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How to kit up RAS?


John_f

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How shold we kit up the RAS now? Too me it sounds it got a little nerfed. No plus on initiative when running with a priest, and the charge range in unrelaible at best. And you cant keep the meltas in tye from cause of the new wound allocation rules.

 

I usually run 2x10 RAS with jp and a priest and a libby. What I was thinking is running a priest with a bike up front and a serg with a storm shield further back. The priest has a 2 plus LOS and as long as you dont roll a 1 you cant allocate wounds to squad members. Small arms fire can be taken on the priest (T5 3+ armour 5+ FnP) or allocated to regular marines. Lascannons and plasma can go on the storm shield. And if you come up agains a nasty character, just challange with you serg and hope for the storm shield. Even if you loose the serg, the character wont swing and the unit!

 

And input on this?

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I was thinking about running a squad with Flamers now with the over watch rule. Get into a units face melt said face , then wait for them to charge and over watch melt face a second time. I think it would be great sitting on an objective, haven't tried it yet but it sounds awesome. I'm also thinking power fists with the combination of are out with grenades glancing stuff to death or a 5point melta bomb and challenges.
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I'm thinking of a few different setups for my sergeants...

 

1) Power Weapon - purely to strike before fists in challenges.

2) Fist, Plasma pistol - hopefully roll a 6 to hit with the pistol and kill off the enemy character first, then hide at the back until initiative 1, consolidate in and punch something.

3) Fist, Storm Shield - challenge enemy characters, hopefully stay alive whilst killing them at the same time.

4) Dual pistols - we can fire them both at the same time! More chance of rolling a 6 to hit and killing enemy characters. Keep him alive by refusing challenges and cower at the back.

 

I suspect I'll go for my own option 1 because I like to play aggressively and this allows me to make the first move. But play testing will tell which is the best option.

 

I don't play on my assault squads ever meeting 2+ armour save enemies because most of them will have AP3 weapons. I'll deal with them with my big guns.

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I was thinking about running a squad with Flamers now with the over watch rule. Get into a units face melt said face , then wait for them to charge and over watch melt face a second time. I think it would be great sitting on an objective, haven't tried it yet but it sounds awesome. I'm also thinking power fists with the combination of are out with grenades glancing stuff to death or a 5point melta bomb and challenges.
I was personally thinking about going 2x Plasma Pistols and a power sword on the Sarge. I don't have a rulebook yet, but I doubt that PPs will have meaningfully changed and are really a "best overall" weapon for hunting infantry and tanks.
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There is the benefit to the bike but you're doing it the wrong way round, you need the Librarian upfront to take small arms fire, then if there is a lascannon, you bounce it to the bike priest because he can't be instant killed and he still gets the 5+ fnp against the las cannon because its not instant kill (not double his toughness).
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I'm currently running mine as a unit of ten with 2 meltas, a fist and an infernus. I feel like it allows the unit to tackle just about anything. The fist isn't clearly the superior choice or anything, but I'm not interested in AP3 power weapons or I1 power axes so the fist is the only remaining option. I don't think a Biker Priest is really worth it in this case as majority Toughness makes him as easy to wound as anyone else in his unit and the enemy is allowed to choose the order that your unit takes wounds. This means that if he shoots you with bolters and plasmas and you have a Biker Priest up front he'll just force you to save against the bolters first and then plasma someone else once the Priest is dead. =(
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I think people may be too worried about challenges.

 

All of these wargear options get pricey fast. I don't think it is worth turning sergeants into point sinks for challenges that may or may not happen.

 

Give him a fist or an axe and call it a day.

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There is the benefit to the bike but you're doing it the wrong way round, you need the Librarian upfront to take small arms fire, then if there is a lascannon, you bounce it to the bike priest because he can't be instant killed and he still gets the 5+ fnp against the las cannon because its not instant kill (not double his toughness).

 

No, I would probably bounce it to the storm shield serg that has a 3+ invun. But I get the point.

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I think people may be too worried about challenges.

 

All of these wargear options get pricey fast. I don't think it is worth turning sergeants into point sinks for challenges that may or may not happen.

 

Give him a fist or an axe and call it a day.

 

Imagine JUST the storm shield. It's cheap, you can soak up plasma, las cannon and whatnot. You can LOS small arms fire to RAS on a 4+. You can accept challenges from terminator lords and probably survive. Even if you don't survive, that's hits not going on the unit ie only one wound to combat resolution.

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Not quite right with the lascannon sponging...if you have a unit with mixed armour (as in the case of the storm shield etc), instead of taking saves all at once and removing from front to back, you take them one at a time and remove the closest model each time. Nothing to stop you putting the storm shield at the front of the unit and attempting to make the lascannon save first though, but it means he'll be vulnerable to massed small arms fire.

 

On topic, I intend to run my jump assault squad the same way I always have...10 men with a thunder hammer. Simple, effective, and it never let me down in a single game of 5th, doubt it'll do worse in 6th.

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Not quite right with the lascannon sponging...if you have a unit with mixed armour (as in the case of the storm shield etc), instead of taking saves all at once and removing from front to back, you take them one at a time and remove the closest model each time. Nothing to stop you putting the storm shield at the front of the unit and attempting to make the lascannon save first though, but it means he'll be vulnerable to massed small arms fire.

 

On topic, I intend to run my jump assault squad the same way I always have...10 men with a thunder hammer. Simple, effective, and it never let me down in a single game of 5th, doubt it'll do worse in 6th.

 

Yeah, the idea in my OP was to have the priest first. With a 2+ look out sir you could allocate las cannon to the storm shield. Is this not correct?

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Well, Fantasy has had challenges for a long long time.

My Vampire Lords never struggled slaughtering empire swordsmen dualists who were mad enough to step up to the plate...

Even back when champions were IC's and had magic items.

 

The ONLY options I see being viable are PF, to splat a few regulars, or PS, to splat PF before he can splat a few regulars.

 

A Marine with a PF/SS will not live to hit back against a Claw/Sword/Mace (thats not I1 right?) Captain/Reclusiarch/Sanguinor

 

He just wont, he'll be splatted.

 

Thats not to say challenging is bad, but dont expect win or survive.

My charging blood dragon lord frequently killed the same poor champion 5 times over, but that saved 4 guys.

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Well, Fantasy has had challenges for a long long time.

My Vampire Lords never struggled slaughtering empire swordsmen dualists who were mad enough to step up to the plate...

Even back when champions were IC's and had magic items.

 

The ONLY options I see being viable are PF, to splat a few regulars, or PS, to splat PF before he can splat a few regulars.

 

A Marine with a PF/SS will not live to hit back against a Claw/Sword/Mace (thats not I1 right?) Captain/Reclusiarch/Sanguinor

 

He just wont, he'll be splatted.

 

Thats not to say challenging is bad, but dont expect win or survive.

My charging blood dragon lord frequently killed the same poor champion 5 times over, but that saved 4 guys.

 

Right, that last sentence is my point exactly. The enemy's 250p terminator lord will only do ONE wound, if you can challenge him with your sarge, and your sarge might even live since he has a storm shield. If your unit can win the combat (most likely with BA RAS and priest) you can win the combat by a lot since that 250p character doesn't get to swing at the unit.

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Flamers can't overwatch. Template weapons can not do snap shots.

 

Almost as a joke I want to model a sergeant with lightning claw and powerfist as both are specialist weapons so you get the +1 attack!

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Well, Fantasy has had challenges for a long long time.

My Vampire Lords never struggled slaughtering empire swordsmen dualists who were mad enough to step up to the plate...

Even back when champions were IC's and had magic items.

 

The ONLY options I see being viable are PF, to splat a few regulars, or PS, to splat PF before he can splat a few regulars.

 

A Marine with a PF/SS will not live to hit back against a Claw/Sword/Mace (thats not I1 right?) Captain/Reclusiarch/Sanguinor

 

He just wont, he'll be splatted.

 

Thats not to say challenging is bad, but dont expect win or survive.

My charging blood dragon lord frequently killed the same poor champion 5 times over, but that saved 4 guys.

 

Right, that last sentence is my point exactly. The enemy's 250p terminator lord will only do ONE wound, if you can challenge him with your sarge, and your sarge might even live since he has a storm shield. If your unit can win the combat (most likely with BA RAS and priest) you can win the combat by a lot since that 250p character doesn't get to swing at the unit.

 

But the Sarge is DEAD

DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD

He's either a 16pt DEAD model, or a 75pt DEAD model.

 

I dont see the advantage in the dead 75pt over the dead 16pt

 

Unless I'm missing something pretty important

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Flamers can't overwatch. Template weapons can not do snap shots.

 

Almost as a joke I want to model a sergeant with lightning claw and powerfist as both are specialist weapons so you get the +1 attack!

Template weapons can't snap shot with the exception of overwatch. They are inflicting D3 auto hits.

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My RAS do get into assault. If your Sgt. has a fist and no SS most of the time you will either die or not get use use your fist until you do accept the challange. Same for Chaplains, Librarians and you know, other second tier Characters.
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Flamers can't overwatch. Template weapons can not do snap shots.

 

Almost as a joke I want to model a sergeant with lightning claw and powerfist as both are specialist weapons so you get the +1 attack!

Template weapons can't snap shot with the exception of overwatch. They are inflicting D3 auto hits.

Could you provide a page reference for that? I can't find that anywhere in the book.

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