Drop pod armies and new rules

[jimbo1701]

I have a question regarding reserve limits. The BADAB (Big Ass Dark Angel Book) states that only half the army can be placed in reserve, not counting units that must be placed in reserve. Therefore, how does my Crimson Fist Drop pod army now work? The 5 drop pods do not count towards the limit as they MUST be placed in reserve. However, what about the 4 squads, dreadnought and pedro? As the Drop pod is a dedicated transport, do those units counts as being normal reserves or part of the 'MUST be placed in reserve' allocation??? Also, now that combat squads has changed to splitting them up into seperate units BEFORE deployment, I will be left with 8 units rather than 5.

 

I can see that they're trying to hamper all reserve lists, such as webways, whitescar outflankers and IG lists with this rule, but Drop pods were never overpowered in the first instance and so if indeed units embarked on DPs don't count as part of your reserve allocation, it will make them a more effective army build. (not to mention fluffy) If not then all drop armies are now unplayable, as you need half the contents to be on the table before the pods even deploy!!!

[Jacinda]

From the FAQ ...

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads and which models go into each combat squad, immediately before deployment. A unit split into combat squads therefore is now two separate units for all game purposes including calculating the total number of units in the army, and the number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with the deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle, providing its transport capacity allows.

 

In this case you have two units (combat squads) in a drop pod for three total units in reserves. The drop pod does not count to the limit, but the squads do. This then counts as 2 units in reserve for determining the limits. Drop Pods MUST come in as reserves so they are not counted. Your combat squads have the option to be deployed straight away so if they go in reserve, even if embarked in the Drop Pod, they count against that limit.

[DarkGuard]

When working out how many units can be placed in reserve, units that must be deployed by Deep strike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored

 

So don't worry about your Drop Pod army jimbo, it's fine.

[thade]

A small but important distinction there, haha.

[jimbo1701]

Phew, thanks for that chaps. I guess this will also apply to valkyries/stormravens as they're flyers and need to start in reserve. Glad you can now take a tactical squad in a rhino (as combat squads) and disembark both squads independentally - makes SMs much more tactically flexible as they should be. Looks like drop pod armies are pretty good now, especially with the new reserve rolls.

[DarkGuard]

By the reading of the rules the exemption should also apply to flyers.

[euphemismo]

Slightly off topic, but I have question re disembarking from drop pods. On the turn the pod comes in, is the unit able to disembark up to 6 inches from the hull of pod? BADAB p. 36 says "deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport if they are in one." I don't see any carve out in the Transport section that prohibits this.

[thade]

Slightly off topic, but I have question re disembarking from drop pods. On the turn the pod comes in, is the unit able to disembark up to 6 inches from the hull of pod? BADAB p. 36 says "deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport if they are in one." I don't see any carve out in the Transport section that prohibits this.

 

They disembark within 6" of the Pod, not beyond...just like any other transport. <3

 

Also, I don't believe BADAB is catching on. Can't we have something shorter? BRB (Big Red Book) was telling and quick. It was B-whateverthecolorwas-B before. What color is this one? Green? BGB? BDAB? Drop the A! haha MAKE IT SHORTER, AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[Arikel]

Slightly off topic, but I have question re disembarking from drop pods. On the turn the pod comes in, is the unit able to disembark up to 6 inches from the hull of pod? BADAB p. 36 says "deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport if they are in one." I don't see any carve out in the Transport section that prohibits this.

 

They disembark within 6" of the Pod, not beyond...just like any other transport. <3

 

Also, I don't believe BADAB is catching on. Can't we have something shorter? BRB (Big Red Book) was telling and quick. It was B-whateverthecolorwas-B before. What color is this one? Green? BGB? BDAB? Drop the A! haha MAKE IT SHORTER, AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

 

Eh i always thought BRB stood for Base(alternately, Basic or Big) Rule Book anyways, no reason to change what works. Looking forward to picking up the new one, the new rules that I've gleaned so far seem intriguing and could add a lot to my group's games.

[Red Fury]

BGB works

 

It was the BRB before and the BBB before that (it was black). Read The Big Black Book! ;)

[Rorshak]

From 6ED page 124:

 

"..players can choose not to deploy up to half their units (rounding up) keeping them as reserves..."

 

and

 

"Units that must start in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes"

 

but

 

"Independant Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit."

 

 

In essence, all the Squads/ Dreadnoughts/ Thunderfires that have a drop pod can go into reserve as long as they are on board it.

 

Only half the rest of your units can go into reserve (bar flyers, who like the DPs must also start in reserve), which means if you have 2 ICs in a DP army one of them has to start on the table!

 

And we were hoping to be rid of the Dawn of War style deployment anomalies this edition...

 

 

Not sure how the Terminator rule 'may always start in reserve' is suppossed to be calculated with reference to the above.

[StrayCatt]

Only half the rest of your units can go into reserve (bar flyers, who like the DPs must also start in reserve), which means if you have 2 ICs in a DP army one of them has to start on the table!

 

Page 36 overrides that;

"When working out how many units can be placed in reserve, units that must be deployed by Deepstrike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored.

 

Emphasis added ... Note it states any models embarked ... If you put your IC's onto a DP, they will Deepstrike with the DP ... Now, if you have not placed them into a DP, then you are correct.

[AyanamiKun]

Another question about drop pods: Did they finally define were exactly the access points on a drop pod are? I had hoped for a clarification but couldn't find any ... :\

[DarkGuard]

They don't need to, it's open-topped. Therefore its hull is an access point.

[AyanamiKun]

They don't need to, it's open-topped. Therefore its hull is an access point.

 

I should have formulated my question more clearly ;) I meant a clarification of what "hull" actually means in regard to the huge doors. Are they decoration? I would say yes but I cannot find a clear statement for that in the rules (again).

[DarkGuard]

Well in that respect, the BGB still fails. No mention about the fins on the side or doors, the doors being the more pressing concern. Consider being able to disembark 6" from the tip of the door *shudders*.

 

If it counts for anything though the pictures for disembarking from Rhinos and Chimeras does indicate you measure from the door being raised up, as in not on the floor, so it seems intended that the door doesn't count as the hull.

[AyanamiKun]

Well in that respect, the BGB still fails. No mention about the fins on the side or doors, the doors being the more pressing concern. Consider being able to disembark 6" from the tip of the door *shudders*.

 

If it counts for anything though the pictures for disembarking from Rhinos and Chimeras does indicate you measure from the door being raised up, as in not on the floor, so it seems intended that the door doesn't count as the hull.

 

I think so too. No, I do not even think so, I hope so ;)

[Aidoneus]

I guess this will also apply to valkyries/stormravens as they're flyers and need to start in reserve.

Just to throw a monkey wrench in things, the Drop Pod exception does not work for flyers. The passage that has been quoted is from the Deep Strike rules, and specifically talks about units that must Deep Strike. Flyers must start in reserves, but not in Deep Strike, so this passage does not apply.

 

Instead, you look on page 123, and find the rules for Reserves, which state:

 

"Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not."

 

Storm Ravens, Valkyries, etc. are not dedicated transports, and so do not benefit from this exception either. That being the case, since they fall under no exception, it seems fairly straightforward to say that they count toward the 50% of your army that can begin the game in reserves.

[StrayCatt]

Good job spotting that ... So ICs on DPs don't count towards the 50%, but ICs on flyers do ...

 

So if you were to build a combined flyer transport/drop pod list, where the flyers are dedicated transports that also carry 1 or more ICs, then you would have to deploy 1/2 (rounding up) of your ICs (the only models in this example that trigger the reserves limit) during deployment.

 

Then on your first turn you deploy 1/2 of your drop pods ...

 

Not great, but not a losing scenario either necessarily.

[Morticon]

That being the case, since they fall under no exception, it seems fairly straightforward to say that they count toward the 50% of your army that can begin the game in reserves.

 

Just to clarify, the "they"in this case, are you saying this is for Ravens/Valks or for units embarked on them? I'm assuming the latter?

[Gentlemanloser]

Isn't there a rule now that if at any/some point of a game you have no mini's on board, you lose?

 

How would that interact with an all DP/Flyer (if possible?) Army?

 

Would it be impossible to run an entire DP army, as when your first turn starts, you have no mini's on board an you auto lose?

 

When is this checked? Start of your turn, end? Any point in between?

[WookieeGunner]

I believe that rule starts at the beginning of Turn 2, so unless they destroy all of your units that DP'd in, you'd be ok.

[Venemox]

I believe that rule starts at the beginning of Turn 2, so unless they destroy all of your units that DP'd in, you'd be ok.

Sadly, no. Page 122, first paragraph of victory conditions.. ...at the end of any game turn...

[Grey Mage]

I guess this will also apply to valkyries/stormravens as they're flyers and need to start in reserve.

Just to throw a monkey wrench in things, the Drop Pod exception does not work for flyers. The passage that has been quoted is from the Deep Strike rules, and specifically talks about units that must Deep Strike. Flyers must start in reserves, but not in Deep Strike, so this passage does not apply.

 

Instead, you look on page 123, and find the rules for Reserves, which state:

 

"Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not."

 

Storm Ravens, Valkyries, etc. are not dedicated transports, and so do not benefit from this exception either. That being the case, since they fall under no exception, it seems fairly straightforward to say that they count toward the 50% of your army that can begin the game in reserves.

To clarify- the flyers do NOT count towards the number that can be in reserve, but any passengers that are on them certainly appear to.

 

Isn't there a rule now that if at any/some point of a game you have no mini's on board, you lose?

 

How would that interact with an all DP/Flyer (if possible?) Army?

 

Would it be impossible to run an entire DP army, as when your first turn starts, you have no mini's on board an you auto lose?

 

When is this checked? Start of your turn, end? Any point in between?

Its not when your turn starts, its when the game turn -ie both players turns- ends that you check for this. By the end of your first turn youd have alteast some units come in from reserves.

[Venemox]

That being the case, since they fall under no exception, it seems fairly straightforward to say that they count toward the 50% of your army that can begin the game in reserves.

 

Just to clarify, the "they"in this case, are you saying this is for Ravens/Valks or for units embarked on them? I'm assuming the latter?

 

It would seem to be pretty straight forward. Except for one minor detail. This statements on page 124 speaks specifically about a unit the MUST start in reserve, and their DEDICATED TRANSPORT. It does not speak about a TRANSPORT that must start in reserve and its OCCUPANTS. I think we can all agree that flyers must start in reserve (page 80) and therefore don't count torwards the 50%. This leaves the argument open that models starting the game embarked upon a flyer must start the game in reserve due to the flyers rules.