Sooo... Daemon 'Weapons', what are they?

[totgeboren]

Nope. A Daemon Prince always count as being armed with just a single close combat weapon, and can't be given a Daemon Weapon either.

[*Furyou Miko]

Used to be able to take them, and the model was made for the old rules. I call BS.

[Sception]

We're... what? A month out from a new codex? Two at worst? Doesn't seem worth getting up in arms over at the moment.

[UglyWretch]

Are we forgetting that Abaddon has a Power Fist and a Daemon Weapon? And that they work together? The way I see it is that as he gets double strength from the fist (ap2), +D6 attacks from Daemon weapon and still goes at normal I6. Unless GW have FAQ'd the specific rules on Abaddon's profile to nerf the bee-jesus out of him. :)

[TheDarkApostle]

He doesn't have a Power Fist. He has a Lightning Claw with a combi-bolter tacked ontop. And a fancy Sword.

 

Who together counts as a special Daemon Weapon that give '+D6 Attacks, doubles his Strength and allows him to re-roll any failed rolls to wound in CC'.

 

Which alas is only AP3 until it is either FAQ'd (not likely since it was not included in this FAQ), or it get's a new profile in a new 'dex (more likely).

 

TDA

[*Furyou Miko]

... except that you can only use the special rules from ONE of your weapons. So either he's AP3, rerolls to hit and wound, OR he's +D6 attacks and double strength at AP3.

[TheDarkApostle]

... except

 

The effect of these two powerful artefacts means that Abaddon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Stren gth 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1, and he may re-roll any failed roll to wound in close combat.

*Abbadon has +D6 Attacks from his Daemon Weapon

 

It's only one weapon so nothing to chose between.

 

TDA

[Captain Idaho]

People aren't reading the rules properly and taking the word "unique" out of context and ignoring the following rule;

 

If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon with no further special rules, look at the model..to see what it has

 

Daemon weapons and Abaddon CLEARLY are weapons with further special rules.

[*Furyou Miko]

Yes, but Idaho, Abaddon still has a sword and a lightning claw, and the unusual weapons clause still gives both those weapons AP3 if none is specified... and Kharne and T-bone were FAQd to have power axes. So yeah, generic daemon weapons are AP3, +d6 attacks, whatever the Mark effect is.

[TheDarkApostle]

No, Abbadon may be modelled with several weapons but according to the rules he still only have a Special Daemon Weapon and a combi-bolter.

 

Special Daemon Weapon

 

Combi-bolter

 

That's all he has rulewise.

 

TDA

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah, they function together as a single weapon in CC which falls under the unique power weapon rules.

[Azekai]

Does the daemon prince not have a daemon weapon that is a sword?

Yes and no. They can have axes too, but they are purely cosmetic (until FAQ'd into uslessness like Khârn). ^_^

[HJL]

Does the daemon prince not have a daemon weapon that is a sword?

Yes and no. They can have axes too, but they are purely cosmetic (until FAQ'd into uslessness like Khârn). ^_^

 

wont matter if they do, monsterous creatures can still strike at I with weapons that strike at I1

[UglyWretch]

Well, until they fix Abaddon he's never getting used again. The best HQ in our 'Dex, now can't even worry a Terminator. Or a MegaNob. But they've probably got Fists or Klaws to batter him. What a joke.

 

I don't know which HQ we've got that're worth using now. Daemon Princes? With wings?

[*Furyou Miko]

Tzeentch Sorcerers with Telepathy.

[Sception]

Daemon princes with wings - particularly tzeentch ones, tzeentch sorcerers w/ telepathy, Typhus (murders terminators, shrugs off powerfists), Khârn (murders terminators, just keep him out of challenges), princes or sorcerers with lash of submission, ICs with mark of nurgle or bike or both to let them strike with AP2 weapons without worrying over much if they get caught in challenges with fists.

 

Any HQ with an AP2 melee weapon, so long as you have a champ around to accept challenges. If the HQ has terminator armor, then they can accept challenges from AP3 enemy characters and let a lightning claw champ or the like deal with enemy fist champs. If You avoid meganob squads and terminators, then AP3 HQs are still pretty potent... but then again you shouldn't need an IC to beat up a tac squad, so... yeah.

 

Basically, there seems to be a choice between AP2 and striking at init in this edition, unless you're a monstrous creature or a walker. I wouldn't expect that to change much this edition, at least not right away. Independent characters are more or less untargetable as long as they have a unit to look out for them and a champion to accept challenges for them, so I'm thinking ICs with large numbers of Init one, high strength, AP2 attacks leading units with normal Init AP3 champions (perhaps multiples of them, if chosen or terminators are points efficient and keep their multi-champ options in the new book) will likely be the way to go.