Terminator Wolfwing viable in 6th edition

[narf]

No one using saga of hunter on WGBL with WG place them all in land raider and assault as soon as they come ,you can add Ragnar ,or Logan too? :)

 

 

Alas whilst you can assault out of a landraider, there is no rule allowing wolves to assault after outflanking, so if you come on as resevers your still playing patty cake with the land raiders interior for a turn

[Jonny Wolf]

No one using saga of hunter on WGBL with WG place them all in land raider and assault as soon as they come ,you can add Ragnar ,or Logan too? :P

 

 

Alas whilst you can assault out of a landraider, there is no rule allowing wolves to assault after outflanking, so if you come on as resevers your still playing patty cake with the land raiders interior for a turn

 

That's correct. The only units that I know of (there could be more) that can still assault after coming in on reserves are Vanguard Vets and Vulcha Squad (Orks).

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I think with the reworking of the outflanking ability, Saga of the Hunter has become even less appealing. Plus adding a LR is only going to hike up your points, taking away from your already expensive packs.

 

End of Line

[whiteridder]

Wolf guard are characters, and they still be charachters if they become pack leaders. Somedays ago I saw and topic here Q and A space wolves, and I emailed Gamesworks shop hobby team service and got this back

 

Good Afternoon Sake

 

 

Thanks for the email about rules clarifications. Yes all this is true for the Space Wolves. What are you looking at running in your army? If you have any other questions please contact us again.

 

 

 

--

 

Cheers Mitch

 

The Games Workshop Hobby Service Team

 

 

 

On 10 July 2012 22:34, whiteridder wrote:

 

Hello,

 

first at all, greeting from the Netherlands. I just saw a topic on www.bolterandchainsword.com. Someone had emailed you and you replyed him this:

 

"Thanks for the email about Space Wolves. It's great to hear that you are enjoying Warhammer 40'000 6th edition.For the rules questions that you have asked below we would be happy to Answer these.

 

Do Wolf guard that are in there own pack (not pack leaders) count as characters?

Yes, All of your Wolf guard will get precision strike and look out sir when they are in there unit.

 

 

Do lone wolves count as characters?

Yes, The character listing for this is listed on page 411 of the Warhammer 40'000 rule book

 

Dose Lucas count as a character?

Yes, as he is treated as a squad leader for your blood claws.

 

Do long fangs have flakk missiles?

No one at this stage has access to these missiles yet as it stats in the Missile launcher entry that all missile launchers have both Frag and Krak missiles but some may also be able to pay extra points for Flakk missiles.

 

Hope that this helps and if you have any other questions please contact us again"

 

 

Cheers Mitch

(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=256085)

 

Is this true, because normally we don't get any reply on our email. If this reply is true, it really helps me with my space wolves. Can you let me know if this answer in this topic is true or if you don't know anything about this?

 

Cheers Sake

[Mantinel]

That is great news for us. Personally I wouldn't allow for all these character squads to use special rules, but this at least levels us with Paladins and Nob Bikers. Hope they will remove these absurd rulings out for squads.

[Elazar The Glorified]

In 5th edition I had a fair bit of success with a footslogging Wolfwing army. It was sometimes an uphill battle for lack of maneuverability and speed but I was often not that far behind my opponents in numbers and the sheer horde-style nature of an all Terminator army like that was a welcome psychological factor.

 

My all comers list for 5th at 1750pts was:

 

Logan Grimnar

 

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators -

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

2 x Combi-Melta & Power Weapon

6 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators -

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

2 x Combi-Melta & Power Weapon

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

5 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators -

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

2 x Combi-Melta & Power Weapon

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

5 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

34 minis in Terminator armour.

This list finished 2nd at the NAG 'Ard Boys Tournament in March.

 

Haven't played much 6th yet and what I have has been mostly using a mix of Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard but I think the list certainly got better this edition. Mechanised armies have become slightly easier to slow down and the Cyclone Missiles are now even more deadly to enemy vehicles, especially in Logan's squad. I can extend the reach of the army by sticking a power armoured Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter in one of the squads to get that squad pressuring my opponent's deployment zone and any objectives there ASAP. Preferred enemy from Logan also got a lot better and then with the character rules thrown in I can pick out targets on 6s - very nice for all those Krak missiles to be aimed down the throat of an enemy character! I can also keep the heavy and special weapons Terminators alive a bit longer hopefully with the Look Out Sir! roll to keep them around until they've served their use (in the case of the combi-weapons) or for as long as possible with the Cyclone Launchers as the sheer weight of firepower they can churn out means they need to be kept alive. The only issue I really have is that most of the power weapons I used were axes and the rest were mauls. So that mixes things up a little, especially with the next to useless AP4 on the power mauls. Still S6 is handy for a few more worrying hits on rear armour on vehicles etc.

Going to have to have a few games with them this edition and see what works out best! Anybody have any thoughts on what to adjust?

[hrafnkel]

My all comers list for 5th at 1750pts was:

 

Logan Grimnar

 

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators -

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

2 x Combi-Melta & Power Weapon

6 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators -

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

2 x Combi-Melta & Power Weapon

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

5 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators -

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

2 x Combi-Melta & Power Weapon

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

5 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

Hile Brother Elazar, a quick question, what are the rates of successful combat? I was thinking of a "wolfwing" as some has taken to calling it, and i note a dearth of more heavy duty weapons like thunderhammers and powerfists etc.

[Captain Rolunde]

I'm interested in how well this turns out.

 

I've got a pretty good pile of Terminators, er... piled up and although the Deathwing is the "classic" way to do an all Terminator army, really, deep down I'm Ferisian. :P

 

Although there is some DA iconography on the models (they were pre-built by a buddy, he made a massive DA army and actually had enough "left overs" to build a full Deathwing that I was able to get off him some time back) but maybe I can find a right proper way to work around that.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

It also pains me to see the lack of heavy weapons on your list, Elazar.

I usually put a chain fist on my CML wolf guard, well at least I did in 5th edition...

 

Three lone wolves??!! I usually run one and some Long Fangs. How does this work out for you?? I am curious.

 

Now I am tooling around with the addition of PAWG and Fenrisian Wolves to place in front of my key models to act as cover/ablative wounds. I think with the new wound allocation rules and Look out, Sir being stupid good (anybody else heard about GW possibly nerfing it for character models??), the inclusion of meat-shield models seems like a worthy investment too me.

 

End of Line

[littlbitz]

I haven't been running a pure Logan TDA list, but have been running a Logan Grimnar led army with a large pack of TDA WG as its core.

 

Here is the Pack I ran in an 1850 list the other night against Dark Eldar:

 

Logan Grimnar

Arjac

2x in TDA with Power Axes

2x in TDA with Power Swords and Combi-PG

TDA with Power Fist and Combi-PG

TDA with Thunder Hammer and Combi-PG

TDA with Wolf Claw and Combi-PG

2x in TDA with Assault Cannon and Power Fist

 

The rest of the list was filled out with 3x Grey Hunter packs, 1 at full 10 and kitted out in a Drop Pod, 2x smaller packs in RBs, and 2x Dreadnoughts.

 

I found this pack to be insanely durable. I led the pack with Logan to the front, with Arjac right behind him, with the cheaper Termies on the perimeter of the unit and the Assault Cannons center.

 

Now, if I was doing wound allocation correctly, I allowed Logan to take an insane amount of Fire Power as I marched the unit right across the board to the objective on my opponents side of the board. When the real heavy stuff would come in at AP2, I would typically try and use Look out Sir (on a 2) and let Arjac make the save with his Storm Shield for the better invuln.

Sure my opponent got some flank shots on the pack, and thats where I did lose a few of my numbers, but thats why I formed up the pack the way I did.

 

The Plasma wasn't overly effective against the Dark Eldar, but I think that they will be very useful against many MEQ armies that I will face.

[KGatch113]

Has anyone gotten any games in?

 

I'm really not seeing Terminators as getting a boost in this game. Sure, power weapons are gacked, but throw enough shots and blows, and your terminators will die. I lost 10 Templarnators to a unit of Blood Angels assault marines and a chaplain, followed by a round of shooting from devs, followed by a shot on the last Termie in Overwatch.

 

I think everyone is getting excited about the HTH options of our terminators. I think we should look at our shooting options. Back in 4th, the Lysanderwing army with assault cannons was very successful.

 

We can do something similar...If we can juggle the points, put a RP with Divination on the squad to reroll the assault cannon shots, and since you can premeasure, you can constantly stay away from an enemy. Throw on some storm bolters or combi bolters, and you have a tough hard to kill unit.

 

Do BA Sanguinary Priests's aura's with the FNP work on Battle Brothers??? I know that is getting pricey, but that might also be an option if you take allies...And you would get FC.

[eyeslikethunder]

Do BA Sanguinary Priests's aura's with the FNP work on Battle Brothers??? I know that is getting pricey, but that might also be an option if you take allies...And you would get FC.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

 

Nope read the BA FAQ

[eyeslikethunder]

I haven't been running a pure Logan TDA list, but have been running a Logan Grimnar led army with a large pack of TDA WG as its core.

 

Here is the Pack I ran in an 1850 list the other night against Dark Eldar:

 

Logan Grimnar

Arjac

2x in TDA with Power Axes

2x in TDA with Power Swords and Combi-PG

TDA with Power Fist and Combi-PG

TDA with Thunder Hammer and Combi-PG

TDA with Wolf Claw and Combi-PG

2x in TDA with Assault Cannon and Power Fist

 

The rest of the list was filled out with 3x Grey Hunter packs, 1 at full 10 and kitted out in a Drop Pod, 2x smaller packs in RBs, and 2x Dreadnoughts.

 

I found this pack to be insanely durable. I led the pack with Logan to the front, with Arjac right behind him, with the cheaper Termies on the perimeter of the unit and the Assault Cannons center.

 

Now, if I was doing wound allocation correctly, I allowed Logan to take an insane amount of Fire Power as I marched the unit right across the board to the objective on my opponents side of the board. When the real heavy stuff would come in at AP2, I would typically try and use Look out Sir (on a 2) and let Arjac make the save with his Storm Shield for the better invuln.

Sure my opponent got some flank shots on the pack, and thats where I did lose a few of my numbers, but thats why I formed up the pack the way I did.

 

The Plasma wasn't overly effective against the Dark Eldar, but I think that they will be very useful against many MEQ armies that I will face.

 

 

Did you treat them all as characters? and try to look out sir the flank shots as well

[Elazar The Glorified]

The three Lone Wolves were always the star players for the list they're too lethal with the chainfists to ignore and they're durable enough to soak up a LOT of flak that would be downing Terminators 2+ save or not. Not sure they'll do as well this edition with the switch to 5+ FNP, granted I get to use the save more often but it was always on massed firepower from whole units I found myself needing it and that was shooting I got a 4+ (although granted that's not in any way pure mathammer but I can't do mathammer, everything in my lists goes in through love of the minis/rules/fluff, superstition or how well it has performed regardless of what probability might say otherwise!). Indeed, I'm actually a very, very uncompetitive player and really only play the army for the fluff and minis and so was suitably astounded when I finished in second place - only losing 1 game to the player that won the tournament (Venom spam Dark Eldar played very well, and with far too much target saturation for an army like min to be able to deal with effectively. Still pulled what looked like a Massacre back to a Minor Victory for my opponent and one of the Lone Wolves cemented his place in the sagas by absorbing 4 turns of shooting from 6 Venoms packed with Trueborn before finally being defeated in assault by a squad of Wracks. It was his ridiculous survivability - which was a brilliant psychological weapon too - that allowed me to pull the game back on the other areas of the table)

 

I got by with the lack of heavier weapons for the tournament certainly. Last edition there wasn't a huge amount that 8 S8 and 4 S9 krak missiles couldn't deal with over a couple of turns and at the very worst I could reliably keep heavier armoured things sat still or not firing until the Lone Wolves reached them) Chainfists felt to be abundant enough with the Lone Wolves always moving ahead of the large Wolf Guard packs to make mince meat of any Dreadnoughts foolish enough to have a go (Deat Company Dreadnoughts I mean you!) and any tanks that survived the barrage from the missiles. There were occassions I'd have loved to have had an extra few S8 attacks but it never felt like a handicap in those games.

However, since I have been playing a bit more with the following list which is probably closer to what my Wolfwing list will play like in 6th.

 

Logan Grimnar

 

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist & Storm Shield

 

Lone Wolf - TDA, Chainfist & Storm Shield

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

1 x Combi-Flamer & Power Weapon

1 x Combi-Melta & Power Fist

1 x Storm Bolter & Chainfist

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

4 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

1 x Combi-Flamer & Power Weapon

1 x Combi-Melta & Power Fist

1 x Storm Bolter & Chainfist

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

4 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

10 Wolf Guard Terminators

2 x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

1 x Combi-Flamer & Power Weapon

1 x Combi-Melta & Power Fist

1 x Storm Bolter & Chainfist

1 x Storm Bolter & Power Fist

4 x Storm Bolter & Power Weapon

 

I'm in agreement that Terminators haven't suddenly gotten stronger this edition. I think some of the quirks of this army have gotten and it's going to be harder to take out in assault but it's going to die a little easier as it crosses the board with the changes to rapid fire and less protection in cover saves etc.

 

As much as I love the Wolfwing though it was kind of a stop gap for me whilst I got together enough minis to play the army a bit differently and so now I generally go for a mix of Wolf Guard Terminators and Grey Hunters as my troops choices. Which so far in 6th is playing very well.

[littlbitz]

@Eyeslikethunder,

 

 

I mainly used it for Logan, to switch off wounds between him and Arjac. I did use it once to apply a failed save from Logan to another WolfGuard once though.

 

I'm not sure using it on the flank would have worked that well, unless I used it to move a wound to a different Wolfguard to avoid losing a heavy weapon, or important CCW.

 

My set up was such that the Assault Cannons were pretty well protected, so even though I lost a few Terminators, I didn't lose any of the real important ones.

[Canis Majoris]

I've had 5 games so afr with 6th and used a 5 man wg tga pack each time...and played against termis 2 times.

 

From this I personally think that with regards to shooting...no change in 6th still anything ap2 or mass firepower takes them down.

 

But really combat was'nt all that much diferent either... the only things really effected are units that all had power weapons eg...Banshee's, now howling banshees will avoid terminators like the aunt you only see once a year who allways tries to hug n kiss you to death....

 

And units that had the option of 1 or 2 power weapons or a powerfist etc will now generally take the fist just incase your up against a 2+ save.

[eyeslikethunder]

you could have used it to move ap2 wounds to move wounds to arjac from flank terminators

so isuppose my other question is how are you treating your wolfguard ALL AS characters like in the appendix or not

[Stormbrow II]

My set up was such that the Assault Cannons were pretty well protected, so even though I lost a few Terminators, I didn't lose any of the real important ones.

I've been looking away from Cyclones back to Asscans and I'm wondering if Precision Strike makes them more worthwhile? Did you get any use of this rule when shooting them?

 

Or would it be better to continue with SB/Cyc?

[Lord Ragnarok]

I've had 5 games so afr with 6th and used a 5 man wg tga pack each time...and played against termis 2 times.

 

From this I personally think that with regards to shooting...no change in 6th still anything ap2 or mass firepower takes them down.

 

But really combat was'nt all that much diferent either... the only things really effected are units that all had power weapons eg...Banshee's, now howling banshees will avoid terminators like the aunt you only see once a year who allways tries to hug n kiss you to death....

 

And units that had the option of 1 or 2 power weapons or a powerfist etc will now generally take the fist just incase your up against a 2+ save.

 

those units with Fists, are they rank and file troopers or characters? Are you challenging out the characters with fists?

[littlbitz]

Truthfully, I forgot all about the precision strike rule. I think it will come in handy once I get a better feel for 6th ed.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Has anyone gotten any games in?

 

I'm really not seeing Terminators as getting a boost in this game. Sure, power weapons are gacked, but throw enough shots and blows, and your terminators will die. I lost 10 Templarnators to a unit of Blood Angels assault marines and a chaplain, followed by a round of shooting from devs, followed by a shot on the last Termie in Overwatch.

 

I think everyone is getting excited about the HTH options of our terminators. I think we should look at our shooting options. Back in 4th, the Lysanderwing army with assault cannons was very successful.

 

We can do something similar...If we can juggle the points, put a RP with Divination on the squad to reroll the assault cannon shots, and since you can premeasure, you can constantly stay away from an enemy. Throw on some storm bolters or combi bolters, and you have a tough hard to kill unit.

 

Do BA Sanguinary Priests's aura's with the FNP work on Battle Brothers??? I know that is getting pricey, but that might also be an option if you take allies...And you would get FC.

 

I've not played any games but I'm most excited about TDA when leading packs of grey hunters. The list I want to play test has three pods of GH's lead by 1 rune priest each in runic and 1 WG each in TDA. Along with those, a TDA WG with aC with walking GH's. They should be a little tougher to root out while providing their benefits (psychic powers, challenges etc...)

[KGatch113]

There's a tournament next week, and my 6th ed Pedro army won't be ready, so I'll probably pop out some Wolfwing. It it does well I may take that to Nova.

 

No clue about my list. And I painted my wolf wing differently from my main wolves...dunno how that would look meshed together ( Dark Grey for the Termies, the powder blue for regular joes).

[nurglez]

So anyone else had some experience with logan wing? I'm intending to dust off my renegade logan wing and give them a try.

 

Logan 275

3 terminators, 3 combi plasma, 1 wc, 1 power axe, 1 power maul: drop pod 154

Arjac, 4 terminators, 3 combi melta, 2 wc, 1 ss, 1 power axe, cyclone: drop pod 425

10 terminators, 4 combi melta, 2 power mauls, 2 fists, 2 wc, 1 chainfist, power axe, 2 storm shields, 2 cyclones. 480

6 long fangs, 3 missiles, 2 heavy bolters: drop pod 165

1499

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Nurglez, just because they're renegade Wolves does it mean that a termicide unit will work?? ;) :P :down: :P

I use a Wolf Priest with four C-P/WC termis in a pod with a decent success rate. I've only played two games now is 6th ed, but I am liking it quite a lot.

 

On the subject of CML vs AssCans: I think until Flakk is released for general consumption the AssCan is a very good option if nothing else for the ability to both rend AND precision strike. It's good. Real good.

 

End of Line

[nurglez]

Aye, I was thinking of swapping a cyclone for an assault cannon, but I'll see how the cyclones cope first.

 

The 3 combi plasmas were like that back when I used them in 5th, mainly so I could attach Logan and my rune priest to them (when I had a rune priest instead of the long fangs), I can still give them tank hunters via Logan, and if I bump them to 5 I have to lose something else... So once again I'm going to stick with them...