Venemox Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Before I get any complaints about the location of this topic, the terms set forth by the staff is as follows: If your army list is 2 armies currently covered by the B&C as allies then you can discuss them wherever it is appropriate for that. But if your allies list contains armies we do not cover (i.e. Xenos and Imperial Guard) then your lists and how best to use your non power armor allies will be restricted to the Tactica and Army List forums. Obviously full Xenos and IG armies won’t be allowed at all. Nor will a Xenos/IG army with Marines/Sisters/Chaos as allies. Because lets be honest, if you are allying with vile Xenos then your Chapter should be hunted down, destroyed and the ashes used to salt the earth.:) Since this initial post does not have an army list, nor any specific ally armies in mind, it is not limited to Tactica and Army List sub-forums. That would require both having a list AND having it consist of non-BnC armies. Now, on to the questions at hand. With the new 6th edition: What BA are good at, where do they lack competency, and who can be used to staunch those gap? Any specific 'cheese' or 'power' combinations we expect the WAAAC'ers to use? Anyhting really fun or fluffy? Anything just odd or surprising? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregornet Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 From a purely fluff based standpoint I would like to pick up a sallies detachment along with a storm talon to represent battle brothers from Armageddon. Guard would also work if steel legion wasn't entirely metal. As far as what we need game wise I don't think there are too many shortcomings in our book honestly. I haven't had time to wrap my head around all of 6th and the FAQ. Can anyone else point out any blatant holes in our list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I've considered painting up some Crimson fist allies, mainly due to having some extra marines and wanting to paint them as crimson fists. But I can't see much advantage to most allies, though allying in some Space Wolves seems awesome. Some Grey hunters as a great objective holder, a unit of long fangs. Maybe 3 Wolf Guard to give each squad 1 WG and some character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 But I can't see much advantage to most allies, though allying in some Space Wolves seems awesome. Some Grey hunters as a great objective holder, a unit of long fangs. Maybe 3 Wolf Guard to give each squad 1 WG and some character. Agreed. Since the FAQ nerfed Sanguinary Priests, there's no real combos anymore. There's just solid additions. Grey Hunters with Wolf Guard make better scorers than Tactical Marines, and Thunderwolf Cavalry in the mission where FA can score is good times. Same for Long Fangs too. They'll score in that one mission, and they provide better fire support than Devastators, especially if joined with a TDA/CML Wolf Guard, or a Rune Priest, or Logan! A rune priest will give you better anti-psyker tools too, since hoods got nerfed. Guard with Valkyries (? - the one with triple las cannon) can help win the war against opposing flyers. They'll bring a blob for scoring an objective, and Autocannon HWTs for glancing tanks to death. Dark Angels can provide scoring Terminators with CMLs, again for backfield support. Belial's squad can get FNP too, for a decent sized rock unit. DA can also provide scoring ravenwing bikers, which also have the ability to scout, and come with locator beacons. Want to deep strike a land raider full of terminators? These may be your best bet. One squad can be upgraded to have FNP as well, I think. Other than that, I'd consider allying with Tau for suits, but that's pretty obvious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Dark Angels or Codex Space Marines to ally in bikes would be good. Scoring bikes instead of using our own normal bikes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 DA Sammael with scoring bikers and Sammael very shooty support element. Can we run a bike priest with them ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 DA Sammael with scoring bikers and Sammael very shooty support element. Can we run a bike priest with them ? The bike priest could join them, but not help them much. Only blood angels can benefit from the chalice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 DA Sammael with scoring bikers and Sammael very shooty support element. Can we run a bike priest with them ? You could, but it won't do anything :D Still, it's a T5 priest on a bike that can buff surrounding BAs. It may be worth including a unit of BA bikes as well, in the FA slot. They'll get FC and FNP, and can score in 1/6 missions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
benation Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yep people having the same idea as me; I'm taking in my new list for 6th - Dante Priest with JP 5 Sang Guard as troops 5 Death Company Death Company Dreadnought Scouts with Sniper Rifles Baal Predator Storm Raven Detatchment: either, Sammael on his Landspeeder 2 Ravenwing Attack squads with Plasma or Melta or Space Marine Captain on Bike 2x 3 Space Marine Bike troops with Plasma or Melta Scoring bikes will take up the roll that RAS inside razorbacks used to have now that units don't count as scoring inside vehicals. My list is designed around the 6 missions, I've got 2 fast scoring troops in the bikes, they take the mid field objectives, then the scouts take the objective on my side of the board, and the the sanguinary guard, who have hit and run can jump out of combat to take the objective on their side of the board. The Baal Pred is scoring in the mission "Scouring" The Stormraven is scoring in the mission "Big Guns Never Tire" The Death Company and Death Company Dreadnought just go :lol: :cuss up. If I take Sammael it will be sick to have an Armor 14 BS5 Land Speeder, again, fast moving, can contest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You cannot take named Independent characters as allies. Sammael stays at home. I think a wiser decision might be to take Mephiston, another Librarian, and get a 3rd by allying with Codex Space Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 We are blood angels, we need nothing from none but the sons of Sanguinious.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine_28 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You cannot take named Independent characters as allies. Where does it say this? I can't find it. =( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Legion Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I am dying to field those awesome storm talons. yeah they are too expensive point wise for what they do, but it's such an awesome model! I would love to recreate my destroyed salamanders too, but I'm a little sick of painting marines...Perhaps I'll start up with some tau when they get a new book. I used to love my broadsides....such sexy guns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You cannot take named Independent characters as allies. Sammael stays at home. Is this true? This is the first I've heard of this in the scouring of the internet for all things 6th edition. (forgive me as my BRB still hasn't arrived :P despite having been shipped 7 days ago) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine_28 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You cannot take named Independent characters as allies. Sammael stays at home. Is this true? This is the first I've heard of this in the scouring of the internet for all things 6th edition. (forgive me as my BRB still hasn't arrived :P despite having been shipped 7 days ago) Not that I can tell... I have the rulebook's allies open in front of me and I don't see it anywhere. There's a box that says you can't take two of the same unique character by using separate detachments but that's it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
benation Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 "You cannot take named Independent characters as allies. Sammael stays at home." - Atlantic Page number please, I actually deliberately looked for this quite hard before I posted about Sammael. Its no where in the Allies part or the FoC part, even the in the box which says "Named Characters" it says nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Space Wolves for some of their fire support. A squad of longfangs would be nice due to split fire, not to mention scoring in Big Guns (camp an objective with them). Cheap Rune Priest with divination to babysit them, since the signature power is a beast for longfangs and the rest of the powers aren't bad either, and a small grey hunters squad. Leave them to camp an objective, and have the Sons of Sanguinius go on the offensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3103937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 There's absolutely no prohibition against named characters as allies. I've looked at Ravenwing, as mentioned before, but it's very very expensive when compared to Vanilla SM. First, Sammael himself is 205 points, whereas a basic Captain on a Bike is 135. Add a few weapons here and there and he's still cheaper, with better stats. Second, the bikes are cheaper on the SM side too. For similarly equipped units, you basically get 2 bikes for free AND save yourself a few points by going SM over DA. On the flip side, DA have some unique rules that make Ravenwing appealing: - Fearless, which could be relevant - Teleport Homers. Not really necessary for jump pack marines on account of DoA, but essential if you want to throw down a Land Raider - Scout. Very important if you're using bikes to get upfield, then drop ASM or w/e in on Turn 2 - One Troop choice can get FNP. This makes them similar to how BA bikers work, and helps keep them around longer so their teleport homers can be put to good use - Ravenwing Combat squads work differently. A full Ravenwing bike squad is 6 guys and an Attack Bike. They deploy as either 6 + 1 or 3 + 3 + 1. SM bikes must either be all 8 + AB together, or 5 bikes alone and 3 bikes with AB Right now it comes down to the role you want them to play. In the original BA list, the bikes were built to be survivable tarpits, with ASM or Sanguinary Guard or w/e jumping over top and assaulting in. Ravenwing has the advantage of putting FNP on a Troop unit of bikes, whereas SM can only put FNP on a command squad. So even though it's more expensive, I think a list that utilizes the features of Ravenwing will be better than simply putting in a SM Captain and some Bikes (incidentally, you need a minimum of 5 bikes in a squad for it to count as a Troop). Take two full units of Ravenwing, scout them both up, survive first turn, then on second turn drop in your jumpers and your terminators and your land raiders. Sammael will probably go on his jet bike, attached to one of the squads? I'm not sure what to do with him. His AV14 skimmer is nice, but it's only got 2 HP (it's not explicitly stated, but it's what a regular speeder has). That seems fragile to me, but maybe he hangs back with some long range fire support? Still crafting at this point. Also worth it to note: you can attach a BA Priest on a Bike to Ravenwing bikers (after scouting, obv). They won't get FNP or FC from him, but the BA units around him will. This way you get a T5 FNP model who can hang out in a squad. You could always take a BA biker squad in FA too, or maybe some more MM ABs. Still thinking... EDIT: And I just remembered, if you take DA as allies with Sammael and Ravenwing, nothing is stopping you from taking a squad of Deathwing terminators as an Elite Choice... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 On the modeling side of "ally planning," I think I'm going to build and paint any allied Chapter forces (Ravenwing bikers, Thunderfire Cannon, Wolf Guard etc) as veterans or specialists of my own Blood Angels chapter. Do you think people would have a problem with this, though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You cannot take named Independent characters as allies. Sammael stays at home. I think a wiser decision might be to take Mephiston, another Librarian, and get a 3rd by allying with Codex Space Marines. I spent more time with the rulebook today. I was wrong about this. The guys at the shop last night were spouting that as wisdom. My bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Teleport Homers only work for teleporting units i.e Terminators. They cannot be used for units entering play by any other means. So unless the new rulebook changes this ruling, you can't use Ravenwing Bikes to bring in your Land Raiders. Codex: Space Marines page 101. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm considering Belial + his boosted Deathwing squad, supported by 2 drop-podding Furiosos. Yummy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Did they say anything in the rulebook about Forge World models and characters? Are they legit in 6th? I didn't think to look earlier. I bet there is some interesting stuff in there to take advantage of. I think that Shrike might be a serious contender for being a useful ally. You could do stupid stuff like infiltrate assault marines or Hammernators. Tigurius would be useful as well. He and Mephiston would give you undeniable psychic might. Take an ultramarine tac squad for objective camping. I'm not sure that having allies in games under 2,000 points will be worth it though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Having just finished my first game, I can confirm that Shrike buddying around with Death Company is awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Can allied Troops (assuming Battle Brothers) count for capturing objectives, etc.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255079-blood-angel-ally-planning/#findComment-3104823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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