Nemesis Force Swords in 6th

[L30n1d4s]

So, based on th rumors, the Psychic Disciplines available to GKs might add an entirely new level of play to the "normal" NFW used by most GK troops (i.e. GKSS, GK Interceptors, Purgation Squads, and even Purifiers).

 

According to the codex, Nemesis Force Swords add +1 to the Invul of a model in CC, unless it doesn't have an invul, in which case, there is no bonus (i.e. it is just force weapon with the Daemonbane rule). Thus, grey knight units in PA don't get any benefit from Nemesis Force Swords unless they have an Iron Halo, like a Brotherhood Champ does.

 

Looking at the rumors about Psychic disciplines, there are two powers that GKs have access to that could change this.

 

Under the "Divination" discipline, the "Forewarning" power is rumored to give the targeted friendly unit a 4++ save.

 

Under the "Telekinesis" discipline, the "Telekine Dome" is rumored to give all friendly units within 12" of the psyker a 5++ save.

 

So, if a GK Librarian uses Divination and gets "Forewarning", he can buff a friendly Strike squad or Purifier squad up to a 4++ save which, once they hit CC, goes up to a 3++.... now we are looking at Assault Terminator Lite units for less than 25 points a model, pretty impressive.

 

If the Librarian gets "Telekine Dome" instead, he can buff multiple squads up to a 5++ invul... which is ramped up to a 4++ in close combat. So, put the Librarian in the middle of your batteline, get "Telekine Dome" off, and you can have multiple GK squads rolling into close combat with a very respectable invul save at their default cost, since they all come with nemesis force swords.

 

This all requires rolling for the right Psychic powers, of course, and getting the power off, but if done can be a game changer for our power armored squads when they get stuck in with enemy assault units.

[Gentlemanloser]

Forewarning + Purifiers with NFS = Win?

 

:D

[Cmdr Shepard]

If a model gain an invul save then the Nemesis Force Sword should give a +1 bonus in CC. I see no problem with this intepretation. Now a Nemesi Force sword on a PAGK makes a lot of sense.

There is only one small issue: You cannot choose your powers if you use the rulebook disciplines. You have to roll and even with a Mastery 3 Librarian you have 50% chances of getting the power you need.

Unless GK FAQ will allow us to choose our powers as it was rumored months ago...

[Abaddonshand]

So, based on th rumors, the Psychic Disciplines available to GKs might add an entirely new level of play to the "normal" NFW used by most GK troops (i.e. GKSS, GK Interceptors, Purgation Squads, and even Purifiers).

 

According to the codex, Nemesis Force Swords add +1 to the Invul of a model in CC, unless it doesn't have an invul, in which case, there is no bonus (i.e. it is just force weapon with the Daemonbane rule). Thus, grey knight units in PA don't get any benefit from Nemesis Force Swords unless they have an Iron Halo, like a Brotherhood Champ does.

 

Looking at the rumors about Psychic disciplines, there are two powers that GKs have access to that could change this.

 

Under the "Divination" discipline, the "Forewarning" power is rumored to give the targeted friendly unit a 4++ save.

 

Under the "Telekinesis" discipline, the "Telekine Dome" is rumored to give all friendly units within 12" of the psyker a 5++ save.

 

So, if a GK Librarian uses Divination and gets "Forewarning", he can buff a friendly Strike squad or Purifier squad up to a 4++ save which, once they hit CC, goes up to a 3++.... now we are looking at Assault Terminator Lite units for less than 25 points a model, pretty impressive.

 

If the Librarian gets "Telekine Dome" instead, he can buff multiple squads up to a 5++ invul... which is ramped up to a 4++ in close combat. So, put the Librarian in the middle of your batteline, get "Telekine Dome" off, and you can have multiple GK squads rolling into close combat with a very respectable invul save at their default cost, since they all come with nemesis force swords.

 

This all requires rolling for the right Psychic powers, of course, and getting the power off, but if done can be a game changer for our power armored squads when they get stuck in with enemy assault units.

 

 

You sir, win all the internets! :D

[L30n1d4s]

Correct, there is still a good bit of "if" about all this, as you have to roll to get these powers, like Abbadonshand pointed out. Then you also have to get the power off without it being stopped by a failed roll or enemy Psychic defense.

 

One other point, for GK Terminators and Paladins, if you do manage to get "Forewarning" selected, you can raise the invul up to a 4++, which can then be raised to a 3++ in close combat, putting them on par with Assault Terminators. I expect this would work very well with the Paladin Deathstar.... imagine, a squad of ten 2 wound, WS 5 models with a 2+ save, a 3++ save in close combat, and potentially even FNP if you pony up the points for an Apothecary... all of this while still having SBs, Psycannons, Force Weapons, and Hammerhand and Holocaust powers, plus a Brotherhood Banner to give each model a base 3 attacks.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Not to mention, every Paladin is a character now, so they can 'Look Out Sir!' eachother, make challenges to snipe out powerfists etc. Yep, PaladinStar just got even worse ;)

[thade]

The sword only affords a +1 to Invuln in CC, no? Psychic Hoods are restricted to 6" range, where this power would really do what you want it to do. Interesting.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The sword only affords a +1 to Invuln in CC, no? Psychic Hoods are restricted to 6" range, where this power would really do what you want it to do. Interesting.

 

No no, thats not how it works now. Let me break it down;

 

'Deny the Witch' is the generic rule everything has now. It works on a 6 by default. It only denies powers which directly target the unit

 

If you have any Mastery Level whatsoever, you get +1 (hence why Knights get a 5+ for 'Deny the Witch' rolls)

 

If you have Mastery level higher than the enemy psyker casting, your 'Deny the Witch' roll is boosted by +2 (so you deny on a 4+)

 

Psychic hoods let you essentially 'Deny' for friendly units (ie so you can benefit from your Mastery Level, and thus have a higher chance of succeeding). It only works for protecting units within 6" of the dude with the psychic hood though.

 

Psychic hoods, and in fact all 'Deny the Witch 'rolls, do nothing if the power doesn't target them directly. Hence, nova, beam and buff powers cannot be denied. Debuff can be, but only if it targets you directly.

[XaClocKWorKoX]

Libby can pick and choice or "swap" powers the fun part is this codex > brb so you can take more that 3 powers at anytime

 

Libby mastery lvl 3 can have

More than 3 powers but can only cast 2 to 3 a turn depending what

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Libby can pick and choice or "swap" powers the fun part is this codex > brb so you can take more that 3 powers at anytime

 

Libby mastery lvl 3 can have

More than 3 powers but can only cast 2 to 3 a turn depending what

 

I might be misunderstanding you, but no, you only get two powers when you swap (three if you upgrade to Mastery 3). The FAQ states that the Librarian either chooses as many powers as he likes from our codex (at the listed cost in his army entry), or he swaps out for Divination/Pyromancy/Telekinesis (any combo thereof). If we could keep 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding' etc on top of the new psychic powers, that would be a bit OP.

[XaClocKWorKoX]

i might of missunderstood the phrasing of the FAQ. wouldnt be the first time from GW

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah they sorta make a habit of writing poor wording. Basically its an all or nothing swap. So for a Librarian, it's probably better to take 'Might', 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding' etc, as they are unique to him (no other psyker in the entire game has access to those powers). On Coteaz or an Inquisitor though, its pretty good (especially on Inquisitors, as they keep 'Hammerhand').

[RedemptionNL]

Hmm, actually, upon reading the FAQ, I'm not sure if the 'Hammerhand cannot be exchanged in this manner' only applies to the Librarian or not...

 

Would mean that Coteaz and the regular Inquisitors do lose Hammerhand when they switch to the new powers.

[thade]

Doesn't the FAQ explicitly forbid exchangig Hammerhand?

[RedemptionNL]

Well, the full FAQ entry is:

 

A Grey Knights Librarian may use the psychic disciplines found

in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in Codex:

Grey Knights. If he does so, generate a number of psychic

powers equal to his Mastery Level from the Divination,

Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination)

before armies are deployed. If he does so he may not purchase

additional powers. Hammerhand cannot be exchanged in this

manner.

 

An Inquisitor with Mastery Level 1 can exchange his psychic

power for a single roll on either the Divination, Pyromancy or

Telekinesis disciplines. Coteaz can generate two powers from

either the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in

any combination) in place of those listed on his profile.

 

The note about not being able to exchange Hammerhand seems to be in context of the Librarian only. It then goes on by saying that Level 1 Inquisitors can exchange their power (which would be either Hammerhand or Psychic Communion), and Coteaz replaces all the powers listed on his profile (which would include Hammerhand).

[thade]

Oh, yea, that's true. The Inq can def swap to a book power...the Inq only has one power anyway. :)

[Zebub]

Psychic hoods, and in fact all 'Deny the Witch 'rolls, do nothing if the power doesn't target them directly. Hence, nova, beam and buff powers cannot be denied. Debuff can be, but only if it targets you directly.

With all due respect, are you completely sure about that? Given the wording of 'Deny the Witch' ("If a psychic power is targeted on an enemy unit, and the Psychic test is passed, the target can attempt to Deny the Witch..." and "If a psychic power targets two or more units, each affected unit can attempt to Deny the Witch") and the wording of Maelstrom ("automatically targets and hits all units") and Nova ("automatically targets and hits all enemy units"), I came to the conclusion that 'Deny the Witch' rolls are allowed agains Maelstrom and Nova powers. When it comes to Withcfire, Focused Witchfire, and Beam powers, I am not so sure. I am also in doubt about whether 'Deny the Witch' rolls can be attempted agains "old Nova" powers, like Null Zone.

[Gentlemanloser]

I also take from the Faq that a PML3 GK Librarian would end up with 4 Powers.

 

Hammerhand, and the three rolls (or default options) gained from his three PML.

[Abaddonshand]

Yes, that's it exactly.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

With all due respect, are you completely sure about that? Given the wording of 'Deny the Witch' ("If a psychic power is targeted on an enemy unit, and the Psychic test is passed, the target can attempt to Deny the Witch..." and "If a psychic power targets two or more units, each affected unit can attempt to Deny the Witch") and the wording of Maelstrom ("automatically targets and hits all units") and Nova ("automatically targets and hits all enemy units"), I came to the conclusion that 'Deny the Witch' rolls are allowed agains Maelstrom and Nova powers. When it comes to Withcfire, Focused Witchfire, and Beam powers, I am not so sure. I am also in doubt about whether 'Deny the Witch' rolls can be attempted agains "old Nova" powers, like Null Zone.

 

Yeah, I asked about this and it affects any and all powers that directly target you. Which means nova, beam, witchfire and focused witchfire. Null Zone will also be affected, as 'Deny the Witch' triggers when you determine who is affected (ie measure what units are in range when the power activates). Which is nice, it would've been dumb to exempt them.

 

I also take from the Faq that a PML3 GK Librarian would end up with 4 Powers.

 

Hammerhand, and the three rolls (or default options) gained from his three PML.

 

This is incorrect. The FAQ clearly states that you can roll for one power per Mastery level. So if you are Mastery 2, you roll for two powers. If you are Mastery 3, you roll for three powers. 'Hammerhand' can NEVER be exchanged on a Librarian. On Coteaz or a generic Inquisitor however, 'Hammerhand' must be exchanged if they want to trade for the rulebook powers.

[Gentlemanloser]

This is incorrect. The FAQ clearly states that you can roll for one power per Mastery level. So if you are Mastery 2, you roll for two powers. If you are Mastery 3, you roll for three powers. 'Hammerhand' can NEVER be exchanged on a Librarian. On Coteaz or a generic Inquisitor however, 'Hammerhand' must be exchanged if they want to trade for the rulebook powers.

 

Isn't that what I said? lol. :jaw:

 

PML3 Libby. Generates three 'rolls'. He can't ever exchange Hammerhand, so ends up with Hammerhand + the three rolled powers.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Oh, my bad, I thought meant 'he gets another power to roll for'. :jaw: