So I modelled my Flesh Tearers army up with all axes....

[SamaNagol]

lol I dunno what to make of it all.

 

On one hand I might be great in the meta when people take loads of Terminators and the like... on the other... I1 and no I5 from Priests...

 

On models with FC they are like cheap Fists though. Kinda. That's what I'm telling myself!

[Aquamarine_28]

I'm having the exact same problem. Decided that I'm just going to switch them over to power fists and be done with it. No way am I going to take the disadvantage of having a fist without the advantage of having one, even if it costs less. The bonus attack and +1S isn't worth the trade off imo.

[SamaNagol]

Well, the Fist is obviously better for Armour Pen and for ID.... but against infantry models the Axe is quite useful.

 

Put the Axe towards the back, get the +1 A and hopefully the bonus for the charge and you are causing more wounds against MEQ than a Fist for 10pts less.

 

I'm trying to find ways to make them work rather than disregard them immediately

[Mezkh]

Well, on models with FC fighting T4 it's a powerfist with a +1A and a 10 point discount.

 

That's not nothing.

As long as you've got an answer to challenges, you're fine.

 

Tell me this, did you hide your Sang Priests in combats last edition?

If you did, give them a Lighting Claw or Power Weapon, and you'll be sitting pretty.

 

I think two Axes for +5 points on a Sarge and a Priest each is better than the old 5th ed naked priest and PF sarge this edition, than that was in that edition.

 

Remember, you can Krak Grenade vehicles on a 3+ No matter how fast they moved.

[JamesI]

I wouldn't drop all axes. I think a few are good. I intend to keep a few, but I will likely go mostly swords.

[Arkangilos]

Look, you have a choice:

Use the axe, or use the pistol which counts as a standard CCW. Therefore, you can choose to hit hard at low initiative, or hit *normal* at normal initiative. It gives you flexibility.

 

 

Think of it like this, all of your guys are armed with Power Axes, and that is good for termies, AND they are armed with a weapon that has the same rules as a chain sword. You STILL get the +1 for having an extra weapon.

 

You aren't missing anything.

[SamaNagol]

Remember, you can Krak Grenade vehicles on a 3+ No matter how fast they moved.

 

This is HUGE

[Mezkh]

If your Sarge is sitting at the back as he should be and you have another character in your unit (we're BA, why wouldn't you?) then Axe over Powersword is probably the superior choice against most permutations.

 

The +1 Str in combination with +1A and AP2 is good.

Sure you can pay 10 more points and drop and attack, but that's one less dice you have to roll that precision strike '6' on to allocate that high strength AP2 wound.

[Atlantic]

You could go the crafty route and try to turn some of those axes into hammers. Power Mauls look pretty good.

[SamaNagol]

You just reminded me my fancy Lemartes Counts As conversion has an Axe too.... *sigh*

[Malus the Destroyer]

My power weapon DC squad has 3 power axes, a power sword, and Thunder hammer. Cause I couldn't get anymore power axes for my Flesh Tearers. I feel your pain.

[Ushtarador]

We at our LGS seriously don't give a B) about those new rulings.. if our marines have axes on them, we surely won't tear them off just to make them playable, "counts as" all the way! ^^

[AzkaellonIsTheSanguinor]

Actually, until the new codex or faq, they are all power weapons in the points part of the book. So I guess no axes for us. You wouldn't give your model extra points that aren't in the codex

[JamesI]

Actually, until the new codex or faq, they are all power weapons in the points part of the book. So I guess no axes for us. You wouldn't give your model extra points that aren't in the codex

Our sergeants, vanguard, DC, HG can buy power weapons. By the rulebook, all power weapons (that lack other special rules such as Astorath) go to the chart. So if its an axe, its a power axe.

 

Only if the unit specifically says power sword can you not pick when you models (such as a Sanguinary Priest in terminator armor must take a power sword)

[sdavid86]

It should also be noted that, in the FAQ, the Crozius Arcanum that all Chaplains and Reclusiarchs come with is specifically a Power Maul. Cannot change it unless you buy a power fist. Since it's a listed, named piece of wargear modeling it won't change anything, correct?

 

Also, it is mentioned in the new rulebooks under Unusual Weapons that any named weapon is an AP 3 weapon, plus whatever rules are stated in its specific entry. So weapons like Astorath's Executioner's Axe do not count as power axes?

[SamaNagol]

Astorath's is AP3 and strikes at Initiative.

 

And yeh, I suppose you could model a Counts As SC as anything as there is no way the rules can change even if it is a Sword, Axe, Maul, Spear or Staff.

 

I will convert mine to have a Maul though. Saves arguments.

[sdavid86]

In regards to power weapons and their variants, I believe any model with a "power weapon" chooses whether it's a sword, axe or maul by modeling it as such (unless their wargear specifically states otherwise). That's why the FAQ says that all references to "power swords" are changed to "power weapons." I believe their intention is that all the varieties of Power weapon, as to say axes, swords, etc, all cost the same point wise. Did you buy a power weapon for your assault marine sergeant? Is it shaped like an axe? Then it's a Power Axe. The only weapon entry I've seen that specifies the type of power weapon a model is holding is the Crozius Arcanum (see my post above).

[Evicerator]

Man I feel your pain...

 

I went with an almost all Axe army simply because I thought they looked more fitting for BA. This is such a kick in the face having to remodel everything to swords while only keeping a few axes...

[Unbreakable]

I did the same with my flesh tearers. Every power weapon I have is an axe, my death company have chain axes but thankfully I wont have to change them. Think i'll play a couple of games before I go about changing any axes to swords.

[SamaNagol]

Axes just looked better right?

 

EEEEVERYTHING in my army has Axes. Sanguinary Guard all have Axes too! lol

[JamesI]

Axes just looked better right?

 

EEEEVERYTHING in my army has Axes. Sanguinary Guard all have Axes too! lol

I'm pretty sure the Glaive Encarmine is a special power weapon and just AP3. The rulebook says you only look at the type if it has no special rules. Glaive have 2 special rules (master crafted and two handed) Wheter it is modeled as an axe or not, its just AP3.

[SamaNagol]

That's as unclear as the Dante issue, because they do not have 'Unique rules'. They have USRs.

 

Needs FAQing to be certain imo.

[JamesI]

That's as unclear as the Dante issue, because they do not have 'Unique rules'. They have USRs.

 

Needs FAQing to be certain imo.

Actually it really doesn't (neither does Dante in my opinion)

 

To quote

 

Types of Power Weapons

If a model's wargera says its has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to determine the type

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Master Crafted is on page 39, in the Special Rules section. Glaive have special rules. They are AP3.

 

To quote someone who said it better than I in the Chaos thread

So since all daemon weapons are classified by whatever they look like, can we make a bloodfeeder chainfist?

That's not how it works.

 

Rule Book 61:

"Power Weapons

If a models wargear says it has a power weapon with no further special rules, look at the model..to see what it has"

 

Rule Book 61:

"Unique Power Weapons:

If a weapon has it's own unique close combat rules treat it as an AP3 weapon with the additional rules.."

 

A Daemon Weapon has the unique close combat rules of +D6 Attacks and the additional Mark bonus.

 

Thus it's a Unique Power Weapon and does not get any possible bonus for being a sword, mace, spear or axe. Or anything else for that matter.

 

TDA

 

You have two options that you HAVE to take one (and ONLY one of):

 

Option A:

Rule Book 61:

"Power Weapons

If a models wargear says it has a power weapon with no further special rules, look at the model..to see what it has"

 

Option B:

Rule Book 61:

"Unique Power Weapons:

If a weapon has it's own unique close combat rules treat it as an AP3 weapon with the additional rules.."

 

If it's not option A (any rules other than 'power weapon'), then it MUST be B. It's not how we define 'unique', it's how you define 'no further special rules'.

There's a whole section of special rules, plus a host in each codex to boot. If it has ANY of those, it CANNOT be option A.

[Evicerator]

That's as unclear as the Dante issue, because they do not have 'Unique rules'. They have USRs.

 

Needs FAQing to be certain imo.

Actually it really doesn't (neither does Dante in my opinion)

 

To quote

 

Types of Power Weapons

If a model's wargera says its has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to determine the type

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Master Crafted is on page 39, in the Special Rules section. Glaive have special rules. They are AP3.

 

You, sir, just made my day. I interpreted the rules to mean my Sanguinary Guard were all CC dullards striking at I1. I LOVE Axe Glaives and was hating having to change them to be somewhat competitive with them.

[JamesI]

Now personally, I hope GW FAQs it because the issue is contentious. But I think the posts I quoted above solve the issue in my opinion.

 

The only way for a weapon to be considered both a power axe, maul, spear and have special rules is for the codex to explicitly say so (or a FAQ as was done for Lemartes)