John_f Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 How shold we kit up the RAS now? Too me it sounds it got a little nerfed. No plus on initiative when running with a priest, and the charge range in unrelaible at best. And you cant keep the meltas in tye from cause of the new wound allocation rules. I usually run 2x10 RAS with jp and a priest and a libby. What I was thinking is running a priest with a bike up front and a serg with a storm shield further back. The priest has a 2 plus LOS and as long as you dont roll a 1 you cant allocate wounds to squad members. Small arms fire can be taken on the priest (T5 3+ armour 5+ FnP) or allocated to regular marines. Lascannons and plasma can go on the storm shield. And if you come up agains a nasty character, just challange with you serg and hope for the storm shield. Even if you loose the serg, the character wont swing and the unit! And input on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just realised that the bike is redundant since you would use the majority toughness of 4, or is that how it works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychodough Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I was thinking about running a squad with Flamers now with the over watch rule. Get into a units face melt said face , then wait for them to charge and over watch melt face a second time. I think it would be great sitting on an objective, haven't tried it yet but it sounds awesome. I'm also thinking power fists with the combination of are out with grenades glancing stuff to death or a 5point melta bomb and challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp4rky Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'm thinking of a few different setups for my sergeants... 1) Power Weapon - purely to strike before fists in challenges. 2) Fist, Plasma pistol - hopefully roll a 6 to hit with the pistol and kill off the enemy character first, then hide at the back until initiative 1, consolidate in and punch something. 3) Fist, Storm Shield - challenge enemy characters, hopefully stay alive whilst killing them at the same time. 4) Dual pistols - we can fire them both at the same time! More chance of rolling a 6 to hit and killing enemy characters. Keep him alive by refusing challenges and cower at the back. I suspect I'll go for my own option 1 because I like to play aggressively and this allows me to make the first move. But play testing will tell which is the best option. I don't play on my assault squads ever meeting 2+ armour save enemies because most of them will have AP3 weapons. I'll deal with them with my big guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I was thinking about running a squad with Flamers now with the over watch rule. Get into a units face melt said face , then wait for them to charge and over watch melt face a second time. I think it would be great sitting on an objective, haven't tried it yet but it sounds awesome. I'm also thinking power fists with the combination of are out with grenades glancing stuff to death or a 5point melta bomb and challenges.I was personally thinking about going 2x Plasma Pistols and a power sword on the Sarge. I don't have a rulebook yet, but I doubt that PPs will have meaningfully changed and are really a "best overall" weapon for hunting infantry and tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benation Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 There is the benefit to the bike but you're doing it the wrong way round, you need the Librarian upfront to take small arms fire, then if there is a lascannon, you bounce it to the bike priest because he can't be instant killed and he still gets the 5+ fnp against the las cannon because its not instant kill (not double his toughness). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine_28 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'm currently running mine as a unit of ten with 2 meltas, a fist and an infernus. I feel like it allows the unit to tackle just about anything. The fist isn't clearly the superior choice or anything, but I'm not interested in AP3 power weapons or I1 power axes so the fist is the only remaining option. I don't think a Biker Priest is really worth it in this case as majority Toughness makes him as easy to wound as anyone else in his unit and the enemy is allowed to choose the order that your unit takes wounds. This means that if he shoots you with bolters and plasmas and you have a Biker Priest up front he'll just force you to save against the bolters first and then plasma someone else once the Priest is dead. =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 2 flamers and a powerfist is looking like my "normal" build, on the grounds that I have flamers and powerfists :lol: Cheapest Meltas I could find were £2.25 each and I want like 20.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I think people may be too worried about challenges. All of these wargear options get pricey fast. I don't think it is worth turning sergeants into point sinks for challenges that may or may not happen. Give him a fist or an axe and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 There is the benefit to the bike but you're doing it the wrong way round, you need the Librarian upfront to take small arms fire, then if there is a lascannon, you bounce it to the bike priest because he can't be instant killed and he still gets the 5+ fnp against the las cannon because its not instant kill (not double his toughness). No, I would probably bounce it to the storm shield serg that has a 3+ invun. But I get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 I think people may be too worried about challenges. All of these wargear options get pricey fast. I don't think it is worth turning sergeants into point sinks for challenges that may or may not happen. Give him a fist or an axe and call it a day. Imagine JUST the storm shield. It's cheap, you can soak up plasma, las cannon and whatnot. You can LOS small arms fire to RAS on a 4+. You can accept challenges from terminator lords and probably survive. Even if you don't survive, that's hits not going on the unit ie only one wound to combat resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Not quite right with the lascannon sponging...if you have a unit with mixed armour (as in the case of the storm shield etc), instead of taking saves all at once and removing from front to back, you take them one at a time and remove the closest model each time. Nothing to stop you putting the storm shield at the front of the unit and attempting to make the lascannon save first though, but it means he'll be vulnerable to massed small arms fire. On topic, I intend to run my jump assault squad the same way I always have...10 men with a thunder hammer. Simple, effective, and it never let me down in a single game of 5th, doubt it'll do worse in 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Not quite right with the lascannon sponging...if you have a unit with mixed armour (as in the case of the storm shield etc), instead of taking saves all at once and removing from front to back, you take them one at a time and remove the closest model each time. Nothing to stop you putting the storm shield at the front of the unit and attempting to make the lascannon save first though, but it means he'll be vulnerable to massed small arms fire. On topic, I intend to run my jump assault squad the same way I always have...10 men with a thunder hammer. Simple, effective, and it never let me down in a single game of 5th, doubt it'll do worse in 6th. Yeah, the idea in my OP was to have the priest first. With a 2+ look out sir you could allocate las cannon to the storm shield. Is this not correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Well, Fantasy has had challenges for a long long time. My Vampire Lords never struggled slaughtering empire swordsmen dualists who were mad enough to step up to the plate... Even back when champions were IC's and had magic items. The ONLY options I see being viable are PF, to splat a few regulars, or PS, to splat PF before he can splat a few regulars. A Marine with a PF/SS will not live to hit back against a Claw/Sword/Mace (thats not I1 right?) Captain/Reclusiarch/Sanguinor He just wont, he'll be splatted. Thats not to say challenging is bad, but dont expect win or survive. My charging blood dragon lord frequently killed the same poor champion 5 times over, but that saved 4 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Well, Fantasy has had challenges for a long long time.My Vampire Lords never struggled slaughtering empire swordsmen dualists who were mad enough to step up to the plate... Even back when champions were IC's and had magic items. The ONLY options I see being viable are PF, to splat a few regulars, or PS, to splat PF before he can splat a few regulars. A Marine with a PF/SS will not live to hit back against a Claw/Sword/Mace (thats not I1 right?) Captain/Reclusiarch/Sanguinor He just wont, he'll be splatted. Thats not to say challenging is bad, but dont expect win or survive. My charging blood dragon lord frequently killed the same poor champion 5 times over, but that saved 4 guys. Right, that last sentence is my point exactly. The enemy's 250p terminator lord will only do ONE wound, if you can challenge him with your sarge, and your sarge might even live since he has a storm shield. If your unit can win the combat (most likely with BA RAS and priest) you can win the combat by a lot since that 250p character doesn't get to swing at the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Flamers can't overwatch. Template weapons can not do snap shots. Almost as a joke I want to model a sergeant with lightning claw and powerfist as both are specialist weapons so you get the +1 attack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Well, Fantasy has had challenges for a long long time.My Vampire Lords never struggled slaughtering empire swordsmen dualists who were mad enough to step up to the plate... Even back when champions were IC's and had magic items. The ONLY options I see being viable are PF, to splat a few regulars, or PS, to splat PF before he can splat a few regulars. A Marine with a PF/SS will not live to hit back against a Claw/Sword/Mace (thats not I1 right?) Captain/Reclusiarch/Sanguinor He just wont, he'll be splatted. Thats not to say challenging is bad, but dont expect win or survive. My charging blood dragon lord frequently killed the same poor champion 5 times over, but that saved 4 guys. Right, that last sentence is my point exactly. The enemy's 250p terminator lord will only do ONE wound, if you can challenge him with your sarge, and your sarge might even live since he has a storm shield. If your unit can win the combat (most likely with BA RAS and priest) you can win the combat by a lot since that 250p character doesn't get to swing at the unit. But the Sarge is DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD He's either a 16pt DEAD model, or a 75pt DEAD model. I dont see the advantage in the dead 75pt over the dead 16pt Unless I'm missing something pretty important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Local black shirt told me that snap-fire templates did D3 auto-hits, was that incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzephalon Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Flamers can't overwatch. Template weapons can not do snap shots. Almost as a joke I want to model a sergeant with lightning claw and powerfist as both are specialist weapons so you get the +1 attack! Template weapons can't snap shot with the exception of overwatch. They are inflicting D3 auto hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadieau Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 My RAS do get into assault. If your Sgt. has a fist and no SS most of the time you will either die or not get use use your fist until you do accept the challange. Same for Chaplains, Librarians and you know, other second tier Characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbreakable Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I think a LC and melta bomb could be a good way to go for the sgt. 2/3 ap3 attacks at int with wound rerolls should be good for duels and you have the melta bomb for monstrous creatures and vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Flamers can't overwatch. Template weapons can not do snap shots. Almost as a joke I want to model a sergeant with lightning claw and powerfist as both are specialist weapons so you get the +1 attack! Template weapons can't snap shot with the exception of overwatch. They are inflicting D3 auto hits. Could you provide a page reference for that? I can't find that anywhere in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadieau Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 JamesI, page 52 under Wall of Death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Awesome. Silly me I looked for it under the Overwatch and snap shot rules not the template rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So, does this mean PS/LC and melta bomb (or even just our krak grenades) are the new standard, so we can get in at I and still damage walkers/vehicles/MC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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