Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 With powerweapons and forceweapons being AP3 I'm thinking my usual all GKT list is looking allot sexier Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 With powerweapons and forceweapons being AP3 I'm thinking my usual all GKT list is looking allot sexier Yes it is. In close combat you have to watch out for Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, the usual double-strength gubbins, but at the moment, power weapon wielding opponents are in for a world of hurt and much laughter-in-the-face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 With powerweapons and forceweapons being AP3 I'm thinking my usual all GKT list is looking allot sexier Yes it is. In close combat you have to watch out for Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, the usual double-strength gubbins, but at the moment, power weapon wielding opponents are in for a world of hurt and much laughter-in-the-face. I'm sensing allotof bandwagon movement in the direction of Deathwing with the DA codex drops Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeh the Thunder Hammer Storm Shield variety are gonna be painful to go up against for GK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 And I'm sensing plasma weapons getting a comeback. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 With powerweapons and forceweapons being AP3 I'm thinking my usual all GKT list is looking allot sexier Yes it is. In close combat you have to watch out for Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, the usual double-strength gubbins, but at the moment, power weapon wielding opponents are in for a world of hurt and much laughter-in-the-face. I'm sensing allotof bandwagon movement in the direction of Deathwing with the DA codex drops Already a dedicated Dark Angel AND Grey Knight player :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 The problem is we don't have much that can handle 2+ armour saves now, other than the Daemonhammer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 The problem is we don't have much that can handle 2+ armour saves now, other than the Daemonhammer Rending Psycannons, Storm Bolters, even the Psilencer (both regular and Gatling). Plus Lascannons, Multi-Meltas, Plasma Cannons, Dreadknights, Dreadnoughts. Any of the Assassins, Librarians with Smite/Vortex of Doom, Ordo Xenos Inquisitors with Needle Pistols. All of these are effective, either through weight of fire, good AP or special rules. We still have PLENTY of options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, our Terminators and Paladins are pretty formidable now. Rending, MC's and I1 melee weapons like fists and hammers are just about the only things you have to worry about in close-combat. Against ranged fire, we have 'Shrouding' keeping us alive against plasma (melta isn't cost-effective and we'll cut it down before it can reach us normally). In terms of dealing with enemy 2+ saves, plasma cannon servitors offer a cost-effective way to deal with them. Add in the Primaris power (re-rolls to hit) for Divination on Coteaz (he has to accompany them to prevent Mindlock anyway), and you are causing serious carnage. Massed fire, in particular psycannon Rends, still work fine as well. Deathwing will be getting an update soon, so I doubt the current meta of CML Stormhammers will continue for long. In any case, we have ways to dealing with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Don't forget the really cheap squads of 3 plasmagunners heanchmen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 And I'm sensing plasma weapons getting a comeback. B) A comeback? What's it like where you play? haha I feel like every one of our IG and marine players swarms us with melta and plasma at every opportunity. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 And I'm sensing plasma weapons getting a comeback. B) A comeback? What's it like where you play? haha I feel like every one of our IG and marine players swarms us with melta and plasma at every opportunity. ;) right,except now there will be more Close combat capable armies Fielding plasma. Also don't underestimate more over loading with saturation fire with the change in rapid fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Don't forget the really cheap squads of 3 plasmagunners heanchmen. Eh, I'd honestly prefer servitors, blasts hit more models, have longer range and its the same against vehicles now. If I run triple Acolytes, its only for melta (only need one shot now to slag a vehicle that doesn't have cover saves). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Don't forget the really cheap squads of 3 plasmagunners heanchmen. Eh, I'd honestly prefer servitors, blasts hit more models, have longer range and its the same against vehicles now. If I run triple Acolytes, its only for melta (only need one shot now to slag a vehicle that doesn't have cover saves). I can't remember, aren't servitors capped to 1 plasmacannon per unit (or is that the old codex!?) If they aren't, then they are a better choice, you're right! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Nope lol, you're just capped to three servitors with heavy weapons (ie not servo-arm). The other two options are multi-melta and heavy bolter, so needless to say, plasma cannon is all you should bother with :blush: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
templarios Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Greetings, Sorry for this question but I have away for awhile and just picked up the rulebook yesterday. As far as I can tell, power weapons used to ignore armor saves but now they don't anymore. We use the relevent AP value to determine this effect????? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Greetings,Sorry for this question but I have away for awhile and just picked up the rulebook yesterday. As far as I can tell, power weapons used to ignore armor saves but now they don't anymore. We use the relevent AP value to determine this effect????? Correct. For the purposes of nemesis weapons though, its pretty simple. We ignore all armour except 2+ saves, which require nemesis hammers to ignore (as nemesis hammers have thunderhammer rules as well, thus giving them AP2). So, unless its a Terminator or something similarly armoured, our nemesis force weapons function pretty much the same now. Also, for nemesis hammers (since they are AP2) they get +1 on the damage table when attacking vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3103606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Don't forget the really cheap squads of 3 plasmagunners heanchmen. Eh, I'd honestly prefer servitors, blasts hit more models, have longer range and its the same against vehicles now. If I run triple Acolytes, its only for melta (only need one shot now to slag a vehicle that doesn't have cover saves). What's wrong with having both in the same unit? It's what I'm planning on doing in my upcoming Inquisition army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm sensing allotof bandwagon movement in the direction of Deathwing with the DA codex drops Holy cow - you just jammed three words together. I don't think I've ever seen that done before, even on the interwebz. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Shame is that my GKT lists uses lots of Halberds. If Halberds now counts as the new weapon class of Power Lance, they're only good on the charge when they're AP3. In every other turn of Assault, they're AP4. So I have to hope I can kill everything in the turn I charge or it's going to be a long bloody fight. Ok, forget that. I just read the new GK 6th revisions and all Nemesis Force Weapons counts as Unusual Force Weapons, so they all keep their Ap3 value and all the bonues they give. Meaning Halberds are still rapists. Good for me, bad for my opponent. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Remember that blast weapons (in this case, a plasma cannon) cannot Snap Fire or Overwatch; something that plasma guns and plasma pistols can do. Food for thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Shame is that my GKT lists uses lots of Halberds. If Halberds now counts as the new weapon class of Power Lance, they're only good on the charge when they're AP3. In every other turn of Assault, they're AP4. So I have to hope I can kill everything in the turn I charge or it's going to be a long bloody fight. Nemesis Force Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons and so use the rules given for them in Codex: Grey Knights. Nemesis Daemon Hammers use the rules for Thunder Hammers with the additional Nemesis Force Weapon rules (Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Nemesis Force Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons and so use the rules given for them in Codex: Grey Knights. Nemesis Daemon Hammers use the rules for Thunder Hammers with the additional Nemesis Force Weapon rules (Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon). Yep. just realized it. Sorry for that. Didn't realized that one little paragraph in the revisions. Either way, I'm overjoyed at it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Nemesis Force Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons and so use the rules given for them in Codex: Grey Knights. Nemesis Daemon Hammers use the rules for Thunder Hammers with the additional Nemesis Force Weapon rules (Daemonbane and Nemesis Force Weapon). Yep. just realized it. Sorry for that. Didn't realized that one little paragraph in the revisions. Either way, I'm overjoyed at it. You and me both Brother B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You and me both Brother GKT can now bring so much pain on any army list. Until we meet lots Plasma weapons. Then we're royally screwed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255069-have-terminators-suddenly-got-allot-better/#findComment-3104638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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