6th Issues that still need answering

[Gentlemanloser]

That haven't been covered by the FAQ.

 

Like my Pre Codex thread, I'll try to keep this one updated. Please feel free to add any issues! :P

 

Wargear

 

1: Daemonweapon: The Daemonweapon is a 2 Handed CCW. So it has an AP6. he Etherialblade upgrade states the Dameonweapon 'ignores armour saves'. Does this make the Daemonweapon AP3, AP2 or AP1? Does it stay as AP6, but doesn't allow Armour Saves? How does this upgrade work?

[boreas]

-Is the Nemesis Wardig Staff AP3 or AP4?

-Is the Nemesis Deamon Hammer AP2 or AP3?

[henrywalker]

id say that till its corrected i will simply ignore armor saves, that's what it says to do, that's what i'll do.

[Gentlemanloser]

Boreas, the NWS is AP3, is there any reason it wouldn't be? Same for the NDH being AP2. :P

[boreas]

Boreas, the NWS is AP3, is there any reason it wouldn't be? Same for the NDH being AP2. :cuss

 

Just for "official" clarification. There's already some claims that NDH is AP3. Since power staves are now AP4 (iirc), I'd want ours to be clarified. It's really minors things, nothing like the nerdrage storm that followed 5th ed FAQs :lol:

 

Phil

[Inquisitor Fox]

Our Codex specifies the NDH is treated as a Thunder hammer. Since Codex > rulebook, the NDH clearly uses the rules for a Thunder hammer (Str and AP). The warding staff and such do not have any such wording, they simply say "grants 2++ in close combat" or suchnot.. thus they are a force weapon with codex specific rules, which uses the default AP of 3.

 

However all of this is subject to change pending faqs.

[adamv6]

id say that till its corrected i will simply ignore armor saves, that's what it says to do, that's what i'll do.

 

Still needs to be answered for attacking vehicles... AP1 and AP2 make a big difference now :P

[Inquisitor Fox]

I just checked the FAQ.. it specifies: "Unless otherwise stated, all nemesis force weapons follow the rules for unusual force weapons"

 

This makes every Nemesis Force Weapon AP3 save two, which are clarified in their entries.

 

The Nemesis Daemon Hammer is stated that it follows the rules for Thunder Hammers. The Nemesis Doom Fist is stated to follow the rules for a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon.

 

Thus staves are AP3, halberds are AP3 +2 init, hammers are AP2 as per Thunder Hammer, and the doomfist does whatever it says DCCW now do :P

[Zeratil]

I just checked the FAQ.. it specifies: "Unless otherwise stated, all nemesis force weapons follow the rules for unusual force weapons"

 

This makes every Nemesis Force Weapon AP3 save two, which are clarified in their entries.

 

The Nemesis Daemon Hammer is stated that it follows the rules for Thunder Hammers. The Nemesis Doom Fist is stated to follow the rules for a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon.

 

Thus staves are AP3, halberds are AP3 +2 init, hammers are AP2 as per Thunder Hammer, and the doomfist does whatever it says DCCW now do ;)

 

This, the answers are fairly easy to establish by using 'Codex trumps Rulebook', until/unless V1.X of the FAQ changes anything.

 

As for Daemon weapons it seems they've been left out - but the ethereral upgrade would seem to me to make it AP6, ignoring armour saves. Very odd, but still playable.

[Sothalor]

This one occurred to me while viewing another thread.

 

The Vindicare Assassin's Shield Breaker round effect takes place "when a wound from this round is allocated to a model" (page 53). It goes on to say that "Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken."

 

How does this interact with a "Look Out, Sir!" save? Is the "Look Out, Sir!" save considered a "remaining save" for the purposes of the Shield Breaker special effect?

 

Example: I shoot at a Space Marine Captain with an Iron Halo (4+ invul) who is in a Tactical Squad. I successfully roll to wound, and allocate the wound to him. A member of his squad then pulls a successful "Look Out, Sir!" and takes the wound. What happens to the Shield Breaker effect? Do I still strip the Captain's Iron Halo benefit while the Tactical Marine takes the wound? Or does the Tac Marine also take the Shield Breaker effect?

[shortysl]

This one occurred to me while viewing another thread.

 

The Vindicare Assassin's Shield Breaker round effect takes place "when a wound from this round is allocated to a model" (page 53). It goes on to say that "Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken."

 

How does this interact with a "Look Out, Sir!" save? Is the "Look Out, Sir!" save considered a "remaining save" for the purposes of the Shield Breaker special effect?

 

Example: I shoot at a Space Marine Captain with an Iron Halo (4+ invul) who is in a Tactical Squad. I successfully roll to wound, and allocate the wound to him. A member of his squad then pulls a successful "Look Out, Sir!" and takes the wound. What happens to the Shield Breaker effect? Do I still strip the Captain's Iron Halo benefit while the Tactical Marine takes the wound? Or does the Tac Marine also take the Shield Breaker effect?

 

As much as I'd love to say the RAW state that the Captain loses his Iron Halo, I'm personally more of a spirit of the rules type player. It makes sense to me that if the Tactical Marine intercepts the bullet with his face then the Captain really shouldn't lose his Iron Halo. Not unless Captain and Battle Brother were hugging at the time, in which case it's: bullet shorts out shield and then kills Marine. Captain looks on shocked as Marine slides down his body, then sinks to his knees shouting "nooooooooooo" with his hands in the air.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I think that's definitely the way the rules should be interpreted, with an accompanying model. In fact, that's going in my sig.

[confused_gordy]

The end of the look out sir rule states it is a reallocation. So i think we are covered on the shield breaker.

[DarthOvious]

-Is the Nemesis Wardig Staff AP3 or AP4?

 

AP3, because the FAQ states to use the unusaul force weapons rule unless otherwise stated.

 

 

-Is the Nemesis Deamon Hammer AP2 or AP3?

 

AP2 because our rulebook has an exception that says it is treated like a thunderhammer. We get the thunderhammer rules in addition to the force weapon rules as our codex states, so we get both profiles really and AP 2 trumps the AP3, so we would use that.

[boreas]

-Is the Nemesis Wardig Staff AP3 or AP4?

 

AP3, because the FAQ states to use the unusaul force weapons rule unless otherwise stated.

 

 

-Is the Nemesis Deamon Hammer AP2 or AP3?

 

AP2 because our rulebook has an exception that says it is treated like a thunderhammer. We get the thunderhammer rules in addition to the force weapon rules as our codex states, so we get both profiles really and AP 2 trumps the AP3, so we would use that.

 

In that sense, I feel that the unusual force weapon rules is not very well written. While I understand the RAW of it (and FAQ interpretation), I really think that "unusual force weapons" was meant initially for weapons that weren't staves, swords or hammers. I just find it weird, in a sense, that a Librarian' Force staff is St+2, AP4, concussive while ours is St: as user, AP3, save 2++ in CC. Oh well.

 

 

So, next thing... There should be a FAQ confirmation about a NDK with Fist and Sword. Can he benefit from both when attacking, or must he choose. Once again, I understand the RAW, but I've got a feeling that this will be debated in game...

[RedemptionNL]

As you always have to choose which weapon to attack with, I doubt you could claim both the bonuses of both weapons at the same time. The rulebook even states you cannot mix and match abilities of several different Melee weapons under the 'More than one weapon' entry.

[Valerian]

Hmm. I 'd say that this says a lot about the quality of the new 6e rules, combined with the updated FAQ/Errata/Amendments, when we can go for several days with this open thread and there aren't really any big issue, problems, or concerns that need to be addressed.

 

Well done, GW. Finally.

 

Valerian

[tksolway]

This one occurred to me while viewing another thread.

 

The Vindicare Assassin's Shield Breaker round effect takes place "when a wound from this round is allocated to a model" (page 53). It goes on to say that "Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken."

 

How does this interact with a "Look Out, Sir!" save? Is the "Look Out, Sir!" save considered a "remaining save" for the purposes of the Shield Breaker special effect?

 

Example: I shoot at a Space Marine Captain with an Iron Halo (4+ invul) who is in a Tactical Squad. I successfully roll to wound, and allocate the wound to him. A member of his squad then pulls a successful "Look Out, Sir!" and takes the wound. What happens to the Shield Breaker effect? Do I still strip the Captain's Iron Halo benefit while the Tactical Marine takes the wound? Or does the Tac Marine also take the Shield Breaker effect?

 

As much as I'd love to say the RAW state that the Captain loses his Iron Halo, I'm personally more of a spirit of the rules type player. It makes sense to me that if the Tactical Marine intercepts the bullet with his face then the Captain really shouldn't lose his Iron Halo. Not unless Captain and Battle Brother were hugging at the time, in which case it's: bullet shorts out shield and then kills Marine. Captain looks on shocked as Marine slides down his body, then sinks to his knees shouting "nooooooooooo" with his hands in the air.

 

O love this entire post, with reply LOL

[thade]

That's actually really really sad...because the marine dove in the way to save *the Iron Halo* thinking he was saving the Captain's life. But the Captain's life wasn't in any danger...

 

In some cases holy wargear is extremely important, even worth dying for...but...that's just an Iron Halo. They're not THAT rare. :)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

They are in 4th. :( Stupid one per army relic rules...

[BrotherWasted]

Unusual Force Weapons rule is fine. It simply means "the weapon is AP3 and uses the rules in its parent Codex".

 

So:

 

Swords don't change, and are AP3.

Halberds are not treated like Force Axes; we keep the +2I (Codex > BRB), strike at regular Strength and are AP3.

Falchions don't change and are AP3.

Daemonhammers are AP2, because they explicitly follow BRB Thunderhammer rules.

Staves follow "Force Weapon" rules, so we go by the new BRB and treat them like a Force Staff, making them AP4.

[shortysl]

Unusual Force Weapons rule is fine. It simply means "the weapon is AP3 and uses the rules in its parent Codex".

 

Staves follow "Force Weapon" rules, so we go by the new BRB and treat them like a Force Staff, making them AP4.

 

No they don't, they are Nemesis Force Weapons (i.e Unusual Force Weapons) and are therefore treated as a Melee weapon with an AP of 3. This is because they have their own unique rules (Daemonbane), meaning they DO NOT follow the rules for Force Staves.

[Valerian]

Unusual Force Weapons rule is fine. It simply means "the weapon is AP3 and uses the rules in its parent Codex".

 

So:

 

Swords don't change, and are AP3.

Halberds are not treated like Force Axes; we keep the +2I (Codex > BRB), strike at regular Strength and are AP3.

Falchions don't change and are AP3.

Daemonhammers are AP2, because they explicitly follow BRB Thunderhammer rules.

Staves follow "Force Weapon" rules, so we go by the new BRB and treat them like a Force Staff, making them AP4.

 

Agree with all but the last one. A Nemesis Warding Stave is definitely not a Force Staff, so it still goes at user's Strength, give the 2++ Invulnerable Save, and now counts as AP3, in accordance with the Unusual Force Weapons rule.

[BrotherWasted]

Yup, I was confusing the Nemesis Force Staff with that of non-GK libbies.