6th ed FAQ is out

[Chaplain Lucifer]

So our bikes are nerfed. (We didn't get skilled rider.) Our chaplains suck and our main psyker appears to be able to give the enemy a mild migraine if he really concentrates.

 

Our Bikers are now Toughness 5, not 4(5) so, our characters are no longer suffering Instant Death when hit by Strength 8 attacks. Similarly, when a Ravenwing Command Squad has an Apothecary in it, we're now getting Feel No Pain against Power Fists, Thunder Hammers etc.

 

How is that a nerf?

From what I've read now some weapons will take out 2 or 3 wounds. so the fact that we get extra toughness is nullified.. but I may be wrong.

[shortysl]

So our bikes are nerfed. (We didn't get skilled rider.) Our chaplains suck and our main psyker appears to be able to give the enemy a mild migraine if he really concentrates.

 

Our Bikers are now Toughness 5, not 4(5) so, our characters are no longer suffering Instant Death when hit by Strength 8 attacks. Similarly, when a Ravenwing Command Squad has an Apothecary in it, we're now getting Feel No Pain against Power Fists, Thunder Hammers etc.

 

How is that a nerf?

From what I've read now some weapons will take out 2 or 3 wounds. so the fact that we get extra toughness is nullified.. but I may be wrong.

 

Ok I take your point there, but even if that is true, such weapons only take effect if we fail our Jink save, and then our Feel No Pain save (admittedly, only in the case of Command Squads).

 

I'm sorry, I just don't agree that we've suffered under the new rules for not gaining Skilled Rider when we have in fact benefitted. All these threads are these days are about how such-and-such a unit has lost out. When did we become a Legion of pessimists? We're not Wolves moaning about our axes, we're not Daemons moaning about Grey Knights until we get Epidemius-uberlist-so-now-we're-great-knew-you-wouldn't-let-us-down-GW-kiss-kiss. We're not Chaos moaning about Abaddon being AP3 and Khârn being I1 but oh look Ahriman is Mastery Level 3.

 

Our Ravenwing just became more survivable. Our Deathwing just gained the ability to shoot down Fliers, AND became so much more dangerous in Assault.

 

We're the First Legion and if we can spend 10,000 years hunting for Fallen brothers, we can spend a few months waiting for our Codex to (hopefully) broach some issues.

[Raven Angel]

All in all as I see it this is the state of the Legion.

1. Our tanks now suck but thats ok cause everyones tanks are made of the same tissue paper so we arn't alone there.

2. DW just got alot nastier in CC and became a viable AA unit.

3. RW just got alot more durable against weapons fire which is good as they will now have to pickup the slack for GW's tanks when they get glanced to death by heavy bolter equivalents.

4. The old stand and shoot style for GW will likly be comming back

5. Dust off those Devistators and oil up the HBs, its time to shead tanks like they are going out of stile.

6. LR rush for DA might not be a bad idea but spring for the Crusaders. Once you are acrross the table and looking at back armor even a bolter can glance most tanks to death preaty quick now.

[Brother Immolator]

The powermaul basically can kill scouts without breaking a sweat , but will struggle to kill marines. Guess Chaplains will be out of fashion :lol:

 

Nice because all i wanted from my ubermenaching/named interrogator chaplain is to kill scouts...sigh...Because lets face it, the fallen have many scouts...Sigh again.

 

Vitriol run out.

 

So our bikes are nerfed. (We didn't get skilled rider.) Our chaplains suck and our main psyker appears to be able to give the enemy a mild migraine if he really concentrates.

 

Our Bikers are now Toughness 5, not 4(5) so, our characters are no longer suffering Instant Death when hit by Strength 8 attacks. Similarly, when a Ravenwing Command Squad has an Apothecary in it, we're now getting Feel No Pain against Power Fists, Thunder Hammers etc.

 

How is that a nerf?

From what I've read now some weapons will take out 2 or 3 wounds. so the fact that we get extra toughness is nullified.. but I may be wrong.

 

Ok I take your point there, but even if that is true, such weapons only take effect if we fail our Jink save, and then our Feel No Pain save (admittedly, only in the case of Command Squads).

 

I'm sorry, I just don't agree that we've suffered under the new rules for not gaining Skilled Rider when we have in fact benefitted. All these threads are these days are about how such-and-such a unit has lost out. When did we become a Legion of pessimists? We're not Wolves moaning about our axes, we're not Daemons moaning about Grey Knights until we get Epidemius-uberlist-so-now-we're-great-knew-you-wouldn't-let-us-down-GW-kiss-kiss. We're not Chaos moaning about Abaddon being AP3 and Khârn being I1 but oh look Ahriman is Mastery Level 3.

 

Our Ravenwing just became more survivable. Our Deathwing just gained the ability to shoot down Fliers, AND became so much more dangerous in Assault.

 

We're the First Legion and if we can spend 10,000 years hunting for Fallen brothers, we can spend a few months waiting for our Codex to (hopefully) broach some issues.

 

I always thought there is a bitterness of someshort in the legion, though i agree that we must move on. This is the third change that comes to our 4th ed codex so we must cope a little more till the new one.

 

5. Dust off those Devistators and oil up the HBs, its time to shead tanks like they are going out of stile.

 

:Moves head left and right disappointed:

 

It pains me to see brothers in arms have their devastators as self warmers. Mine have never stopped seeing action.

[Gillyfish]

Sigh. My rulebook hasn't arrived, so I can't contribute much at this point (Crewe seems to exist in a parallel dimension where it takes one extra day for the post to get to you).

 

From what I've seen across the various websites though, it doesn't sound like we're in too bad a state. The Ezekiel mastery is a little odd, but hopefully we will get a new codex soon and it will become a moot point.

[Reynolds]

All in all, from what I've gathered from the Rulebook and the FAQ, in sense of the "gut feeling":

- It would appear as if this was a "gum-fix" for the Dark Angels. Instead of bringing anything "new & drastic" to the table, as the 2011 FAQ did: This seems to be either very hastened, or they left it out on purpose to be as sketchy as it is now.

 

This suggest that either they were in a hurry to make the FAQ, or they have a new book in the works, and are saving up the "add-up points of the Codex" 'til that time. I simply cannot believe in a WD codex coming(as some have suggested), I would simply in the name of protest stop playing right there(Proud as we Lions are).

 

- So I will place my faint-hope in the Dark Angels Codex... For there are some good things, and some peculiar things in the new FAQ + Rulebook combo that leave me a little.. biased aftertaste, as if it was meant to be a temporal solution. For I simply cannot believe we are the Poster-Boys this time around, without a reason.

 

I'll see how GW plays this out...

[Raven Angel]

QUOTE (Raven Angel @ Jun 30 2012, 08:17 PM)

 

5. Dust off those Devistators and oil up the HBs, its time to shead tanks like they are going out of stile.

 

 

:Moves head left and right disappointed:

 

It pains me to see brothers in arms have their devastators as self warmers. Mine have never stopped seeing action.

 

In the past I have used split Tac squads to cover both the advancing assult and stationary fire troops spending the saved points on LRs, Preds, Dreds, and RZ in the force. With vehicles getting killed by the nerf stick their will need to be a reapotioning of expendatures.

[Deathwing70]

I'm assuming 5th edition is probably the first and only edition that made it impossible for vehicles to get destroyed by glancing hits? And this is causing the drama around the hull point system?

 

How about the fact that glancing hits no longer stun/shake or destroy weapons on the vehicle? Untill it loses all its hull points, it remains 100% operational unless a lucky penetrating hit scores the right number.

A predator sitting in a covered position should be able to throw out a lot of dakka dakka before it gets destroyed. Keep in mind that something that shoots at your vehicle and does not penetrate/destroy it is a nice target for the next turn.

 

Besides, techmarines can restore hull points, maybe theres a reason to use them now for their fluff intended purpose.

[Brother Immolator]

QUOTE (Raven Angel @ Jun 30 2012, 08:17 PM)

 

5. Dust off those Devistators and oil up the HBs, its time to shead tanks like they are going out of stile.

 

 

:Moves head left and right disappointed:

 

It pains me to see brothers in arms have their devastators as self warmers. Mine have never stopped seeing action.

 

In the past I have used split Tac squads to cover both the advancing assult and stationary fire troops spending the saved points on LRs, Preds, Dreds, and RZ in the force. With vehicles getting killed by the nerf stick their will need to be a reapotioning of expendatures.

 

Suit yourself,i like the sound(?) of 4 heavy bolters myself :D

 

This suggest that either they were in a hurry to make the FAQ, or they have a new book in the works, and are saving up the "add-up points of the Codex" 'til that time. I simply cannot believe in a WD codex coming(as some have suggested), I would simply in the name of protest stop playing right there(Proud as we Lions are).

 

Neither i believe a WD dex is coming but neither i believe 'that time' to quote you is near. I believe we have been given the faq to make do as stepping gap.

There are other dexes out there that must be addressed. Most ppl believe that August is the month for chaos and i am a bit inclined to agree.

 

However the ilustration of the DA both in the rulebook and the starter painting sets might be setting them as the poster boys so i guys poster boys without a dex is not good enough. Again on the other hand if i am not mistaken the general marine dex is almost the first to be released after each edition.

 

So many variables so little time :)

 

My personal guess would be:

 

1st and second next releases to be Chaos and SM in interchangeable positions and then DA with the possibility of templars in the mix for third.

 

To that you can say: Three powerarmored dexes in a row? Well powerarmor sells... Would you settle for tau as the Christmas codex? :P

[Reynolds]

True enough, Brother Immolator. The Chaos needs a new codex badly, as we don't have a proper antagonist(at least in my, and my playgroup's opinion). I'd just dare to see GW break the cycle they've had for the 40k. For Warhammer Fantasy, I've liked the fact that the release of Army Books hasn't been consistent, that there were "surprises" in the middle of the releases. However, there are too many variables to use the Emperor's Tarot effectively at this stage, so all we can do is wait..

 

The "that time", is just something I've pinned to the wall, which I pray would be near, for to be honest: I am highly skeptic, but I will hold out the beacon of optimism 'til the end of the year. If it won't be this year, it won't be any year, and I will concentrate my full attention to running Dark Heresy/Deathwatch/Roque Trader and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, instead of glancing at (possible) new minis we'd might be getting.

 

We can all hope, but I won't be lead on the path of disappointment.

[Isiah]

All in all, from what I've gathered from the Rulebook and the FAQ, in sense of the "gut feeling":

- It would appear as if this was a "gum-fix" for the Dark Angels. Instead of bringing anything "new & drastic" to the table, as the 2011 FAQ did: This seems to be either very hastened, or they left it out on purpose to be as sketchy as it is now.

 

Indeed, the FAQ is a fix to fit the DA into 6th edition and is not intended as anything to be anything "new & drastic".

 

Cheers

I

[The Shadow Guard]

This thread makes an interesting read for me as I am at present stuck in Paris for a conference... really.. it's all "work";) Having read only parts of the latest WD and the discussion here... I thought I'd share the hope I had/have for my beloved unforgiven. They are simply two boad hopes that:

 

1. The unforgiven codex shares and has equality with the Codex Spacemarines in terms of most units and wargear

2. Whatever special rules we are given along with the 40K6 special rules, that these allow us to play in the spirit of the legion..

 

I generally don't get upset about single units/characters being mucked about as long as the rules allow the DA player to choose a competetive army that also keeps with the background and spirit of the legion....

 

Sounds like that may have a better chance of happening with 40K6 and CDA 6Ed based on the discussions here on the web.. :) I guess I am more of a person who picks up a half full glass and walks through a half open door than one to come to grief over a half empty glass and a half closed door!! :D :D

 

SG

[Brother Immolator]

Well i am trying to state things more as they are rather than optimistic/pessimistic.

 

And why should be either good or bad when the new codex arrives?

 

If it is late we will have more time to hoard money and experience for 6th edition and the codex will be more optimized since the authors themselves will have solid feedback.

 

If it comes next month the summer will be full of excitement and those who wont hugle on the beaches will have beer and pizza parties in a basement (that isnt as bad as it sounds ;) ) full of plastic green men. Plus it will save the world from unleashing the our perfectly tanned and fit bodies :P.

[Ronin_eX]

I think one too many people got their hopes up that these FAQs would be new mini-dexes for the new edition. Sorry a lot of people were disappointed, but what we got is exactly what I expected. All of our units function almost exactly the same as before but translated to 6th Edition. The FAQs are published so that our armies will work in the new edition. They are not published to give our bikes Skilled Rider, to reduce the cost of the Green Marines or to fiddle with how our characters worked. Before these rules our Librarians could use one power a turn, in the new rules that means Psychic Mastery Level 1. The old codices were not built with things like this in mind. That is why Chief Librarians (previously PML4) are sitting at the 1-3 range currently.

 

GW created a system that no codex actually supports yet. 6th Edition is a radical change for the better. So lets not start fuming about it not fixing all the issues with our codex, the only thing that will fix our old codex is a new codex. The FAQ is a stopgap to make sure we can use our armies in 6th, it wasn't in there to rebalance the whole thing. That is what codices published in this edition will be for.

 

The last time GW published a real set of stop-gap army lists for 40k was back in 3rd. After that all edition switch FAQs have been relatively boring affairs. So just be glad this wasn't the 3rd Edition to 4th Edition FAQ which basically read "screw it, we don't know, just use the Space Marine codex until we figure something out..."

 

(Oddly I don't think we have ever had such a powerful list since :) )

 

By that metric it is impressive that such a large edition change has still left us with a codex to use. The game has only been out a few days and we haven't even seen a single codex published for it and it alone. I withhold full judgment until I see how the codices string together. These FAQs were never going to be documents that would balance the game once and for all.

[Dudds]

All in all as I see it this is the state of the Legion.

1. Our tanks now suck but thats ok cause everyones tanks are made of the same tissue paper so we arn't alone there.

2. DW just got alot nastier in CC and became a viable AA unit.

3. RW just got alot more durable against weapons fire which is good as they will now have to pickup the slack for GW's tanks when they get glanced to death by heavy bolter equivalents.

4. The old stand and shoot style for GW will likly be comming back

5. Dust off those Devistators and oil up the HBs, its time to shead tanks like they are going out of stile.

6. LR rush for DA might not be a bad idea but spring for the Crusaders. Once you are acrross the table and looking at back armor even a bolter can glance most tanks to death preaty quick now.

 

I don't see how our tanks are any worse than they were before? The only real difference is more of the AT weapons in the game are suitable for the role. A Heavy Bolter can glance a Rhino to death, but it could do that anyway. If anything Preds and Land Raiders are less likely to die to the first lucky Lascannon shot and both are now more mobile

 

Deathwing don't seem to be viable as AA options. Cyclone missile launchers don't have Flakk Missiles so DW are not better than anyone else at shooting Flyers. As you say though, they're more dangerous in CC, especially with an Apothecary and and RW with an Apothecary will still get FNP from Lascannon shots.

 

You'd be better off giving Devs missile launchers as they're more likely to glance tanks and they are a viable AA option.

 

Neither i believe a WD dex is coming but neither i believe 'that time' to quote you is near. I believe we have been given the faq to make do as stepping gap.

There are other dexes out there that must be addressed. Most ppl believe that August is the month for chaos and i am a bit inclined to agree.

 

I can't agree with a WD dex, they've only used those on armies that no longer fit with the current edition of the rules. We don't have that problem. I do agree that we won't see a Codex this side of Christmas though, maybe March 2013 but I'd be surprised if anything surfaces before. We'll no doubt be in the new box set, but as for poster boys, the smurfs still feature in all the BRB picture examples and there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming DA presence other than the cover so I expect Smurfs will remain the poster boys for the Imperium. Like you said though, so many variables that it's anyone's guess.

[Haranin]

I thought the Cyclone was listed as a two shot ML- so would not have flakk rockets?

[Bryan Blaire]

Deathwing don't seem to be viable as AA options. Cyclone missile launchers don't have Flakk Missiles so DW are not better than anyone else at shooting Flyers. As you say though, they're more dangerous in CC, especially with an Apothecary and and RW with an Apothecary will still get FNP from Lascannon shots.

Deathwing are viable as AA options. Our RAW for Cyclone missile launchers specifically states "Counts as Heavy 2 missile launcher" in the FAQ, not "Reference the Big Green Book as Cyclone missile launcher" (which they 100% could have written out if they had wanted to/thought to). Missile launchers have Flakk Missiles, therefore our Cyclone missile launchers do as well, because they count as missile launchers with the Heavy 2 profile for firing. Our Typhoons, however, do not, because they are given a specific weapon profile in the FAQ (yet another thing that could have been done with the Cyclone missile launcher, but wasn't).

 

People are going to have to decide whether they want to play RAW or RAI, and RAI is completely up for debate/discussion before a game... RAI for me, Codex: Space Marines aren't getting a freakin' Storm Raven, etc.

 

Edited for clearer wording

[Droma]

Deathwing are viable as AA options. Our RAW for Cyclone missile launchers specifically states "Counts as Heavy 2 missile launcher" in the FAQ, not "Reference the Big Green Book as Cyclone missile launcher" (which they 100% could have written out if they had wanted to/thought to). Missile launchers have Flakk Missiles, therefore our Cyclone missile launchers do as well, because they count as missile launchers with the Heavy 2 profile for firing. Our Typhoons, however, do not, because they are given a specific weapon profile in the FAQ (yet another thing that could have been done with the Cyclone missile launcher, but wasn't).

 

People are going to have to decide whether they want to play RAW or RAI, and RAI is completely up for debate/discussion before a game... RAI for me, Codex: Space Marines aren't getting a freakin' Storm Raven, etc.

 

Edited for clearer wording

 

Read the book again. Missile launchers do not come with flakk missiles automatically. Text trumps table in this instance.

 

pg57 "All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles."

[Bryan Blaire]

Ah, very nice find Droma, damn, you're right. I was just referencing the table in the back, honestly, I haven't done a detailed read-through of the book yet, not to mention, it's still a lot of info to process even if you do. Sadly then, as we don't have this upgrade referenced, we can't use Flakk missiles. Ah well, too bad. Back to the drawing board on that one.

 

Edit: Also, dammit. ;)

[Candleshoes]

I'm a big fan of the new rapid fire rules, where a stationary marine can rapid fire at their full weapon range.

 

This makes me very happy, and really ups the threat level of our troops.

 

This combined with the fact we can now put 2 combat squads into the same transport.

[Pyro X]

here is what I am going to do till they give us more info.

 

take a librarian until we get more info. use Divination Psychic. you get 2 spells ( 1 warp charge per turn I know) you roll 2 dice and reroll a double then can drop 1 for the

primaris power. The Primaris power is retarded. lets say they have a flyier. We need 6s to hit and your playing deathwing or ravenwing and are running 3 to 6 land speeder Typhoons.

The primaris power lets you reroll your to hit right? so thats 2 missles and 1 melta at that 11-12 armored thing with 2-3 hull points. you just went from 1 and 6 to 1 and 3 ruffly. just my

2 cents.

[Pyro X]

I'm a big fan of the new rapid fire rules, where a stationary marine can rapid fire at their full weapon range.

 

This makes me very happy, and really ups the threat level of our troops.

 

I didn't see this stuff, I did see a spot where it says rapid fire weapons can't assault and that " a model using a rapid fire weapon can shoot once a maximum range.

Alternatively, if the target is at within half maximum range, it can fire twice." granted you can rapid fire at 1/2 range and assault of your relentless (ravenwing).

 

so rapid fire at 1/2 range, charge into melee with hammer of wrath, then go into normal combat.

 

:edit, changed deathwing to ravenwing

[Ajax Tlamunus]

I didn't see this stuff, I did see a spot where it says rapid fire weapons can't assault and that " a model using a rapid fire weapon can shoot once a maximum range.

Alternatively, if the target is at within half maximum range, it can fire twice." granted you can rapid fire at 1/2 range and assault of your relentless (deathwing).

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, new book and all that, but Deathwing don't have any rapid fire category weapons, do they? Its all Assault, Heavy, or melee...

[Pyro X]

no, they don't have rapid fire. what 2 different points, I typed in deathwing and meant to type in ravenwing. sorry lol

[Diavlo]

No one had answer to my question, so I'll ask it in a different way.

 

What with our venerable dreadnought?

FAQ says that we should look at rulebook reference pages for up to date units types and hull points.

So when we do that there are no vehicles in Dark Angels section, but there are our vehicles in the space marine section.

So our venerable is better now or I'm missing something.

Maybe I over interpreted that and it just means that we should look only at the last two columns with HP and unit Type?