Brother Ambroz Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What first got me into 40k was the ability to create a badass Lord that could take out a whole squad by himself. Since then (aka the gav dex) I've made counts-as models which isn't so bad. I just don't like the fact that DPs are the only competitive thing which now with 6ed out seems like its changed. Sorcerors are now viable although my counts as characters aren't as viable as they used to be. Custom lords are still meh though, which is where I feel they need to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Regarding the issue with challenged Demon Prince's, remember that you're going to crunch his Exarch then the entire squad will need to make a LD7 test or run away. It's a bit slower but they'll get stomped eventually, there's even a reasonable chance you might even sweep them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Oh my, how could people have missed the benefit of Challenge rules for solo models! You charge in and are challenged to prevent you munching through the squad and save it for a turn. Sure that Exarch dies and the squad makes it's morale check and you are stuck for another player turn, but that means you won't get shot in the following turn! That's an awesome benefit and very frustrating for an opponent since you just repeat the attack in your following turn! It's certainly a benefit! The biggest losers because of Challenge rules are Imperial Guard and Orks, who will strike last and potentially lose their important leadership boosting models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You charge in and are challenged to prevent you munching through the squad and save it for a turn. Sure that Exarch dies and the squad makes it's morale check and you are stuck for another player turn, but that means you won't get shot in the following turn! That's an awesome benefit and very frustrating for an opponent since you just repeat the attack in your following turn! It's certainly a benefit! The biggest losers because of Challenge rules are Imperial Guard and Orks, who will strike last and potentially lose their important leadership boosting models. This. Those stupid commissars hiding in the massive blob squads are going to die, painfully. Thing is, if there are multiple characters in a squad (like with IG blob platoons) it could potentially result in a multi-round mire of challenges, as the surviving commissars continue to boost morale and you have to fight every single one and then possibly the sergeants after that. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You charge in and are challenged to prevent you munching through the squad and save it for a turn. Sure that Exarch dies and the squad makes it's morale check and you are stuck for another player turn, but that means you won't get shot in the following turn! That's an awesome benefit and very frustrating for an opponent since you just repeat the attack in your following turn! It's certainly a benefit! The biggest losers because of Challenge rules are Imperial Guard and Orks, who will strike last and potentially lose their important leadership boosting models. This. Those stupid commissars hiding in the massive blob squads are going to die, painfully. Thing is, if there are multiple characters in a squad (like with IG blob platoons) it could potentially result in a multi-round mire of challenges, as the surviving commissars continue to boost morale and you have to fight every single one and then possibly the sergeants after that. Ugh. On the flip side, if you manage to catch a blob like that and somehow manages to continually tie them up in challenges you lock in the entire blob in place instead of having it shooting at stuff/capturing objectives. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShinKosh Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What first got me into 40k was the ability to create a badass Lord that could take out a whole squad by himself. Since then (aka the gav dex) I've made counts-as models which isn't so bad. I just don't like the fact that DPs are the only competitive thing which now with 6ed out seems like its changed. Sorcerors are now viable although my counts as characters aren't as viable as they used to be. Custom lords are still meh though, which is where I feel they need to improve. I have to agree with my fellow Night Lord here, the kneejerk reation to any Chaos Marine force that isnt being led by a DP is a waste pains me. Hopefully in the new 'Dex there will be some more options for Lords that let them become both fun and viable. All we can do is now wait and see what sort of new toys (if any!) we get. I really dont want to have a DP leading my company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 What first got me into 40k was the ability to create a badass Lord that could take out a whole squad by himself. Since then (aka the gav dex) I've made counts-as models which isn't so bad. I just don't like the fact that DPs are the only competitive thing which now with 6ed out seems like its changed. Sorcerors are now viable although my counts as characters aren't as viable as they used to be. Custom lords are still meh though, which is where I feel they need to improve. I have to agree with my fellow Night Lord here, the kneejerk reation to any Chaos Marine force that isnt being led by a DP is a waste pains me. Hopefully in the new 'Dex there will be some more options for Lords that let them become both fun and viable. All we can do is now wait and see what sort of new toys (if any!) we get. I really dont want to have a DP leading my company. Hell, me either. And I hope we get the lieutenants back. They were perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (Furyou Miko @ Jul 5 2012, 11:04 PM) >> Chaos Marine daemon princes can't fly, only Chaos Daemon daemon princes can fly. FAQ makes CSM WDPs "Jump Monstrous Infantry", but CD WDPs "Flying Monstrous Infantry". Go figure. All I have to say is... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 I hope we'd get Legion specific rules. I'd love my Night Lords to have the USR Fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 In the DA painting challenge thread the issue of Daemonic Possession pops up. The Daemon USR gives you 5+ Invuln and the Fear USR, right? The Grey Knight FAQ says that daemonically possessed vehicles count as daemons. But the new CSM only adds the Daemon USR to the Greater and Lesser Summoned Daemons. But what about daemonically possessed vehicles? They get the penalties of being daemons when GK target them, and they are daemons. So do they get the Daemon USR? This is important for Defilers and probably Land Raiders, especially given the increased chances to glance things to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 In the DA painting challenge thread the issue of Daemonic Possession pops up. The Daemon USR gives you 5+ Invuln and the Fear USR, right? The Grey Knight FAQ says that daemonically possessed vehicles count as daemons. But the new CSM only adds the Daemon USR to the Greater and Lesser Summoned Daemons. But what about daemonically possessed vehicles? They get the penalties of being daemons when GK target them, and they are daemons. So do they get the Daemon USR? This is important for Defilers and probably Land Raiders, especially given the increased chances to glance things to death. To me, they are. I say that because of the FW update. Daemonic possession = Daemon USR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 not yet they arent, but i think its pretty clear where the rules are heading with the new codex :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 In the DA painting challenge thread the issue of Daemonic Possession pops up. The Daemon USR gives you 5+ Invuln and the Fear USR, right? The Grey Knight FAQ says that daemonically possessed vehicles count as daemons. But the new CSM only adds the Daemon USR to the Greater and Lesser Summoned Daemons. But what about daemonically possessed vehicles? They get the penalties of being daemons when GK target them, and they are daemons. So do they get the Daemon USR? This is important for Defilers and probably Land Raiders, especially given the increased chances to glance things to death. I just want some consistency.... Ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 You charge in and are challenged to prevent you munching through the squad and save it for a turn. Sure that Exarch dies and the squad makes it's morale check and you are stuck for another player turn, but that means you won't get shot in the following turn! That's an awesome benefit and very frustrating for an opponent since you just repeat the attack in your following turn! It's certainly a benefit! The biggest losers because of Challenge rules are Imperial Guard and Orks, who will strike last and potentially lose their important leadership boosting models. This. Those stupid commissars hiding in the massive blob squads are going to die, painfully. Thing is, if there are multiple characters in a squad (like with IG blob platoons) it could potentially result in a multi-round mire of challenges, as the surviving commissars continue to boost morale and you have to fight every single one and then possibly the sergeants after that. Ugh. What you also have to consider is that if you're sending a lone model (like a Daemon Prince) into challenge against this unit, the enemy Character gets a re-roll for every 5 models in his unit. If you fluff your dice rolls and somehow don't kill that Power Weapon (possibly an axe under the new rules) wielding Commissar/Sergeant, you might well see your precious Daemon Prince getting smashed into the ground by one of those 'stupid Commissars'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (Furyou Miko @ Jul 5 2012, 11:04 PM) >> Chaos Marine daemon princes can't fly, only Chaos Daemon daemon princes can fly. FAQ makes CSM WDPs "Jump Monstrous Infantry", but CD WDPs "Flying Monstrous Infantry". Go figure. All I have to say is... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Well, in the battle report in WD 391 it states on pg 61 that "My final choise for primary detachment was a winged Daemon Prince of Tzeenetch. As a Flying Monstrous Creature, he can swoop 24"." The primary detachement was CSM and the secondary detachement was DC. And the same creature makes a Vector Strike early in the game. And the VS can only be made by Swooping models (pg. 43 in the rulebook). So as I see it a CSM: DP is a flying monstrous creature, since i take it that the dudes doing the Battle Reports know the rules and that GW would NEVER print anything that is not crystal clear. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 WD battle reports are not really a good source of rules though, they constantly get things wrong(like in this example for instance, or the psychic powers as well in that fight)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 WD battle reports are not really a good source of rules though, they constantly get things wrong(like in this example for instance, or the psychic powers as well in that fight)... Maybe so, but if they can get it wrong so can I. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 My only hope from this FAQ and how it hurt Khârn and Typhus and Abbadon (thankfully none of which are characters I use in my Chaos army), is that a new codex is coming and these issues will be fixed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 If anything Typhus was buffed! Khârn had a minor nerf, but not as much as people think, and Abby was really nerfed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 If anything Typhus was buffed! Khârn had a minor nerf, but not as much as people think, and Abby was really nerfed... Agreed on Typhus & Abaddon. But Khârn is now as bad as Lucius/Fabulous Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llagos_Tyrant Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I've wondered about using the Codex:Space Marines book for my Iron Warriors (who, by fluff, are a lot more organized, disciplined and against chaos than normal renegades) and if we get another poor codex ... well I might consider it again. Btw, what sort of heresy is that to use traitor marines that follow the loyalist book? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Dave Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (Furyou Miko @ Jul 5 2012, 11:04 PM) >> Chaos Marine daemon princes can't fly, only Chaos Daemon daemon princes can fly. FAQ makes CSM WDPs "Jump Monstrous Infantry", but CD WDPs "Flying Monstrous Infantry". Go figure. All I have to say is... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Well, in the battle report in WD 391 it states on pg 61 that "My final choise for primary detachment was a winged Daemon Prince of Tzeenetch. As a Flying Monstrous Creature, he can swoop 24"." The primary detachement was CSM and the secondary detachement was DC. And the same creature makes a Vector Strike early in the game. And the VS can only be made by Swooping models (pg. 43 in the rulebook). So as I see it a CSM: DP is a flying monstrous creature, since i take it that the dudes doing the Battle Reports know the rules and that GW would NEVER print anything that is not crystal clear. ;-) I'm looking at this as an oversight on GW's part. Given our wings can be added to units that aren't just MCs, I think they clarified the wings listing, but forgot to mention DPs. Since the Flying Monstrous Creatures section in the BRB just defines them as 'winged', I can't see why our wings would be any different. Keep in mind our Terminators weren't given real Relentless until now, when other Termies across the board had it after 5th, and our Dozer Blades weren't the same as our loyalist counterparts'. GW tends to forget to update Chaos correctly when they do it everywhere else (well, Chaos and some of the fringe SM chapters). I fully intend to play my DPs with wings as Flying Monstrous Creatures, and I don't think anyone is going to take issue with it. This will likely be cleared up in a couple months with our new codex anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Agreed on Typhus & Abaddon. But Khârn is now as bad as Lucius/Fabulous Bill. Bluh? Really? As an independent character Khârn is basically untargetable, at least as long as you have a champion around to eat challenges. So the enemy gets some attacks in before he brutalizes them even harder than before. Sure, it's a debuff, but not that big of one, and with precision strikes those attacks may count for even more than before. And you think Khârn is more nerfed then AP3 Abby? Because I really need a 250 point special character to clear out tactical squads. Seriously, Khârn is fine, Typhus is awesome, and Abby's not worth bothering with until the new book hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 And you think Khârn is more nerfed then AP3 Abby? Because I really need a 250 point special character to clear out tactical squads. This made me chuckle :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Agreed on Typhus & Abaddon. But Khârn is now as bad as Lucius/Fabulous Bill. Bluh? Really? As an independent character Khârn is basically untargetable, at least as long as you have a champion around to eat challenges. So the enemy gets some attacks in before he brutalizes them even harder than before. Sure, it's a debuff, but not that big of one, and with precision strikes those attacks may count for even more than before. And you think Khârn is more nerfed then AP3 Abby? Because I really need a 250 point special character to clear out tactical squads. Seriously, Khârn is fine, Typhus is awesome, and Abby's not worth bothering with until the new book hits. Never said that Abaddon was better than Khârn :P. When I said that Khârn is as bad as Lucius and Bile, Abaddon is even worst than them, clearly. But I don't see why I'd take Khârn in my list. I don't understand what he now gives to a Chaos army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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