Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 There is a lot of other things to digest with 6th edition now out, so I thought I'd just shoot for one of the more interesting and narrow questions; Are the new psychic powers worth it? To clarify, there are only three models that benefit from the new Psychic tables that we have available. They are Librarians, Coteaz and Inquisitors who take the psychic upgrade. To be clear, you can't mix the new powers and our codex powers, its a straight swap. Note that 'Hammerhand' is still kept in all cases. FAQ says nothing about 'Psychic Communion' on normal Inquisitors, so you'll have to assume its a straight trade. Librarian: Honestly, his codex powers are better. 'Might' is better than even the inaccessible Biomancy powers, and 'Shrouding'/'Sanctuary' are amazing. Coteaz: He is another rare source of 'Sanctuary', but 'Dark Excommunication' is terrible and he keeps 'Hammerhand' anyway. I'd highly recommend swapping, you keep his best power still available and he's rarely using 'Sanctuary' (and you should have a Librarian with it already in your army) Inquisitor: Mastery Level 1 means unless you're at 2k and doing a Secondary detachment (they're optional BTW, for those worried about 2k+ games, you can still just use one Force Org chart if you wish), you should take Coteaz first. That said, if you do take a psyker Inquisitor, swapping out for the new tables is worth considering. So, lets ignore the Librarian (as he's identical to Coteaz for power generation and casting, except for the now useless psychic hood), and focus on Coteaz. Mastery Level 2 means two powers, or one Warp Charge 2 power Divination: Primaris: For those familiar with Fantasy, this is the signature spell. Basically, you roll for the other 6 on the table each time per Mastery level (again, just like Fantasy), and you can replace one (and only one) with this one. For Divination, you get a power with rapid-fire range that grants re-rolls to hit (shooting and combat) to one friendly unit. Not bad, especially on our shooty units like Purifiers or for making Henchmen melta/plasma more accurate. Its short range is going to mean phalanx formations benefit more 1: Grants Counter-Attack and you get normal BS when firing Overwatch (basically 'Stand n Shoot' from Fantasy). This can be potentially devastating to an enemy assault, as you are essentially getting a free Shooting phase in the enemy turn when they charge you, and getting the charge bonus standing still. Coteaz is a defensive character anyway, so attaching him to say Terminators or Purifiers makes them god-like at defending against assaults. Note that this power only affects the psyker and the unit he's joined to, so careful when placing Coteaz in deployment 2: Rapid-fire range, does the same job as the Lion Helm for Dark Angels. Compared to 'Shrouding', this is rather more limited. Its only going to protect one unit per turn, and even then its an average save. Good use of Aegis defense lines (dirt cheap BTW), area terrain and 'Shrouding' will largely make it irrelevant IMO. It does work in both shooting and combat though, which is nice. 3: Storm bolter range, forces re-rolls of enemy saves. This is very useful, and again works in both shooting and combat. Its medium range is great, as unlike the buff powers it can reach out and affect people from a safe distance. It does only affect a single enemy unit though, so choose carefully to maximise its effects. 4: Affects Psyker and unit, all ranged attack ignore cover (ignoring cover is irrelevant in close-combat obviously). Very powerful, and of course is especially potent with one of our more neglected units, the Purgators. Note that according the FAQ, Purgators do not grant 4+ cover when they 'Astral Aim' anymore. Coupled with this power, they will be the bane of enemy units trying to reach your gunline. Sadly, this power can never affect the Vindicare :( 5: Only buffs psyker, re-rolls to hit and wound and failed saves. Nice I guess, but I'd honestly exchange it for the Primaris power, our psykers are far more about support than raw damage dealing. 6: Roll 3D6 and pick the result for Reserves and mysterious terrain (urgh, just acknowledging that retarded Fantasy import makes me annoyed). This is obviously great for Reserve armies, but it requires the psyker to be on the board to use it (just like 'Communion'). I'd actually rate 'Communion' as a better ability TBH, but I guess this is nice for rolling blood forests or whatever when you want it. Summary: Primaris is awesome, three definitely useful abilities, two meh, one marginal (Reserves, eh). This is the buff psyker table, so if you have already good units, it is of great benefit. None of these powers kill stuff on their own though. Also, they are all Warp Charge 1 powers, so you can get full use of your powers each turn. Telekinesis: Primaris: One of the new beam powers (draw a line, all units in the way affected). Hits as hard as a multi-laser, no AP, causes Strikedown. Meh, used for disrupting mostly, it only has 2/3rd the range of a storm bolter so its not like a huge number of things will get tagged. Pass 1: Same range as above, 2D6 Strength (on 11 or 12 auto-wounds/auto-pens a vehicle), D6 for AP. Random random of random. Nope, pass 2: This a word for word of 'Gate' from Codex: Space Marines. Nice I guess, but our army isn't exactly crying out for ways to Deepstrike. Pass 3: Storm bolter range, forces re-rolls of any 6's to hit or wound (note that this is both shooting and combat). Against vehicles, it additionally causes a haywire hit (if a squadron, all vehicles are affected). This is kinda like the anti-vehicle power from Codex: Space Marines, it'll sometimes do nothing, other times it'll be amusingly OP. Pass 4: One of the new nova powers, basically just means an AOE centered on the psyker. Causes D6 lasgun hits to everyone within bolt pistol range, and pins. Pass 5: Bolt pistol range, this is pretty much word for word of 'Force Dome' from Codex: Space Marines, with one important difference. It has the rule that Lycheguard dispersion shields have. Amusing to bounce lascannon into stuff, but I wouldn't count on it. Doesn't refract templates though. Pass 6: Word for word, its 'Vortex', which we already have access to for dirt-cheap, and we still don't use it. I guess blasts getting full Strength even if they only touch a vehicle makes it a little better, but if things go wrong it nukes your psyker and his unit. Pass, even normal Marines don't bother with it. It is also Warp Charge 2, so it prevents casting any others unless you take it on a Librarian and buy 'Mastery 3' for him. Summary: Mediocrity all round. Don't even bother rolling on the table for this lot, you'll get far more out of Divination Pyromancy: Yeah, because apparently the one thing Knights lack is offensive capability. At least we get Divination.... Primaris: A heavy flamer, that sets people on fire (check the new Soul Blaze rules, be prepared for 'meh'). Yep, don't care, 'Warp Rift' is so much better. Pass 1: Okay, so you get a rosarius save, +2 Strength and Soul Blaze on melee attacks. This is functionally worse than the underwhelming self-buff from Divination. Pass 2: Only buffs a single unit, and it grants what used to be average cover save against shooting attacks that aren't Soul Blaze or Melta. Charges against the unit with this power on it get set on fire with bolter rounds but no AP, so no one cares. Really limited, and melta is everywhere, so tanks can't rely on it either. Pass 3: Bolter range, bolter damage, blast that ignores cover and has Soul Blaze. Cool. No one cares. Pass 4: 2/3rds storm bolter range, ignores armour and cover, if you kill the initial target place a blast on him and resolve with bolter damage and ignores cover. Whatever. Pass 5: Another nova power, inferno pistol range, causes 2D6 bolter damage, blinds and ignores cover. Yawn...yeah no. Pass 6: Beam ability, meltagun range, meltagun damage exactly. Derp. Its very hard to set up multiple hits, so all you really get is a free melta shot. And it costs 2 Warp Charge. Pass Summary: Two buffs that are resoundingly average, a pile of damage attacks that most will shrug off, and a meltagun for the ultimate. Yawn, don't roll here. So, we've established that Divination is our best psychic table. We've also established the Primaris power is pretty worthwhile, so roll for your two powers and swap the least important for it (there are a few meh ones you could roll so this is worth considering). So, taking the best powers from Divination, lets consider some synergies; 'Prescience' (Primaris) is best used on units with powerful guns but not a lot of shots or great BS. In other words, Henchmen melta/plasma. Yes, plasma, because plasma cannons get a new lease on life with reduced cover saves and still being S7 with blast damage against vehicles. So, your 3x plasma cannon servitor unit or 3x melta Acolyte unit is a great target for this power. Coteaz is usually babysitting the plasma cannon servitors anyway (so they don't derp and fail to fire 50% of the time), and he should be near some Henchmen melta to buff it. 'Foreboding' (1) is best used on a big unit with weapons that fire a lot of shots, and that fight well in close-combat already. That means TDA blob, Paladins and Purifiers. Strikes can also benefit, but the rule with 40k is stack buffs on good units, not to prop up mediocre ones. Just remember, Overwatch and Counter Attack only matter if you get charged, so its probably better on a more defensive unit like Purifiers than an offensive unit like TDA manz. 'Forewarning' (2) is great on Purifiers and Strikes, less important on TDA. I'd consider swapping in most cases though, 'Shrouding' gives the same benefit to multiple squads, and you only have to worry about the rare cases of 'Ignore Cover'. If you are a cautious player though, this is great for extending the life of a vulnerable unit. It also affects the psyker if your target the unit he's with, so if you need to shore up Coteaz in combat (as his 2+ save is good, but things can break it), cast this. 'Misfortune' (3) is great for ensuring an enemy dies. Remember, this applies to all saving throws they make, so the more your focus your shooting and assaults on the target, the more they must re-roll. Eldar wish they had this for 'Doom', re-rolling wounds is nice but re-rolling enemy saves is just flat-out brutal. Our army already excels at putting lots of damage downrange, forcing saves to fail through re-rolls meshes so well with our army style. Needless to say, firing PsyDreads into a skimmer or Flyer with this power on it is hilarious. 'Perfect Timing' (4) is situational, as some units have great armour or invul and won't mind you ignoring cover against them. However, when used with plasma cannons, it gets a bit insane. It is only the psyker+unit though, so where you attached Coteaz/Inquisitor matters. Triple plasma cannon servitor is great with this, as are Jokaero spawning lascannons. 'Precognition' (5) is very situational, its really going to only come into play when Coteaz/Inquisitor hits combat and gets swinging with a nemesis hammer. Not an ideal situation, but re-rolling failed saves (on top of 'Forewarning' giving Coteaz a much-needed invul save in combat) is great, on top of hitting harder and more often. 'Scrier's Gaze' (6) is extremely situational, and like 'Communion' it stops mattering after the first few turns (ie after your Reserves have arrived). I guess if you plan a Stormraven list, its good, but eh, our army doesn't have a lot of units to begin with. Allies will make this more relevant. Don't factor it into your game plan though, as it is randomly rolled for. I hope thats a good summary, and gives enough info for your guys to chew over. I tried to avoid mentioning ranges or actual damage profiles where possible, to avoid IP violations. If any of the admins have a problem with my descriptions, please let me know :) . Anyway, I wanna hear from you guys. Having had a look over the tables and the FAQ, what are your thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Aye, I came pretty much to the same conclusion as you did. Divination is great, the other two are meh. Replace Coteaz's powers everytime unless playing against Daemons. I might occasionally pick a mastery 3 Librarian for fun in lists where I don't rely on his codex powers. As for the two psychic disciplines Grey Knights can't pick, Biomancy is also pretty decent, the one I'll probably take on a couple of my 'Nids (for the once in a blue moon T9 S9 I9 A7 Swarmlord with Eternal Warrior :lol:), while Telekinesis is also pretty mediocre. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Mastery 3 is such an investment though, I'd rather just spend the extra 50 and pick up Coteaz, who brings a pile of options (Henchmen) and an extra power as well (the one extra power of upgrading to Mastery 3 versus his default Mastery 2). I agree though, if you really want to bother with the Divination powers on a Libby, upgrading is worthwhile (so you roll something good). Biomancy is pretty good, and we can get it (albeit not on our own units, just the offensive powers really) via Allies. Telekinesis we have man, its the meh one with all the disruption and random damage :lol: . You mean Telepathy, and yeah its a bit a mixed bag, I really like 6 though (its a similiar table to psychostroke nades). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, the Mastery 3 Librarian is going to be for the occasional fun game, not the competitive lists (unless it turns out to work really well of course ;)). The GK codex is good enough so that you don't have to take the optimum configuration every time and still have a strong list. And, yeah, I meant Telepathy. ;) Number 6 is nice, but it's a Warp Charge 2 power if I recall correctly, and you might as well just take the Psychostroke grenades. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, I don't get the whole 'Warp Charge' stuff. It really punishes the armies without Level 2 psykers, like Imperial Guard. You can potentially roll for powers you can't cast, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 If you roll a power you already have, or one with a Warp Charge higher than your Mastery Level, you get a reroll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Oh true, didn't see that part. Well thats alright then Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hmmm, interesting analysis, appreciate you starting this topic. I especially lke your insights on how to maxmize Divination powers in conjunction with GK units. A few additional points: PYROMANCY -"Fiery Form" is probably not that good, unless you have it on a very cheap Inquisitor, then you suddenly turn him into a respectable warrior. -"Fire Shield" might be useful when combined with night fighting, as it can give a critical unit a 2+ cover save (4+ cover plus Shrouding effect) so it can survive long enough to complete its mission. TELEKINESIS -"Gates of Infinity" is actually one of the most useful powers for GKs, in my opinion (I have long envied C:SM for having it). The ability to reposition any GK squad 24" every turn without a vehicle is amazing, especially given the threat range of many of our weapons (SBs, Psycannons, Incincerators). Imagine 'bouncing' a full 10 man Terminator or Paladin squad from one side of the board to right next to a critical enemy unit on turn 1. To prevent against scattering, you can use servo skulls, you can use Mystics in a forward scouting Storm Raven, or you can use allies with Homing Beacons (i.e. on Drop Pods, Scout Bikers, Blood Angel Scouts, etc.). DIVINATION -"Misfortune" is another outstanding power. Althought it only targets one unit (unlike Null Zone), it has great range and can make decent GK shooting attacks into devasting ones. For example, lets say your Purgation Squad armed with 4 Incinerators shoots at a typical 10 man MEQ squad. Each template hitting 3 models, that is 12 hits, wounding on a 2+, that is 10 wounds, with MEQs armor saving all but 3 of those wounds. Misfortune increases the unsaved wounds from that same attack up to 5-6, making the templates that much more potent. In terms of invuls, this power makes units with high Invuls, such as Hammernators, Seer Councils, and Battlesuits with shield generators much easier to take down. -"Precognition" is actually something that can turn a GK Librarian into a strategic close combat asset. Armed with a Warding Stave (2++ in CC) and this power, he can be nearly invincible in close combat, especially useful during challenges. No only can he re-roll all To Hits and To Wounds (increasing his likelyhood of getting a wound and using his force weapon), but he has a re-rollable 2++ save. Imagine tying up a critical enemy unit (Abbadon, Daemon Prince, Mephiston) with this Librarian all game long. -"Scrier's Gaze", while in some ways redundant with Psychic Communion, combines really well with Grand Strategy, as it not only ensures your troops come in on the right turn, but perhaps even more importantly, on the correct flank. Nothing can mess up a plan more than that Paladin squad coming in on the wrong flank, completely on the side of the board where they can't affect the battle at all. Conversely, a critical unit such as a Dreadknight coming in on the correct flank at the right time can change a battle entirely. -"Forewarning" is one of the other outstanding powers for GKs, in my opinion. Why? 1) - Number one, it turns our expensive basic models into MUCH more surviveable units, both in shooting and close combat. Purifiers are very good already, but imagine them with a 4++ save. Even Strike Squad/Interceptors become respectable close combat troops with this ability. Also, while not as big a boost, Terminators gaining a boost to their Invul can really make a difference in their combat effectiveness. 2) - Number two, Nemesis Force Swords (NFS). As I mentioned in a separate post, suddenly our default weapon takes on a whole new potency when combined with "Forewarning." Any GK with a NFS and "Forewarning" now has a 3++ save in close combat. This raises the CC potential of our basic squads to an entirely new level, enabling GK units to stand toe to toe with elite close combat units like Hammernators, Genestealers, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hmmm, interesting analysis, appreciate you starting this topic. I especially lke your insights on how to maxmize Divination powers in conjunction with GK units. Thanks man. I figured it was inevitable, the new powers are here to stay (they are main rulebook after all). -"Fiery Form" is probably not that good, unless you have it on a very cheap Inquisitor, then you suddenly turn him into a respectable warrior. I guess, I'd still rather roll for another Divination power though. Unlike in Fantasy, you are allowed duplicate powers on multiple characters, so there is nothing stopping us (for example, at 2k, where you can have a Secondary attachment) just spamming Inquisitors+Coteaz for multiple Divination buffs. -"Fire Shield" might be useful when combined with night fighting, as it can give a critical unit a 2+ cover save (4+ cover plus Shrouding effect) so it can survive long enough to complete its mission. Its still only affecting one unit though, and 'Night Fighting' isn't something you can rely on. By comparison, 'Shrouding' always works and is pretty easy to get working (ie hug cover, set up cheap Aegis lines). -"Gates of Infinity" is actually one of the most useful powers for GKs, in my opinion (I have long envied C:SM for having it). The ability to reposition any GK squad 24" every turn without a vehicle is amazing, especially given the threat range of many of our weapons (SBs, Psycannons, Incincerators). Imagine 'bouncing' a full 10 man Terminator or Paladin squad from one side of the board to right next to a critical enemy unit on turn 1. To prevent against scattering, you can use servo skulls, you can use Mystics in a forward scouting Storm Raven, or you can use allies with Homing Beacons (i.e. on Drop Pods, Scout Bikers, Blood Angel Scouts, etc.). My problem with it is that you have to randomly roll for it. Assuming you get it, you are then subject to the vagaries of Deepstrike (only two Knight units can't Deepstrike). You can be assured the enemy will get rid of your servo skulls and Mystics as a high priority, so again, can't rely on it. I agree its a useful power, but you need too much to go in your favour to get it to work. 1) - Number one, it turns our expensive basic models into MUCH more surviveable units, both in shooting and close combat. Purifiers are very good already, but imagine them with a 4++ save. Even Strike Squad/Interceptors become respectable close combat troops with this ability. Also, while not as big a boost, Terminators gaining a boost to their Invul can really make a difference in their combat effectiveness. 2) - Number two, Nemesis Force Swords (NFS). As I mentioned in a separate post, suddenly our default weapon takes on a whole new potency when combined with "Forewarning." Any GK with a NFS and "Forewarning" now has a 3++ save in close combat. This raises the CC potential of our basic squads to an entirely new level, enabling GK units to stand toe to toe with elite close combat units like Hammernators, Genestealers, etc. Huh, I hadn't though of that last one. You still face the problem of medicore Initiative 4 though, which is why we take halberds on TDA (with some hammers for anti-walker insurance, and now for cracking TDA). 3++ is definitely sexy, but I dunno if its enough to give up Initiative 6. I'd have to playtest and probably take 'Quicksilver' on my Librarian before deciding. Forewarning isn't as useful at range as 'Shrouding' though, due to 'Shrouding' affecting multiple units and 'Ignore Cover' being a pretty rare ability. I agree with your points though, it boosts the power-armoured squads a lot against power weapons and plasma. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255055-my-review-of-the-new-psychic-powers/#findComment-3103423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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