BA FORUM 6th Ed. CHALLENGE

[Morticon]

Hey guys, this is both a challenge and a request to all the gamers out there.

 

 

6th Edition is going to shake things up so heavily that things will never be the same.

How quickly we learn to adapt our tactics, lists and playstyle will be what determines how successful we are generally.

 

So, here's what I propose.

 

 

As KEEN as most of us will be to completely revamp our lists, I have a challenge.

 

Don't.

 

 

Basically, do your best to try put up a battle report of your last/most successful FIFTH edition LIST and use it in a 6th Edition game - as is.

 

My theory is that our collective experiences on what will not work, or what is not as effective will be much more beneficial than a little bit of luck with a new combination.

 

If our tried and tested units/tactics fall on their faces, then we know something is amiss!

 

 

If you can contribute to this forum with a BatRep in this thread, that would be hugely appreciated by all.

 

 

Gauntlet is down!

 

-Mort.

[Zedrenael]

I will do you one better Morticon. I have a local tournament coming up that is a "Goodbye to 5th Edition Tournament". So one last tournament to say goodbye to this set of rules. I will do a batrep on all these rounds for the tournament and let you know how I do. Then two weeks from now there is a "Hello to 6th Edition Tournament". In both tournaments I will use the same 2000pt tournament and post my batreps and results for both.

[Morticon]

I will do you one better Morticon. I have a local tournament coming up that is a "Goodbye to 5th Edition Tournament". So one last tournament to say goodbye to this set of rules. I will do a batrep on all these rounds for the tournament and let you know how I do. Then two weeks from now there is a "Hello to 6th Edition Tournament". In both tournaments I will use the same 2000pt tournament and post my batreps and results for both.

 

You hero !!

 

That will be amazing dude. Thank you so much.

 

I'm sure we'd all learn a lot from that.

[Zedrenael]

Sorry for repeated statements and bad grammer. I have pulled another all nighter.

[Tamwulf]

That's a nice sentiment Morticon, but I'm pretty sure once I read the rulebook, it will be pretty obvious that some combo's I'm using now in my army won't be as effective as they once were, and that newer combo's will be better. If I know something isn't going to play as well, while something else will play better, why not change?

 

I also don't get to really play 40K all that much- maybe 1-2 a month if that. Every time I play, I try and use a different list to try new ideas out. If I played say, 3-4 times a week, then yeah, I can see your challenge being helpful for what works/doesn't work for us.

 

From all the rumors and discussions I have read/seen discussed so far, it's my personal opinion that the Blood Angels will probably be the army that changes the least. We have a very strong, self-sufficient army book with no glaring weakness.

 

We have the best flyer in the game (Stormraven), best tanks (Baal Pred and FLYING LAND RAIDERS!!!), awesome special units- Vanguard, Sternguard, Honor Guard, Sanguinary Guard. Best Dreadnoughts- Furisio and a Librarian Dread that will likely become an auto include depending on Psychic Powers. Troops- who else can take a a kick butt DC Dread as a troops choice? Awesome Assault Troops- really, we have it all, and this is all before we throw in our awesome special characters.

 

There really isn't any need for us to ally with any other army. Indeed, I foresee the Blood Angels being one of the most allied armies taken by other armies- more so then the Grey Knights! My prediction for what people will be taking from the Blood Angels as Allies- Gabriel Seth (extremely points efficient, cheap, and not a bad choice), an Assault Squad in a Razorback for the mandatory FOC , then Sanguinary Priests (best way to give your army FNP), and a Stormraven.

 

If you are min/maxing, which you probably are if you are using Blood Angels as an ally for your army- You'll take a Librarian, three model Death Company (min size), and then your three Sanguinary Priests. That'll cost you 310 points. What do you get? A Librarian with access to the awesome BA Psychic Powers, a throw away three model unit that has the potential to kill far more than it's points value, and three 6" FNP bubbles on three Independent Characters. Invest another 100 points and you make those three units even BETTER. That's only 15% of your 2000 point army to make it so much better/durable.

 

As one of my local IG Players already stated- "...BA Librarian and Dreadnaught Librarian, oh and perhaps a sanguinary priest to get all my guard units within 6" feel no pain. (Think about those blob squads with fnp)". Indeed- can you imagine 50+ Guardsmen with FNP? Sorry- mini-rant on Allies (I dislike the rule).

[Morticon]

More for a fun, and beneficial introspective that we can all share.

 

Ive found in past rule changes that automatic assumptions on my part sometimes misguided me.

Just a thang for peeps to try out if they're keen.

[Soups]

No problem for me! My second army is Tyranids. Can't ally and...alot of my friends run Grey Knights and Dark Eldar.

 

*sigh*

[Dark Legionnare]

Well, my Blood Angels models haven't changed since early 4th Edition, I've been using the same build and tactics, units adjusted for points, since 4th. I definitely won't change up. I'll be sure to play a game this weekend with my Angels Cruentus and report back to this thread.

[vahouth]

As KEEN as most of us will be to completely revamp our lists, I have a challenge.

 

Don't.

 

Basically, do your best to try put up a battle report of your last/most successful FIFTH edition LIST and use it in a 6th Edition game - as is.

 

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! :D

Btw I'm almost certain that my last successful 5th edition List is a lot better now in the 6th! :P

[thade]

Since I was going to do this anyway, I'm in. While I use the BA codex though, I use it in a very non-standard way and - really - the lists I run are going to benefit from the updates.

 

My Vanguard...one guy with a fist, two storm shields, and a few vanilla guys. Remember this config? Yea, well..now that Fist guy gets Look Out, Sirs! from my Shield Bearers. About freakin' time.

 

My Sternguard has much the same benefit, as well as the fists in my Tactical squads.

 

I've been running a full ML Dev squad for a year now. All of a sudden they are looking like the go-to anti flyer team.

 

I tend not to take upgrades on my tacticals, other than the power fist. Tons of rapid-fire.

 

Whatever my melee solution is (be it Vanguard or an Assault Team) they're riding around in a Land Raider...so the change to disembarking from Rhinos and not being able to assault, not so bad for me.

 

My jump team (really, all of our jump teams) got some nice buffs.

 

Oh, and Corbulo - who I've been using since early last year - now has a 2+ FNP that works against basically everything.

 

Yea. Good times. :D

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

I will be going to the Irish Masters tomorrow and is basically good bye to 5th as 6th is released tomorrow too. I reckon the list I'm bringing will be as good in 6th if not better. It will however have added DC :D

[darth_giles]

I can't accept this challenge, unfortunately. My Doom Skulls don't have a functional list. Good luck, everyone who does. I'll be looking forward to those battle reports.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Yeah, sounds good... I'll do a similar thing to Zedranael. We had a farewell to fifth tournament last night (sleep deprived bat repts are here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=254940 ), and I'll play the same list for my next few games. That, or the 1500 point list I've been using most often which has been (mostly) unchanged for the past year.

[Morticon]

Heya guys,

 

So with the hype around the launch of 6th, I didnt bother to do a write up of a small 1500 point "No Special Character" tournament we had here last week. (5th ed).

I did win :D Which is a bonus.

 

What's interesting however, is I used the same list today to try things out.

Here's what I had:

 

Librarian - Rage/Fear

 

Libby Dread- Fear/Wings

Libby Dread- Shield/Wings

 

8 DC- PF, TH

Rhino - Dozer, light

5 RAS - mg

Razor - TLLC, light

5 RAS - mg

Razor - TLAC, light

5 RAS - mg

Razor - TLPG,LC, light

 

Baal Pred - TLAC,HBSS, light

Pred - AutoCan,LCSS

 

1500

 

Obviously no priest needed for this type of list and no special characters allowed.

 

 

This list is based off of my tourney winning 1750 list, which also took my Draigo nemesis to a draw recently.

I chose not to modify any of the powers, though Divination may be a decent sub for the main libby.

 

 

I played against the following:

 

Logan

Njal - Term Armour

Rune Priest- master of runes, storm caller, LL.

6 Tem Wolf Guard - 1cyclone, 2hammers, 2 shields, 1pair of claws, 2frostblades

10 hunters - 2pg

10 hunters - 2pg(or maybe melta)

6 Long Fangs- 2MM, 2ML,1PC

 

Pretty odd list, but I wasnt going to turn my nose up against the wolves.

 

I was SHOCKED to find that they have not FAQed the ruinic staff and that the wolves still have a 24" dispel to any power. VERY annoying and very lame. Not to mention Njals 3+ <_<

 

 

Anyway we played the old pitched battle set up (dawn of war?) and the mission where the objectives are numbered randomly (maybe the scouring?).

 

I got first turn, and night fight was on.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not gonna bore you with a full batrep, I'll just give some observations.

 

 

 

1. Wolves are stupid tough still<_<

 

2. The LoS mechanism is VERY powerful with models that can get 2+ and/or 3++ saves. Even more so when models are ICs or immune to ID. Term characters just take point and essentially the entire squad has a 3++. I'm not particularly happy about it. Paladins will still be a nightmare and wound shenanigans are still here. Essentially with Draigo taking point, all paladins in his squad now have a 3++ save

 

3. Razor squads while now not exactly "useless" do not look to be overly useful at all. The razorback brings some decent firepower, but the squads inside which I could use for synergised attacks are no longer viable. Even though I wasnt playing fighty RAS-razor squads as I usually do, I could quickly pick that up when I realised how often I could do nothing with the disembarked units.

 

4. Sarges of Razorback 5man squads could often use their init and their FC to engage squad members while the grunts tied up ICs, now this is no longer the case as sarges will always be targeted my heroes. This is going to call for a big change in tactics or more list design on my side.

 

5. I REALLY like the new shooting system, though, LOS sniping (ala 4th) is back in and makes me feel dirty to use :P

 

6. Vehicles for me felt definitely "weaker" - they're more useful to the end (with glances not stopping them from doing stuff), but die quicker overall (if that makes sense).

 

7. The inability of vehicles to contest is VERY heavy and a blow to my particular style. I find I rely on small squads and my vehicles to create diversions. Now, I will have to rely on reliance which certain other armies do well.

 

Those are some of my thoughts for now.

 

Ill put up a pic or two later.

 

 

At the risk of sounding a bit all doom and gloom (which im not at all - just hesitant) I do believe that if people thought wolves were a problem before - theyre in for a rough, rough 6th edition.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I played Wolves on Tuesday and managed to eke out a win, exclusively due to the mission being Big Guns and I went straight for his longfangs to put me well ahead on VPs. Wolves are very tough, as they've got good shooting, and Overwatch followed by Counter-Attack makes charging them potentially more damaging than them charging you. Much like you, Mort, I got spanked by the Runic staff on turn 1, then I knew what it did and stayed well away until he was dead...its really one of those things where knowing is half the battle.

 

Also, Mort, for the Look out Sir roll, I believe that takes place immediately after wounds are allocated, and wounds are allocated before saves are made. Right hand column of p15 for "mixed saves" has the wounds being allocated at step 1, before saves are rolled, so it'd bounce to a paladin before the 3++ save of Draigo. There's still nothing to stop him sponging the hits until he's close to death though.

[Morticon]

Also, Mort, for the Look out Sir roll, I believe that takes place immediately after wounds are allocated, and wounds are allocated before saves are made. Right hand column of p15 for "mixed saves" has the wounds being allocated at step 1, before saves are rolled, so it'd bounce to a paladin before the 3++ save of Draigo. There's still nothing to stop him sponging the hits until he's close to death though.

 

I stand to be corrected here (so lemme know where im going wrong) but... the way ive read it in a case where (for example) Draigo is taking point of 5 pallies.

 

Our HG jumps into rapid fire plasma range, and they do 5 S7 AP2 wounds .

 

Draigo then starts rolling:

 

1. 3++ Pass.

2. 3++ Pass.

3. Fail -> LoS

4. Fail -> LoS again

5. 3++ Pass

 

To my knowledge, the wound "allocation" is not like 5th ed and they do not spread until the unique is killed? No?

[Plague Angel]

I'm finding the Official Rules thread on Look Out Sir helpful. It's one of those things I'm just going to have to practice.

[Nachocuban]

As one of my local IG Players already stated- "...BA Librarian and Dreadnaught Librarian, oh and perhaps a sanguinary priest to get all my guard units within 6" feel no pain. (Think about those blob squads with fnp)". Indeed- can you imagine 50+ Guardsmen with FNP? Sorry- mini-rant on Allies (I dislike the rule).

 

FnP from priests only effects other BA units. see the 6th FAQ

[Plague Angel]

As one of my local IG Players already stated- "...BA Librarian and Dreadnaught Librarian, oh and perhaps a sanguinary priest to get all my guard units within 6" feel no pain. (Think about those blob squads with fnp)". Indeed- can you imagine 50+ Guardsmen with FNP? Sorry- mini-rant on Allies (I dislike the rule).

 

FnP from priests only effects other BA units. see the 6th FAQ

 

Also, Libby Dread and SanPriest are competing for that Elite choice. Can't take both as allies.

[Emperors Immortals]

I'm finding the Official Rules thread on Look Out Sir helpful. It's one of those things I'm just going to have to practice.

 

 

Cheers for that PA, very useful.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I'm finding the Official Rules thread on Look Out Sir helpful. It's one of those things I'm just going to have to practice.

 

Wow, that thread is a tad bit too confusing for my tastes. So basically, you may LO,S! on characters BEFORE rolling armor saves, not after.

[Morticon]

I'm finding the Official Rules thread on Look Out Sir helpful. It's one of those things I'm just going to have to practice.

 

Wow, that thread is a tad bit too confusing for my tastes. So basically, you may LO,S! on characters BEFORE rolling armor saves, not after.

 

 

Its WAY overcomplicated.

 

But, i learned that:

 

You declare your LoS BEFORE you roll to save. So no more roll to save and then fail and then palm the wound off.

 

Its a BIG departure from what a lot of people have been doing/saying so far.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Its WAY overcomplicated.

 

But, i learned that:

 

You declare your LoS BEFORE you roll to save. So no more roll to save and then fail and then palm the wound off.

 

Its a BIG departure from what a lot of people have been doing/saying so far.

 

Phew, I'm glad I got the gist of that thread. Thanks for the clarification.

 

5. I REALLY like the new shooting system, though, LOS sniping (ala 4th) is back in and makes me feel dirty to use tongue.gif

 

That's just dirty. Perhaps tactical and sterngard squads are more useful for us now. Even more so with devastators. We can make a "V" formation with our rhinos leaving the tip open. Then we just point, oh lets say, a signum lascannon through the hole at a specific dude we want to kill.

 

 

What are your thoughts on the humble RAS with jump packs?

[JasonfromFW]

Hello brothers!

 

First of all sorry for my english, as it is not my native language.

 

So here's my old V5 list played in my first V6 game.

 

Blood sons, half 3rd company - 2000pts

Captain, TLC, JP, MB

Honour guard, JP, BC, Company standard, TH

 

Techamrine, servo harness

Contemptor, EA, 2*HF

 

Tactical squad, LC, M, sarge with PF and combi melta in a Rhino

Tactical squad, LC, M, sarge with PF and combi melta in a Rhino

Tactical squad, PC, P, sarge with PF and combi plasma in a Rhino

Assault squad, 2*flamers, sarge with PF and HF

 

Devastator squad, 4*HB

 

Build this way for fluff reasons mainly but suprisingly effective!

 

I played against the following GK:

 

GM

5 GKT

10 GKT

2 Dreadknights

5 interceptors

 

We played the Apocalyspse style set up and the mission Purge the xenos.

 

He got fisrt turn, no night fight.

 

 

Here are my observations:

 

2+ save is silly...

Power fist sarges were duelled (is that a true word?) so they can fight only one terminator.

Feel no pain against my plasmas were not a good news...

PF tactictal sarges are not the way to go.

The new shooting system is really great.

Overwatch is ridiculously funny with HB...

Melta bombs with PA1 and the ability to attack a MC with are a mandatory option for me now...

LC with AP3 on my Captain really hurts me, and where is my damn artificier armor? :cuss

[Morticon]

Bonjour!

 

Don't stress about the English, i'm sure it's better than all of our French. Thanks for posting your observations.

 

How did you find the list played differently from 5th Ed? Other than the fist sarge - did you notice anything else?

Also, when your fist sarge dueled ("challenged") the Term Sarge who won? And if you won, do you know that after that challenge there should be no more characters to challenge (duel) with.

 

 

What are your thoughts on the humble RAS with jump packs?

 

 

Feeling a bit two minded about these guys at the moment. Change in FNP and FC has their utility a bit boned ><;