mjc Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Is it true that our Daemon Hammers are AP3 now? Based on FAQ & rulebook it looks like it. FAQ:Page 54 – Nemesis Force Weapons, Force Weapons. Change the first sentence to read “Unless otherwise stated, all Nemesis weapons are Unusual Force Weapons, as detailed in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.” Rulebook says: "If a force weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP3" PLEASE tell me it's not so.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Unless otherwise stated What weapon does the Codex state a NDH uses the rules for? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 NDHs are unusual force weapons, therefore the follow the rules in the codex. The codex rule is that they are thunder hammers with daemon bane. Ergo they are AP2, Unweidly, Concussive, Daemon Bane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 I agree that it has the function of a Thunderhammer but it falls under "unusual force weapon" because of the daemonbane rule. Thus I can see the folks at my group saying it is AP 3 but functions as a Thunderhammer. GW needs to be clear with these FAQs! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I agree that it has the function of a Thunderhammer but it falls under "unusual force weapon" because of the daemonbane rule. Thus I can see the folks at my group saying it is AP 3 but functions as a Thunderhammer. GW needs to be clear with these FAQs! If folk in your gaming group try to say daemon hammers are AP3 the solution isn't clearer rules from GW, it's finding a new gaming group ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 NDHs are unusual force weapons, therefore the follow the rules in the codex. The codex rule is that they are thunder hammers with daemon bane. Ergo they are AP2, Unweidly, Concussive, Daemon Bane. If this is how it is worded in the codex, that seems pretty definitive to me. AP2 (which is logically the right anwer anyway) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Codex trump rulebook, codex says they're thunder hammers and thus AP2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Perfect, AP 2 it is! :lol: Thanks everyone for the input. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3102839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlk Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So if NDHs are actually AP2 since they follow the ruling for thunder hammers in the rulebook... does it mean NFHalberds are now I1 because the rulebook clearly says they count as power axes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 No, because it states that if the model has any special rule, the weapon counts as an 'Usual Force Weapon'. The GK FAQ even goes as far as saying all the Nemesis Force Weapons fall in this category. Then, you have an AP3 force weapon, unless the weapon's entry states otherwise (such as the Daemon Hammer stating it follows the rules of a Thunderhammer). So the Halberd is S as User, AP3, Melee, Two-handed, Force which grants +2I and Daemonbane. The Daemon hammer is Sx2, AP2, Melee, Concussive, Unwieldy, Specialist Weapon, Force with Daemonbane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlk Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So even though the NDH has the Daemonbane special rule, it doesn't count as an unusual force weapon? How come? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So even though the NDH has the Daemonbane special rule, it doesn't count as an unusual force weapon? How come? Because the codex says it's a Thunderhammer and codex always beats core rulebook Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 It does count as an unusual force weapon. And unusual force weapons are AP3 unless the weapon entry states otherwise. The Daemon hammer's entry states otherwise. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So even though the NDH has the Daemonbane special rule, it doesn't count as an unusual force weapon? How come? It is an unusual Force Weapon, but it's entry SPECIFICALLY STATES that it uses the rules for Thunder Hammers. It simply has the Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon rules too. Vlk, are you by any chance a non-Grey Knight player? Or perhaps a player who dislikes Grey Knights? Just asking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlk Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So even though the NDH has the Daemonbane special rule, it doesn't count as an unusual force weapon? How come? It is an unusual Force Weapon, but it's entry SPECIFICALLY STATES that it uses the rules for Thunder Hammers. It simply has the Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon rules too. Vlk, are you by any chance a non-Grey Knight player? Or perhaps a player who dislikes Grey Knights? Just asking. How did you know :) I don't play GKs and I don't even like them but this has nothing to do with it. I just want to know what I'm going against and some parts of the new rule seem quite confusing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So even though the NDH has the Daemonbane special rule, it doesn't count as an unusual force weapon? How come? It is an unusual Force Weapon, but it's entry SPECIFICALLY STATES that it uses the rules for Thunder Hammers. It simply has the Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon rules too. Vlk, are you by any chance a non-Grey Knight player? Or perhaps a player who dislikes Grey Knights? Just asking. How did you know :) I don't play GKs and I don't even like them but this has nothing to do with it. I just want to know what I'm going against and some parts of the new rule seem quite confusing. I fail to see the confusion, the rules arevery clear unless you are trying to confuse them. Daemon Hammers are unusual weapons as descibed in the rules but follow Thunder Hammer rules as per the description. At no point does any rule contradict Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So even though the NDH has the Daemonbane special rule, it doesn't count as an unusual force weapon? How come? It is an unusual Force Weapon, but it's entry SPECIFICALLY STATES that it uses the rules for Thunder Hammers. It simply has the Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon rules too. Vlk, are you by any chance a non-Grey Knight player? Or perhaps a player who dislikes Grey Knights? Just asking. How did you know :) I don't play GKs and I don't even like them but this has nothing to do with it. I just want to know what I'm going against and some parts of the new rule seem quite confusing. Lol, fair enough mate. You needn't worry too much about the rules confusion; we'll teach you all you need to know on the battlefield ;) See you out there and good hunting mate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, I've read claims of AP 3 NFH here and there. I wouldn't mind, really. In exchange, I'd claim that it then strikes at Ini 4 (since it doesn't follow TH rules) B) Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, I've read claims of AP 3 NFH here and there. I wouldn't mind, really. In exchange, I'd claim that it then strikes at Ini 4 (since it doesn't follow TH rules) B) Phil lol ;) I4, S10 (after some Hammerhand), why, we're Blood Angels now. I concur; the codex says it's a thunder hammer with some additions, so that's what it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255004-nemesis-daemon-hammers-are-ap3/#findComment-3103465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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