DarkGuard Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Biomancy isn't too bad for a low level psyker. It's got a couple of personal augments but you still have a chance 1/3 chance of getting either Enfeeble or Endurance, which are pretty awesome. But you are right, higher ML means more rolls on the table. Therefore the ML3 Grey Knight Librarian may have just got more popular, especially with Divination being outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've been looking studying the Psychic powers table and I must say Divinition is head and shoulders about the rest of my army! However, Biomancy is pretty good for Marines. After a bit of time has gone by, has anyone got any anecdotes on using Psyker powers? I'm pretty keen on using the using some powers, but I don't know if Nullzone and Machine Curse are too good to give up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroknight Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 On a related note... Do units get a "Deny the witch" save against nullzone? in 5th nothing could block it, but now it seems that deny the witch works on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 On a related note... Do units get a "Deny the witch" save against nullzone? in 5th nothing could block it, but now it seems that deny the witch works on everything. You need to re-read the Deny the Witch rule. The answer to your question is No. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 On a related note... Do units get a "Deny the witch" save against nullzone? in 5th nothing could block it, but now it seems that deny the witch works on everything. You need to re-read the Deny the Witch rule. The answer to your question is No. :devil: To elucidate, Deny the Witch only works when a power targets an enemy unit. Null Zone doesn't specifically target anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 On a related note... Do units get a "Deny the witch" save against nullzone? in 5th nothing could block it, but now it seems that deny the witch works on everything. You need to re-read the Deny the Witch rule. The answer to your question is No. :) To elucidate, Deny the Witch only works when a power targets an enemy unit. Null Zone doesn't specifically target anything. I would say you're incorrect, Null Zone targets all enemy units within 24", so every unit affected would be able to use Deny The Witch to nullify it's effect on them as per the multiple target rules for Deny The Witch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Divination is pretty good, because a good number of those powers are from the Eldar codex. So now everyone can do Eldar shenanigans! I'm not sure the random nature of the powers is a massive problem. Each discipline seems to have a general focus in one area, so if you've got any idea for how you want to use your psyker you can specialise on one discipline. He might do the task in slightly different ways, but he shouldn't be useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Divination is pretty good, because a good number of those powers are from the Eldar codex. So now everyone can do Eldar shenanigans! Except us Space Marines players unless we fork out a whole bunch of points on Allies to ruin our theme and play dirty to get the best of both worlds! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroknight Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 You need to re-read the Deny the Witch rule. The answer to your question is No. :) I re-read both null zone and Deny the witch and think you are correct by the RAW. Although it might be harder to convince an opponent of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 On a related note... Do units get a "Deny the witch" save against nullzone? in 5th nothing could block it, but now it seems that deny the witch works on everything. You need to re-read the Deny the Witch rule. The answer to your question is No. :rolleyes: To elucidate, Deny the Witch only works when a power targets an enemy unit. Null Zone doesn't specifically target anything. I would say you're incorrect, Null Zone targets all enemy units within 24", so every unit affected would be able to use Deny The Witch to nullify it's effect on them as per the multiple target rules for Deny The Witch. Yes, but the power description doesn't say anything about targeting enemies; that's why it never set off the Aegis when using it against GKs. If anything, it targets the Librarian since the range is drawn from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 The Grey Knight Librarian with ML 3 suddenly became attractive to me because of just how awesome the Divination table is. While I think some of the other powers available are decent enough if you can manage to get them, almost all of the Divination powers are essentially game changers for GKs. Add on the fact that we are getting half of the divination table and have 3 warp charge points, and I think this 200 point HQ suddenly became worth it. I'm starting to use a Librarian escorted by 5 paladins, and what was essentially Guide, super null zone, and super Force Dome for the launch game really sold the Divination table for me. I might try the other tables for now, but Divination will probably remain my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm considering a TDA Epistolary with force axe and storm shield, toting Biomancy. Iron Arm, Endurance, and Warp Speed all turn him into a Challenge-winning monster, and even Enfeeble helps out with its debuffs on the enemy. Joined to, say, Tac Termies with Lysander, that's a giant ball of points that will also eat just about anything alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Ally with DA if you want divination and still be power armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Greetings Battle Brothers, I plan to play a list from C:SM soon and I'd like to know what's the best discipline for a SM Librarian with a Mastery Level 2. Biomancy seems very alluring but even the other disciplines available to C:SM seem to have interesting powers. What do you think about it? Thanks for your assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroknight Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Excluding the divination discipline which is the most powerful and not available to C:SM…Biomancy is the generally most consistently useful (for us). While all the disciplines have decent powers, none of the biomancy powers are really a waste (unlike the other disciplines which have a few less than useful powers.) Since you can choose powers from different disciplines, it might be better to pick 1 power from biomancy and 1 power from another discipline. From my own understanding of the rules, it seems as if you choose and roll for your powers one at a time. So it should be possible to choose 1 power from biomancy, and choose your second discipline depending on what you rolled for your first power. When casting 2 powers a turn, I find it better to not have 2 witchfire (shooting) powers since you can only cast 1 witchfire per turn. Usually its best to have at least 1 blessing or malediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 All of the disciplines to which Librarians have access are pretty good. I'd echo Pyroknight's sentiments that you should split your choices based on the buildout of your Librarian and the rest of your army. I'm personally a fan of Telepathy. There's a lot of fun to be had in messing with your opponent's army with a Telepathy power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I like Biomancy, personally. The combat boosting powers like Iron Arm are, in my mind, only really awesome if you've got a Libby kitted out for serious fighting (ie, TDA, force axe, and shield), but the rest are good shooting or utility powers. Endurance, specifically, is probably my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubix41 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 All of the disciplines to which Librarians have access are pretty good. I'd echo Pyroknight's sentiments that you should split your choices based on the buildout of your Librarian and the rest of your army. I'm personally a fan of Telepathy. There's a lot of fun to be had in messing with your opponent's army with a Telepathy power. For assault/biker/speeder armies, one power in Telepathy makes me grin: Invisibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Very interesting points Battle Brothers, I too believe Biomancy and Telepathy are the best choices. My Librarian is equiped with TDA, Storm Shield and Force Axe so I think Biomancy can augment significantly his combat prowess. Telepathy has interesitng powers but one of them is not very useful on ATSKNF models; another, forcing your opponent to take a LD test before performing any action, can be easily countered by high LD models. Biomancy's two shooting powers are AP2 ones so if we get a shooting attack it's still a useful one. The blessings are nice. Rolling on both charts could be an option but you reduce the chances to get the powers you need more among the given discipline. I could try the various options: Play one match with Biomancy, the next one with Telepathy and mixing disciplines in the third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I've used biomancy, pretty good choice. Nothing wrong with Null Zone and Avenger though... You notice there is nothing like Null zone in the deck of spells? Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 You notice there is nothing like Null zone in the deck of spells? Interesting.... Misfortune is in the Divination discipline and forces erolls of ALL successful saves, not just Invulnerables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 My Librarian is equiped with TDA, Storm Shield and Force Axe so I think Biomancy can augment significantly his combat prowess. I'm a fan of Biomancy generally, and particularly for Librarians who are going to be in the thick of it. I was lucky enough to roll Enfeeble recently: I adore that power :) When I was considering disciplines, I felt that Biomancy had almost no powers I would not be happy to roll. Given that, it was the best option for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 My Librarian is equiped with TDA, Storm Shield and Force Axe so I think Biomancy can augment significantly his combat prowess. I'm a fan of Biomancy generally, and particularly for Librarians who are going to be in the thick of it. I was lucky enough to roll Enfeeble recently: I adore that power :) When I was considering disciplines, I felt that Biomancy had almost no powers I would not be happy to roll. Given that, it was the best option for me. Perhaps that power, I think it's called hemorrhage, that forces a model in the target unit to take a T check or suffer a wound with no armour or cover saves. If you are playing against MEQ they will fail 1 check every 3 (only on 5 and 6). If you kill a model you have to choose another model, still not as useful as the others but not completely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Search is your friend, as there's already a two page thread on this on the second page. So I've just merged the two threads together to keep everything in one place. I do really like this topic, and will weight in with some more updated opinions hopefully tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Search is your friend, as there's already a two page thread on this on the second page. So I've just merged the two threads together to keep everything in one place. I do really like this topic, and will weight in with some more updated opinions hopefully tomorrow. I looked at the first two pages and I missed it. It was not my intendion to double similar topic. Sorry for the inconvenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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