6th Ed psychic powers

[DarkGuard]

So we're two days into 6th Ed, and yes, I'm asking the question, psychic disciplines. Or rather, tactics around them etc.

 

Now obviously they're random, so that's a factor in themselves, but I feel that with a bit of luck we can have some good power combinations.

 

For example, Biomancy might a good power. It can make the Librarian better in combat, but with some good rolls you get access to awesome powers like Endurance, granting FnP, regen and Relentless to a unit within 24". Leech Life is also a very nasty ranged power that can help keep psykers alive. Haemorrhage seems a bit random to me though. The best part of this discipline is that all powers are Warp Charge (WC) 1, meaning that he'll be able to use all powers in that discipline.

 

Pyromancy seemed to be that it'd be all about shooting and combat, but to be honest it's combat power isn't bad, while it has a fantastic ranged power and a brilliant utility power. Fire Shield is a great power to put on a frontline unit, giving them a 4+ cover against most weapons and a Purifier-esque combat ability. Fiery Form is Might plus an Iron Halo, while Spontaneous Combustion seems very reliable and will likely cause a bit of damage, while hopefully knocking out a specialist or two. Not a bad power, although I think you'll rely more on good dice rolls here for generating the powers. Molten Beam is like Blood Lance, but WC2 so only the Epistolary and Tiggy will get much use out of it.

 

And then Telekinesis, which I think is the weakest there. If we want Gate or Telekine Dome we might as well get Gate and Force Dome from our own powers, which we're guaranteed to get, same with Vortex, which is effectively WC1 in our Codex. Conjuration Mechanicum isn't much, while Crush is the only good power in there IMO that we don't already have, although Assail, the Primaris power, isn't too bad.

 

And then Telepathy, I really like this one because of WC2 powers, and could be tempted to upgrade to Epistolary to take advantage of Invisibility or Hallucination, which are WC2. But the WC1 powers are awesome. The Primaris power is passable, and not a bad fall back option, while Dominate is C:BA's Shackle Soul. Mental Fortitude isn't really need in Marines, Puppet Master seems a bit of a gimmick, it'll be funny when you make the meltagun kill the Sergeant, but it won't happen all the time. Terrify though seems good. So not too great for Mastery Level (ML) 1 psykers, but a very good choice for ML 2 powers.

 

So I reckon if we do change our powers (which means losing Null Zone :D), that ML1 psykers should pick Biomancy and Pyromancy, as out of those disciplines they have the better powers, for both the psyker and the army. If taking an Epistolary though then Telepathy might be worth choosing for the WC2 powers.

 

Of course, this is two days in, and others will think differently and opinions may change the more we game, so what do you guys think about the powers so far? How will they effect our tactics, and will you be likely to swap out a guaranteed Null Zone for some of these?

 

I also apologize that I've written this very weighted towards to C:SM, they are the army I know the most. Other PA Codices please do join in as well though, especially those of you with access to Divination, which IMO is one of the best disciplines.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I was tempted, DG, to start asking around about putting together an Initial Thoughts on Psychic Powers document but you beat me to it!

 

 

For C:SM, I think that Biomancy is going to be our go-to discipline. THey're all WC1 so a non-Epistolary can cast everything, and it has several powers that, on first inspection at least, seem that they'll help us stand up to some of the more overpowering things in new codices. Endurance and Iron Arm specifically seem like they'll give us really good benefits; Iron Arm will turn our Librarians into beasts capable of taking on a DP or one-on-one. Endurance in the meantime can keep a key unit -- like Termies or Honor Guard -- alive, or can put on Devastators to take advantage of Relentless. Imagine podding a quad-melta Dev squad into the enemy backfield and slapping Endurance on them. FnP and Relentless? Yes please.

 

On the Chaos side of the house -- which I'm going to flip back to from my Iron Hands, I think, in preparation for their new 'dex -- I think that Pyromancy is going to be the most popular. Fiery Form on a power axe-wielding Sorceror will turn them into a CC monster at S7 AP2. Fire Shield will provide better saves against plasma and lascannons for our newly-empowered Termies to get to their assault targets with greater numbers, and Sunburst, as a nova, will be awesome for a DP to pop right before he charges an enemy unit thanks to the Blind effect.

 

That being said, I personally am going to go with Telepathy for my Alpha Legion. The primary reason is that it seems awesomely fluffy, or perhaps fluffily awesome. Dominate and Puppet Master are gimmicky powers that provide an element of surprise and confusion for the enemy; imagine Puppeteering a multimelta carrier into popping a Land Raider, or a plasma cannon into a unit of infantry. Terrify will work well as a pre-assault power since it makes the target Fear all enemies and might even stave off charges by Death Stars since it provokes an immediate morale check. The big winner in my mind though is Invisibility, since it grants a 4+ cover when in the open and a 2+ cover in trees or ruins; the Weapon Skill 1 for enemies on the charge is an added bonus. Plus, Psychic Shriek is ok versus Marines -- we'll get two or three models on average -- but against low-Ld squads like orks, we'll be butchering them like sheep!

[DarkGuard]

I was tempted, DG, to start asking around about putting together an Initial Thoughts on Psychic Powers document but you beat me to it!

 

 

For C:SM, I think that Biomancy is going to be our go-to discipline. THey're all WC1 so a non-Epistolary can cast everything, and it has several powers that, on first inspection at least, seem that they'll help us stand up to some of the more overpowering things in new codices. Endurance and Iron Arm specifically seem like they'll give us really good benefits; Iron Arm will turn our Librarians into beasts capable of taking on a DP or one-on-one. Endurance in the meantime can keep a key unit -- like Termies or Honor Guard -- alive, or can put on Devastators to take advantage of Relentless. Imagine podding a quad-melta Dev squad into the enemy backfield and slapping Endurance on them. FnP and Relentless? Yes please.

 

On the Chaos side of the house -- which I'm going to flip back to from my Iron Hands, I think, in preparation for their new 'dex -- I think that Pyromancy is going to be the most popular. Fiery Form on a power axe-wielding Sorceror will turn them into a CC monster at S7 AP2. Fire Shield will provide better saves against plasma and lascannons for our newly-empowered Termies to get to their assault targets with greater numbers, and Sunburst, as a nova, will be awesome for a DP to pop right before he charges an enemy unit thanks to the Blind effect.

 

Well I had been meaning to do an indepth C:SM Librarian Tactica, then 6th Ed was getting close and psychic disciplines "announced" so decided not to. But I may use this thread as a bit of a kick starter there.

 

I think Biomancy in general for most armies is a good shout, there's some awesome powers in there, and FnP Honour Guard will just be filth! But Pyromancy could still be handy for Marines, Fire Shield will be handy, especially when the Rhinos are being popped.

 

Also, it's occured to me that more WC2 powers doesn't mean it's a bad place for a ML1 psyker to be. If you roll a WC2 power with a ML1 psyker you re-roll it, which furthers the chance of you getting a power you want. Pyromancy has 3 fantastic powers IMO, so you've got a 1/2 of getting one of them, and a 1/3 chance of a re-roll if you don't. Of course, there needs to be good WC1 powers for this to work, and I don't really think Telepathy has many good WC1 powers, and Telekinesis doesn't seem that great to me.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Yeah finishing Psychic powers 101 seemed like a bit of a pointless use of my time with 6th ed on the horizon.....I wanted to have finished it a while ago, but spending time on here is becoming harder! So I might have to scrap it for now....

 

 

(And as i've not had chance to look at the new edition rules at all im going to make the assumption that my other 101 tactica will need a bit of an overhaul as well...)

 

 

I would however like to pose this question: How does the new psychic powers compare with these new 'warlord' powers that I believe captains and their ilk get? Would it be a tough decision between the two, or is this more one sided?

 

 

You always offer good advice and reasoning DarkGuard, I'll be sure to keep my ear to this thread

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I would however like to pose this question: How does the new psychic powers compare with these new 'warlord' powers that I believe captains and their ilk get? Would it be a tough decision between the two, or is this more one sided?

 

The thing is, though, is that the two aren't mutually exclusive. A Libby/Sorc can be your Warlord; the Warlord appellation is simply a reinvention of how, back in 3rd Edition, you had to nominate a General for the army -- the obvious difference being that the Warlords have the additional effects now. The thing that kills me about both the new psychic powers and the Warlord tables is that they are random, which means that you can't plan on their potentially game-changing effects. Some of them are straight utility that will matter no matter what -- making the Warlord a scoring unit, for instance -- but there's another one that grants a bonus if you're fighting in your own deployment zone. If your Warlord is, say, an Ethereal, then it's not bad. If it's a Daemon Prince, you probably won't get much out of it. I'd like them both better if you could pay points and choose the powers/abilities, but that's just how the cookie crumbles.

[DarkGuard]

The Warlord table is more of a bonus though. You pick a table that suits the current situation but you don't plan on it.

 

The psyker table being random is a problem though, but I like it a bit. You have to decide to invest powers into one discipline if you want a power there, or be prepared to get powers you don't want if you spread. It's tactical, and in a way it's fun because of that.

[DerekLee688]

The Warlord table is more of a bonus though. You pick a table that suits the current situation but you don't plan on it.

 

The psyker table being random is a problem though, but I like it a bit. You have to decide to invest powers into one discipline if you want a power there, or be prepared to get powers you don't want if you spread. It's tactical, and in a way it's fun because of that.

 

 

That sounds about as much fun as eating cupcakes from chaos cultists.

 

How do you deal with having random powers being chosen? Is your psyker's order wasted if you don't use the power? Can I just shoot or chop if the power doesn't help at all or does it get used no matter what?

[DarkGuard]

If your psyker can't use the power because it requires more Warp Charges than his Mastery Level allows you re-roll it.

 

Also, you roll them one at a time, and if you get a power you don't like you can swap it for the Primaris Power, which are all generally solid.

 

So yes, there will be some games where you don't get a power you want, and some where you get all the powers you want. The tactical decision here is whether to pick a discipline that has a power you want, but the other 5 you're not so keen on in the hope of getting that power, or whether to pick a discipline that has quite a few good powers, so if you don't roll the one you want you still have a good one.

 

It also may make Epistolary more worth it, as things like Molten Beam, Invisibility and Hallucination are very powerful but need two Warp Charges, meaning you need a Mastery Level 2 or higher psyker to cast them.

 

In fact, I was wondering who would be upgrading their Librarians to Epistolaries.

[Koremu]

Anyone else a little frustrated that Tigurius, who canonically has high levels of prescient ability, can't choose to have those powers?

[DerekLee688]

Epistolaries seem like a more expensive way to get something I don't want. Is there only one slot for Primaris power or is there a way of upgrading to more?

 

My fear is that I'm getting ready to make the charge, am taking the charge, or shooting. How can random power + only one Primaris power going to make me able to relyably help with any one of those? Shooting powers can't help in either of assaults and assault powers won't help in shooting.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is; Am I going to have to specalize/intend my librarian to either shoot or assault/squad buff if I generally want a 100% chance of my back up power to make a difference in a given turn?

 

Oh, and I do not have the rule book either. I'm still comming to grips with what alot of these rules mean.

[Captain Idaho]

Anyone else a little frustrated that Tigurius, who canonically has high levels of prescient ability, can't choose to have those powers?

 

Yep, it annoyed me a little since it was a massive missed opportunity to represent the back ground nicely.

 

I been thinking that Machine Curse and Nullzone are pretty much the powers of choice for me and Librarian. Essentially, he can strip a Hull Point from a vehicle on a successful hit (at BS4). Nullzone is the usual coolness we all know and love.

[DarkGuard]

Epistolaries seem like a more expensive way to get something I don't want. Is there only one slot for Primaris power or is there a way of upgrading to more?

 

My fear is that I'm getting ready to make the charge, am taking the charge, or shooting. How can random power + only one Primaris power going to make me able to relyably help with any one of those? Shooting powers can't help in either of assaults and assault powers won't help in shooting.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is; Am I going to have to specalize/intend my librarian to either shoot or assault/squad buff if I generally want a 100% chance of my back up power to make a difference in a given turn?

 

Oh, and I do not have the rule book either. I'm still comming to grips with what alot of these rules mean.

 

I'd highly suggest getting the BGB as soon as you can then, it'll help in lot in tactics discussion etc.

 

With psychic powers, they're randomly generated at the beginning of the game and don't change during. If you get a power you don't want, you can swap it for the Primaris Power, which counts towards your power total.

[Lagrath]

Before the release, I'd surmised from the leaked rules that Divination would be the best table of powers (5/6 are amazing on telepathy, but require level 2 which I don't run).

 

Fortunately, my DIY uses C:SW and they have access to Divination and great psykers aka Rune Priests. They also have access to awesome troops that really benefit from support spells: full grey hunter squads. I can now play in 6th the way I tried to play in 5th without much luck: using full-size troops choices as aggressive mid-field units that lay down heavy fire with rapid fire guns and dance back and forth from the enemy lines thanks to pre-measuring.

 

The Divination true is SO helpful for these units. I bring 2-3 rune priests and attach them to 3 squads of Grey Hunters with 2x plasma guns each. Hit an enemy unit at the edge of their lines 24" away with Misfortune, then give your units Prescience if you're shooting at 2+, 3+, or 4+ armor and Perfect Timing versus things that don't get saves versus bolters. 6 plasma guns and 24 bolters a turn on a unit that has to re-roll ALL armor saves, and then some shooting re-rolls mixed in there?

 

Here's how good Grey Hunters with Divination is: On Sunday I played versus my friend who was one morale check away from taking 1st place at the 160-person War Games Con GT with his beard 30-terminator Grey Knights army, and over 5 turns I was actually fighting on even ground in shooting and assault in the attrition battle versus the wave of Str 5 stormbolter shots and relentless Psycannon spam.

 

I really want to make lists that have at least 3 rune priests each with Priescience as one of their power...then in the first turn I can make my 3 long-fang units re-roll all hits before moving my line of grey hunters forward...

 

PS

I will say that telepathy is kinda bad but the basic power (psychic shriek) packs a hell of a mean punch.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I must say, Biomancy in general, and Enfeeble specifically, is awesome. The ability to slow down big assault units, and make them have a much harder time hitting you, is almost impossible to overstate. It means your bolters are Instant Deathing Eldar and Dark Eldar, and that they're wounding you on sixes. When I was trying it out in the one game, it was absolutely incredible.

[DarkGuard]

Thanks for feeding back on Divination Lagrath, I know I was quite upset to hear my Marines wouldn't be able to use it. Everything single spell in there is just so useful, if Marines could take it I would be thinking of using an Epistolary. :)

 

CMID, I just saw one of my friends at my local GW use Enfeeble to butcher a 30 strong Ork unit. The shooting from one Tactical squad (flamer and ML plus mass boltguns) took over half out, including the Nob who was at the front, while some Scouts then charged from behind and finished them off. They needed 6s to even hurt the Scouts, it was quite painful to watch.

 

I myself managed to roll Warp Speed and Haemorrhage today against Guard, so was quite pleased with that. To be honest I could have done better with Warp Speed, as after rolling an extra 3 I and A I then rolled very poorly in a challenge, but still came out on top in the second one. Haemorrhage actually surpassed my expectations, accounting for nearly 10 Guardsmen and a wound from the Lord Commissar, while I sniped a meltagun with it as well. Against Guard it's actually quite nasty. And just think of what an ML2 psyker with Enfeeble and Haemorrhage could do!

 

EDIT: also, I'm not too convinced by Psychic Shriek. It's very close to some Nid powers I never used. Although I think they may have been 2D6 instead of 3D6, so worth a try maybe.

[Lagrath]

The good thing about C:SM (and why I am still debating allying SM to my SW army instead of just bringing lots of rune priests and grey hunters) is that Null Zone is AMAZING when you combine it with mass grey hunter plasma-gun/divination fire. There's now no way to block Null Zone other than Eldar farseers, Rune Priests, and Shadow in the Warp.

 

edit: well and wolf tail talismen...

[DarkGuard]

And the best thing about the Psychic Disciplines is that you can trade out Null Zone if it won't have any effect against the army you face, like mass Nids for example. ;)

 

Although, I am wondering if some of the Libby SCs who weren't being used may become more popular. Tiggy is now 230pts, has some nice special rules and can grab 3 psychic discipline powers. He's still quite fragile though, especially when compared to a similar costed GK Libby. ;)

[Mezkh]

Best thing is to ally a Blood Angels Epistolary with Divination, those powers are too useful. As a bonus, you can take some Death Company shock troops or a scoring Assault squad with special weapon options.

[DarkGuard]

Best thing is to ally a Blood Angels Epistolary with Divination, those powers are too useful. As a bonus, you can take some Death Company shock troops or a scoring Assault squad with special weapon options.

 

You know I was saying that to my friend yesterday. Paint them my Chapter's colours, just because I want them to look the same, then counts as Ally the BA Libby. All the Divination powers are very useful, so it'd be good, and scoring Assault squads are always handy. It's certainly something I will be looking into soon.

[Panda_]

Best thing is to ally a Blood Angels Epistolary with Divination, those powers are too useful. As a bonus, you can take some Death Company shock troops or a scoring Assault squad with special weapon options.

And one of those eyesome Fast combi Preds, or even one more Stengard unit.

[Tangamarine]

Oh yes, I'm starting to love the sound of that, sounds like it could be a very good combination with my shooty list.

 

Having rerolls on sternguard will simply be wonderful

[Mezkh]

Best thing is to ally a Blood Angels Epistolary with Divination, those powers are too useful. As a bonus, you can take some Death Company shock troops or a scoring Assault squad with special weapon options.

And one of those eyesome Fast combi Preds, or even one more Stengard unit.

 

Don't forget the Stormraven :blush:

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

I heard from another player that the physic hood has the AOE distance reduced from 24" to 12" is this correct?

I have not looked in depth at the psychic rules yet.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

It's actually 6" radius, if I remember correctly.

[Captain Idaho]

Gvien the random nature of the Psychic power tables it seems to me they are more valuable the higher the Pscyhic Mastery level. Biomancy would be amazing if you can get hold of certain powers (e.g. reducing toughness values etc), but the odds are against you unless you have a decent Mastery Level and then stand a good chance of obtaining one of the better powers in the list.

 

Unless you have access to Divination, which is by far the best table yet for some reason denied to the weast Space Marine Codex but available to the other more powerful Marine Codex books. Go figure...