Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Greetings Battle Brothers, 6th Edition release date is getting closer (less than 24 hours) and I have an idea for a Grey Knights army. I'd like to maximize the number of flyers in my army creating an "Air Support" force. This editon will finally make my Stormravens a "bit more competitve". I decided to ally my GK with Necrons, the only army capable of field a great number of flyers using the limited choices of allied FOC. Several Necron units have access to a flyer dedicated transport, the Night Scyte, able to deliver 4 twin linked S7 tesla shots per turn: perfect for an "interceptor". Doom Scyte would be a nice ground attack flyers but still able to fulfill the intereceptor role. My primary army allows me to field up to three Stormravens, the only flyers with AV12 all sides. How can I make a competitve army based on the above traits? I know we still have to wait at least few days to see how the new edition will play on the battlefield but we already have a good amount of reliable info on Flyers and the whole edition. What units do suggest, HG, troops etc? How do you suggest to equip my Stormravens and how many of them, as well necron flyers, should I field? I plan to start with a 2000 pt army and I have a lot of GK models and several Necrons... I'll buy new ones as soon as I'll be able to write a list. :whistling: Do you have other suggestions for any form of "flyers spam" lists? Thanks for your assistance... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Keep in mind that at 2000pts and above, you get a second FOC, so you can have 6 Stormravens :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturnine Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Also the Blood Angels Storm Raven is Heavy Support. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Keep in mind that at 2000pts and above, you get a second FOC, so you can have 6 Stormravens :lol: Yes but I need one more HQ and two more troops. Unless I go with Inquisitorial forces (namely Coteaz & company ;) ) it will consume my points quickly. Also the Blood Angels Storm Raven is Heavy Support. I thought about BA too. Their Stormraven is even armed with anti-vehicle missiles. My only concerns are the points cost. In my original post I mentioned Necrons because I can field flyers with little investment in other units (5 warriors are cheap and they give me a flyer as dedicated transport). If you have an advice about fielding a great number of Stormravens I'll be more than happy to hear them, Battle Brothers. :yes: I know several players don't like its model but I love that gunship. Fielding 8 of them whould be amazing and extremely fun. However I cannot fimd a solution to the "points cost" issue. Any help is very appreciated. Anyway How do you suggest to equip the Stormravens? Currently I have two of them (I wanted to buy more of them but you know they were not very survivable in 5th edition ;)) One is armed with twin-linked Las Cannon (now useful due to +1 bonus on vehicle chart) and a Typhon missile launcher (it is not glued so I can change it with other weapons, if needed) plus two Hurrican bolter platforms (now they may even be useful, not just a cosmetic addition to the model) I plan to use this Stormraven as an interceptor using skyfire rule. If no flyer is around it can hunt vehicles down. Second is armed with T-L Plasma Cannon (sadly now get's hot rule applies to vehicles too but I can re-roll) and a multimelta ( can be changed as above) plus Hurrican platforms. This would be the air interdiction flyer (attacking ground forces). Plasma Cannon+ bolters against infatry and multimelta against vehicles (due to Power of the Machine spirit) What do you think? How do oyu suggest to arm the other, or others, Stormraven(s)? I was thinking about a TL assault cannon, heavy bolter, possibly even hurrican bolters, with psybolt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I´m ahead of you. I´m already working on my models for my 2000 points SR Intervention Force. GM with Halbert, Rad and Psychstroke grenades 10 Purifiers with Halberts Venerable Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF 5 Terminators with 1 Hammer, 4 Halberts and 1 Psycannon 5 Terminators with 1 Hammer, 4 Halberts and 1 Psycannon Storm Raven With AC and MM Storm Raven with AC and MM Storm Raven with AC and MM Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF Actual i´m working on painting of the second and third SR. I hope i will give the list a try within the next month. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I´m ahead of you. I´m already working on my models for my 2000 points SR Intervention Force. GM with Halbert, Rad and Psychstroke grenades 10 Purifiers with Halberts Venerable Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF 5 Terminators with 1 Hammer, 4 Halberts and 1 Psycannon 5 Terminators with 1 Hammer, 4 Halberts and 1 Psycannon Storm Raven With AC and MM Storm Raven with AC and MM Storm Raven with AC and MM Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF Actual i´m working on painting of the second and third SR. I hope i will give the list a try within the next month. I haven't make the calculations but I suppose your list used all the 2000 pts, right? I was looking for even a greater number of flyers... I'm trying to assemble my 40k Air Combat Command. :tu: Anyway I'm under the impression Dreads will dies fast in 6th edition. Three glances and they're dead. You have to hide just 25% of your vehicle to get cover now. So you may get more cover saves but it may be not enough to prevent the "glance death".... I may be wrong but I think they reign of dreads is coming to an end. It's sad because I really like dread. Maybe it's time to use those Dreadknights ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I may be wrong but I think they reign of dreads is coming to an end. It's sad because I really like dread. Maybe it's time to use those Dreadknights :D Our Senex Antiquii will endure as they ever did. I still have faith in them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dimetrius Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 After reading all those Horus Heresy books I've always wanted to deploy an "Air Assault" Grey Knights army. It looks like this might be a valid army type in 6th. I'm overjoyed. Something like GM 5 Pala's 5 Terminators x 2 3 Stormravens 2 Dreadknights might be playable now. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I may be wrong but I think they reign of dreads is coming to an end. It's sad because I really like dread. Maybe it's time to use those Dreadknights :P Our Senex Antiquii will endure as they ever did. I still have faith in them. I really hope so. By the way since now we have 50% chances of getting stun/shaken results on the vehicle chart fortitude may be even more useful... After reading all those Horus Heresy books I've always wanted to deploy an "Air Assault" Grey Knights army. It looks like this might be a valid army type in 6th. I'm overjoyed. Something like GM 5 Pala's 5 Terminators x 2 3 Stormravens 2 Dreadknights might be playable now. :D Air Assault armies seem not just playble but even competitive in 6th edition Fluffy list but I'm looking for even more flyers via allied detachment. My purpose is to field a comsiderable flyers "firepower" to turn the "sky" into a "denied area" for my opponent (for those not familiar with the term in military denied area is "an area under enemy or unfriendly control in which friendly forces cannot expect to operate successfully within existing operational constraints and force capabilities.") I believe this would require more than three Stormravens. I was thinking about fielding GK strike squads, in power armour, in order to save some point and fielding allied flyers or even a second FOC at 2000pts. I recognize my project is a little "uncoventional" thus any help is very appreciated. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturnine Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I´m ahead of you. I´m already working on my models for my 2000 points SR Intervention Force. GM with Halbert, Rad and Psychstroke grenades 10 Purifiers with Halberts Venerable Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF 5 Terminators with 1 Hammer, 4 Halberts and 1 Psycannon 5 Terminators with 1 Hammer, 4 Halberts and 1 Psycannon Storm Raven With AC and MM Storm Raven with AC and MM Storm Raven with AC and MM Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF Dreadnought with AC and DCCW with HF I REALLY like this list, are you using autocannons or assault cannons on your dreadnought? and are you taking psy ammo? and why only one venerable? also, how do GK dreadnoughts do with a DCCW? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3100906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 @Cmdr Shepard: Even with the 5th edition we have heared so often: "Meh, dreadnoughts too easy to destroy. Better taking this or that..." They will endure. @saturnine: Assault Cannons. No psybolt ammo and only one ven dread because i have no points left. Maybe i will drop the ven dread for a third normal dread and give the dread and the Purifiers psybolt ammo. They do well for me. Other them a SM dread our doomfists are also force weapons which means instant death for monsterous creatures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3101125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 It seems that in 2k or above army lists, you double the FOC slots, which not only lets you select twice as many units from both your primary as your allied attachment, it also means you need double the minimum as well. So at 2k and above, you need at least 2 HQ and 4 Troops, so lists like the one Dark Bjoern posted don't seem to be legal anymore. So unless you take Coteaz and Inquisitorial Henchmen, you'll have to spend easily half of your 2k lists on HQs and Troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3101374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 It seems that in 2k or above army lists, you double the FOC slots, which not only lets you select twice as many units from both your primary as your allied attachment, it also means you need double the minimum as well. So at 2k and above, you need at least 2 HQ and 4 Troops, so lists like the one Dark Bjoern posted don't seem to be legal anymore. So unless you take Coteaz and Inquisitorial Henchmen, you'll have to spend easily half of your 2k lists on HQs and Troops. You may choose to use a second FOC, you are not forced to do it. So if you want 1-3 Stormraven you have to field 1 HQ and 2 Troops, If you want 4-6 Stormravens you need 2 HQ and 4 Troops. Anyway every "flyer" list I try to write down has a small number of models on the table. I supsect it may reduce its competitivity, even though flyers have a huge potential. As I mentioned before I'm looking to increase the number of flyers even via allied forces (more useful than spending points on further HQ and troops). I still need help, Battle Brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3101391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ah that's good news, as for 2k point lists you hardly ever need the extra slots anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3101456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ah that's good news, as for 2k point lists you hardly ever need the extra slots anyway. It's a chance not an obbligation. :D A second FOC may be useful at 2k for IG that can field cheap HQ but a second HQ on GK armies means a lot of points we could use for other units. Anyway I had an idea for the Flyers list, let me know what you think about it, Battle Brothers. HQ: Still to be determined. Someone with Psychic Communication may guarantee turn 2 arrive of flyers. Troops: 10 GK Terminators with 2 Psycannons. 10 men GK Strike Squad with 2 Psycannons Fast Supports: Stormraven Stormraven with typhoon ML I reached 1105 pts. Allied Army: Necron. HQ Necron Overlord (out of the box version ;) ) Troops: 5 Necron Warriors Dedicate Transport : Night Scythe Heavy Support: Doom Scythe Allies reach 430 pts for a total of 1535. 465 pts available. Any suggestion will be very appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3101595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 *targeting the necrons and igniting my Incinerator* Do not suffer the alien to live! Damn, i hate the new allies rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3102014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 *targeting the necrons and igniting my Incinerator*Do not suffer the alien to live! Damn, i hate the new allies rules. I may consider them an Adeptus Mechanicus force, ;) Creative mind can make our hobby even more pleasing :D Beside GK and Necron cooperated in the past. Tesseracts came from Necrons, after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3102020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Yeah, well, Trollzyn has a lot to answer for and the other Dynasties are gearing up to crush him. Thing to remember about the Doom Scythe: The Death Ray beam can't be targetted against Fliers unless the 'scythe goes Skyfire, but if the beam happens to pass through a flier on its way to hit another unit, then it will cut straight through. The other "full flier" list you might want to ally in is Elysians. They can take Valkyries as dedicated transports. Plop down an Infantry Platoon and a command squad and that's a potential 13 Valkyries allied to the force... and even though Elysian squads are all 5 points dearer than their C:IG equivalents (to cover Deep Strike and Iron Discipline), they're still cheaper than a 5-man Necron Warrior squad, with the Valkyrie being the same price as a Night Scythe. Use your allied Fast Attack for a Vendetta squadron and your Heavy Support for a Thunderbolt or Lightning... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3102290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, well, Trollzyn has a lot to answer for and the other Dynasties are gearing up to crush him. Thing to remember about the Doom Scythe: The Death Ray beam can't be targetted against Fliers unless the 'scythe goes Skyfire, but if the beam happens to pass through a flier on its way to hit another unit, then it will cut straight through. The other "full flier" list you might want to ally in is Elysians. They can take Valkyries as dedicated transports. Plop down an Infantry Platoon and a command squad and that's a potential 13 Valkyries allied to the force... and even though Elysian squads are all 5 points dearer than their C:IG equivalents (to cover Deep Strike and Iron Discipline), they're still cheaper than a 5-man Necron Warrior squad, with the Valkyrie being the same price as a Night Scythe. Use your allied Fast Attack for a Vendetta squadron and your Heavy Support for a Thunderbolt or Lightning... I suppose Trollzyn is Trazyn :) Anyway I plan to use the Death Ray to ground attack purposes. I'll use the Night Scyte as interceptor, and of course a Stormraven if needed (TL las Cannon+ Typhon ML is an interceptor configuration :( ) Are you sure Death Beam will cut straight through a flyers if you fired on the ground? I hadn't the chance to read every entry in the Necron FAQ (There are too many FAQs to read) I supposed it couldn't damage a flyer if you target a ground unit. Since it was unclear I thought to not giving it the chance to hit both ground units and flyerss with the same line. Anyway Elysian may be a problem. There are very few players in my local store than want to play against IA rules. Most of them fear they are unbalanced. So currenlty I have just two choices: Ally my GK with Necrons and field their flyer transports plus a single Doom Scyte or ally my GK with IG and field a Vendetta Squadron. I'm a little skeptical about flyers squadrons: they need more room to manouver and you have to move at least 18" with only a 90° pivot. Necrons will give me more flyers but their units are not very cheap thus they will reduce the already limited number of GK I can field. IG will allow me to field a good number of inftary units tasked to claim the objective while me GK will advance. I'll have less flyers but I can have a signle heavy support squadron. Basilisk is tempting for a GK army. 240" range with no line of sight required. Very tempting ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3103197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Apart from the fact that the model is... okay at best, any reason why the Stormtalon is not popular? As the Stormraven is now bundled (with the Stormtalon) inside the "Space Marine Vehicles" list of the BRB, I figure it's probably okay to have it in a GK list, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3104281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Ally Marines just to get a Talon? Sadly, we're still unable to use it as the GK. I guess GW think the Raven is good enough for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3104390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Apart from the fact that the model is... okay at best, any reason why the Stormtalon is not popular? As the Stormraven is now bundled (with the Stormtalon) inside the "Space Marine Vehicles" list of the BRB, I figure it's probably okay to have it in a GK list, no? Ally Marines just to get a Talon? Sadly, we're still unable to use it as the GK. I guess GW think the Raven is good enough for us. Currently I'm trying to build a list with the flyers I have in my collection. I'll buy more of them (including a couple of Stormtalos and Vendettas) but right now I have just 2 Stormravens and 2 necrons flyers. You know, in 5th "flyers models" were not very competitive. Beside I can field only one Talon. I wanted to try to "flyer spam" list just to see how it works. However they problem with flyers is you get too much of them or to few :lol: Anyway I made a list with the models I have but since its includes the Necron models (they should count as Adeptus Mechanicus) I suppose the forum rules allow me to discuss in the "army lists" section. I'll post it asap and I'll post a link to so you may tell me what you think :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3105109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ally Marines just to get a Talon? Sadly, we're still unable to use it as the GK. I guess GW think the Raven is good enough for us. Not allying marine, just outright use talons. Unless you've got a very strick gaming group, I'd be surprised if they refused... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3105169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ally Marines just to get a Talon? Sadly, we're still unable to use it as the GK. I guess GW think the Raven is good enough for us. Not allying marine, just outright use talons. Unless you've got a very strick gaming group, I'd be surprised if they refused... You mean stormtalons in a GK army, placing them in Fast Support section? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3105181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ally Marines just to get a Talon? Sadly, we're still unable to use it as the GK. I guess GW think the Raven is good enough for us. Not allying marine, just outright use talons. Unless you've got a very strick gaming group, I'd be surprised if they refused... If you houserule it in your gaming group, sure, but it's not codex legal unless you use allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254900-grey-knights-air-support-army-aka-flyers-spam/#findComment-3105240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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