Excessus Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Remember though, the dread is rumoured to have rampage. That's +d3 attacks in cc against most units. So I'd doubt that they won't be good in cc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It's more the threat that krak grenades/melta bombs now pose in CC compared to 5th, it massively increases the chance that your dread will fall over, especially against large squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargantuan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I fear that they'll only focus on the Thousand Sons instead of Tzeentch. I really like Tzeentch but the Sons are so damn boring and I dislike pretty much everything about them. More mutations instead of boring empty suits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 So, is it just me that will have sorcerers running around gifting everybody within range and themselves? And familiars seem like a nobrainer now, defense against perils, yay! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 How? I need something to stop my aspiring Sorcerers killing themselves :D I'm mainly worried we are going to be like Warriors of chaos, in that the mark of Tzeentch forces to take a fun, yet very weak lore compared to the rulebook ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I like the DP:s MoT, reroll save rolls of 1. That's quite nice... And I don't know if the aspiring sorcerers have access to familiars and more mastery/spells than one, but that would be quite awesome! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm not sure how, if at all, I'm going to be able to incorporate the heldrake and the two fiend creatures into my Thousand Sons warband... Just doesn't look like they fit the right aesthetic to me. From what I've seen of the new models it all looks designed with Word Bearers, Black Legion and Iron Warriors in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The dragon could fit with some work. Replace the head with daemonically twisted, enraged possibly steampunck Horus head (No, not the warmaster the other one) and it should look good, a Anubis/Wepwawet/Sobek/Sehkhemet head could look good as well, the fiends could be done to look like the Assyrian/Babylonian statues. Just not sure if I will be able to afford them with the new codex's price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I fear that they'll only focus on the Thousand Sons instead of Tzeentch. I really like Tzeentch but the Sons are so damn boring and I dislike pretty much everything about them. More mutations instead of boring empty suits! Well, you got your wish. Tzeentch Marines are a Go, but Thousand Sons are still awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I fear that they'll only focus on the Thousand Sons instead of Tzeentch. I really like Tzeentch but the Sons are so damn boring and I dislike pretty much everything about them. More mutations instead of boring empty suits! Well, you got your wish. Tzeentch Marines are a Go, but Thousand Sons are still awful. Not good if your army consists only of sons, but they are certainly not at all bad if you take one squad and use it where it would be tactically prudent. I think people seriously underrate the +4 invul save in 6ed where +5 cover is now prevalent. It also happens to make their bolters better against most armies compared to in 5ed. I think 2 large squads of Tzeentchian cultists supported by Sons will be rather good actually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I fear that they'll only focus on the Thousand Sons instead of Tzeentch. I really like Tzeentch but the Sons are so damn boring and I dislike pretty much everything about them. More mutations instead of boring empty suits! Well, you got your wish. Tzeentch Marines are a Go, but Thousand Sons are still awful. Elaborate please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So from what I can see from the actual codex pages that have been released there is some good news and some bad news for Tzeentch/Thousand Sons: 'Good': Ahriman is pretty tasty, his infiltrate ability is nice he has a decent stat line and has dropped in price, although he doesn't appear to have any perils protection in the form of a familiar The Mark/Icon system seems pretty solid, although our icon is a bit rubbish the mark can be applied to quite a few units to make them better for not too much pointswise. Rubric Marines have not gotten worse The Tzeentch Daemon Prince ability helps the place that DPs need it most now which is survivability. DPs are more expensive but you don't ever want to get close enough for one to assault you. Bad: Thousand Sons have not gotten better and are still appear to be over-costed (I've not seen the actual cost on an actual picture, but no one's saying its not 150 +23 per dude). In general they still are better than in 5th because of the cover changes making their inv. save and AP3 bolters better. However the Sorcerer is stuck taking a spell from Tzeentch, one of them. We don't know their final mastery level/no of spells chosen that I can see however, there is a picture of the reference guide, but not the actual page all the marks are described on. The Tzeentch lore is so-so, bolt is useful the others not so much on an AS. Sons are also as far as I can see SnP (looks like The Sorcerer Commands is completely gone), which means no overwatch, which sucks. No idea on what other options they can take (I assume the AS will have a few and the rubric's none). Once again they are the worst cult troop and outside of a themed list I don't think people will take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Elaborate please. Chaos Marines with the Mark of Tzeentch and Veterans of the Long War cost the same as regular space Marines, but Hate them and have a 5+ invulnerable save. Thousand Sons cost 8 points more than that each, don't have Hatred, are Slow and Purposeful (Which is a pure penalty for a squad with no heavy weapons), and their AP3 bolters still only knock Marines down to a cover save. Oh, and they pay some fifty odd points more for their unit leader because he can cast one of a very limited list of psychic powers. Rubric Marines have not gotten worse I disagree. Sorcerer Commands used to at least let us always shoot once at long range even if we move. Slow and Purposeful gives is a whole slew of drawbacks, while only giving us a bonus to assault things... as thousand sons. Also, we're assuming a 4+ invulnerable. Could just as easily be that it's now a 5+ (default for just having MoT under old rules) or even 6+ (Improved by 1 by the MoT from no Invun at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Wait, we don't have hatred? I thought we had veterans of the long war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 They definitely keep the 4+ invulnerable at least, the unit entry says they have Aura of Dark Glory and Mark of Tzeentch, AoDG is a 5+ inv save and MoT is +1 to your inv. save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerRed Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 They do get vet of the long war and 4++. Zeratil is right they aint gotten worse. Sorcerer commands just made slow and purposeful worse if the sorcerer died so how is it better than slow and purposeful? I'm just gutted they dont have sorcerer commands that makes them relentless when the sorcerer is alive but slow and purposeful when he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 ... You do realise that Slow and Purposeful gives you Relentless automatically, right? Sorcerer Commands meant you weren't Slow and Purposeful when he was alive. Thousand Sons got worse when 6th came out because unlike every other unit in the game, we didn't gain Overwatch. That's effectively the same as suddenly losing Overwatch. Also, we can take Veterans of the Long War, but I didn't include in the points calculations above. Veterans is an upgrade, not an automatic rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Veterans of the long war isn't really an issue imo, all Ksons are already leadership 10 and getting hatred isn't going to massively increase combat potential. Not getting overwatch does suck, I really don't understand that, but without divination it's not really very reliable anyway. I think it all balances out in the end, which ultimately means KSons are still the worst cult unit. Just trying to see a silver lining here, rather than bemoan what I can't change I'd prefer to look at what has and how we can use it to make rubrics as effective as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerRed Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 1... You do realise that Slow and Purposeful gives you Relentless automatically, right? 2.Sorcerer Commands meant you weren't Slow and Purposeful when he was alive. 3.Thousand Sons got worse when 6th came out because unlike every other unit in the game, we didn't gain Overwatch. That's effectively the same as suddenly losing Overwatch. 4.Also, we can take Veterans of the Long War, but I didn't include in the points calculations above. Veterans is an upgrade, not an automatic rule. 1.slow and purposeful dont give you relentless automatically (not in 6th) they are similar but relentless doesn't have the draw backs. 2.And sorcerer commands still meant you had slow and purposeful it just when he died you only rolled one dice for their movement not two and pick the highest. 3.Thats why I said if sorcerer command made them relentless (because you could still do overwatch, run, sweeping advances) it would be nice but they didnt. 4.Also from what ive seen we do get it automatically if not so what it's not that much of a big deal as we are :) in combat anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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