifically only a power sword. :) To be fair, Honor guard can only take power swords too, same with the VV sergeant (glaive is an option so maybe a axe glaive?) Priests also can only take swords or claws. It seems the higher your rank in the BA, the fewer choices you have. Maybe we just chalk this up as traditional or ceremonial wargear? Anyway, just re-reading the codex and noticed this. So with no assaults allowed from razorbacks, will Tactical squads make a comeback? With the double tap after disembarking and overwatch and snapfire rules, I think that mech tacticals backed up by jump pack equipped assault marines will be the new core for hybrid lists. Plus with 100% reserves gone and tanks getting a little nerf, a hybrid list looks like the way of the future. Any thoughts on this? Actually not sure about Codex BA but C:SM was errat'd to change power sword to power weapon throughout. I'm sure if you haven't you'll get the same treatment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I've always been one to use two Tactical squads in my games for fluff reasons, and they still do a fair share of death-dealing. All these changes sound good to me. Might have to remodel some Sergeants though, not looking forward to that if I decide to. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Just noticed that the Tac squad sergeant, Assault squad sergeant, Devastator squad sergeant, Stern guard sergeant, Scout squad sergeant, any DC member, Bike sergeant or Scout bike Sergeant, any VV except the sergeant, and even a techmarine can take any of the three Power Weapons listed. But the Captain has specifically only a power sword. :) To be fair, Honor guard can only take power swords too, same with the VV sergeant (glaive is an option so maybe a axe glaive?) Priests also can only take swords or claws. It seems the higher your rank in the BA, the fewer choices you have. Maybe we just chalk this up as traditional or ceremonial wargear? Anyway, just re-reading the codex and noticed this. So with no assaults allowed from razorbacks, will Tactical squads make a comeback? With the double tap after disembarking and overwatch and snapfire rules, I think that mech tacticals backed up by jump pack equipped assault marines will be the new core for hybrid lists. Plus with 100% reserves gone and tanks getting a little nerf, a hybrid list looks like the way of the future. Any thoughts on this? Actually not sure about Codex BA but C:SM was errat'd to change power sword to power weapon throughout. I'm sure if you haven't you'll get the same treatment. The captain is the only one that says power sword, everyone else says power weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Actually not sure about Codex BA but C:SM was errat'd to change power sword to power weapon throughout. I'm sure if you haven't you'll get the same treatment. Hmm, well I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. I was pretty dissapointed when the last FAQ came out and didn't give captains access to artificer armor, or even Glaive encarmines, and kept DC tycho out of the DC, along with a couple other things. This was right after they added frost weapons for space pups in their Faq, so who knows what will really be in there. The captain is the only one that says power sword, everyone else says power weapon. Wait, for what codex are you refering? Codex: Space Marines or Blood Angels? Either way, you're wrong. I just checked the SM codex and there are several entries that are limited to power swords and not the open ended 'power weapon'. Chapter Master, Captain, Command Squads, VV Seargant, to name a few. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Come on guys, swords are cool. :) Why would you want an axe anyway? I think that the fist is MUCH better! More expensive yes, but also with an instant kill flavor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'm talking about the BA Codex. Correction, for the Honor Guard, it does say power sword for the standard HG, but for the champion, it says "Power Weapon." Everyone else, other than the captain and those I just said it says, "Power Weapon." This comes from the codex, right in front of me. Edit++ However, both of the ones I listed can take Power Claws, Power Fists and Thunder Hammers as well. So except for that ONE correction, I was right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Come on guys, swords are cool. ;)Why would you want an axe anyway? I think that the fist is MUCH better! More expensive yes, but also with an instant kill flavor. Yeah a sword is pretty cool! And keeps the high I attacks. I was just laughing at the lack of options our poor Captains have at their disposal. And yes, they can take claws and Power Fists, I was simply saying that they do not get power axes or maces, just power swords (no generic power weapon entry). I'm talking about the BA Codex.Correction, for the Honor Guard, it does say power sword for the standard HG, but for the champion, it says "Power Weapon." Everyone else, other than the captain and those I just said it says, "Power Weapon." This comes from the codex, right in front of me. Edit++ However, both of the ones I listed can take Power Claws, Power Fists and Thunder Hammers as well. So except for that ONE correction, I was right. :D You might have the codex in front of you, but try reading it again. What does it say for a priest, or the VV sergeant? C'mon man, at least look it up if you want to try and start a dissagreement over it. Or just re-read my first post, I already spelt it out for you : Just noticed that the Tac squad sergeant, Assault squad sergeant, Devastator squad sergeant, Stern guard sergeant, Scout squad sergeant, any DC member, Bike sergeant or Scout bike Sergeant, any VV except the sergeant, and even a techmarine can take any of the three Power Weapons listed. But the Captain has specifically only a power sword. :P To be fair, Honor guard can only take power swords too, same with the VV sergeant (glaive is an option so maybe a axe glaive?) Priests also can only take swords. It seems the higher your rank in the BA, the fewer choices you have. Maybe we just chalk this up as traditional or ceremonial wargear? Anyway, just re-reading the codex and noticed this. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Oh, you aren't including power fists or lightning claws in your power weapon assessment. I apologize :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Since this has kinda turned into a mourning for FC and a booing of new PW rules I'd like to point out that Dante will likely be striking at I1 since he's armed with an Axe. Only the plus side he has a higher Strength. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Oh, you aren't including power fists or lightning claws in your power weapon assessment. I apologize :D It's all good. I guess I wasn't too clear on what I was saying because some others made comments about being able to take fists and claws too. I didn't realize that was the confusion. I really hope Dante gets a faq for his axe of mortalis. Dropping him to I 1 is criminal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254892-still-no-love-for-the-captain/#findComment-3100790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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