SamuraiOrk Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hello, With the new edition in full swing I was thinking of adding some vanguard vets as allies to my gk. D6 Deep strike + HI + 2D6 charge with re-rolls + "Impact hits" + normal attacks seems too good to pass up. I'm thinking of following loadout: All Vets with Jump packs. Vet 1: PFist + BP Vet 2: PAxe + BP Vet 3: PSword + BP + MB Vet 4: CCW + BP + MB Vet 5: CCW + BP This comes to a total of 215 points. Any thoughts or suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 you don't get to use a jump pack to move and to assault, and deep striking counts as using the JP for movement, so no reroll or HoW when using HI. also, you need some SS in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Confirming that you don't get Heroic Intervention and reroll charge range/impact hits on the same turn. You pick one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The loss of the reroll on the charge makes Vangaurd a bit iffy to me. There is a significant chance they fail to charge at 6 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hello, With the new edition in full swing I was thinking of adding some vanguard vets as allies to my gk. D6 Deep strike + HI + 2D6 charge with re-rolls + "Impact hits" + normal attacks seems too good to pass up. I'm thinking of following loadout: All Vets with Jump packs. Vet 1: PFist + BP Vet 2: PAxe + BP Vet 3: PSword + BP + MB Vet 4: CCW + BP + MB Vet 5: CCW + BP This comes to a total of 215 points. Any thoughts or suggestions? I like a lot!! Good combo of stuff. Maybe one shield in the mix? Maybe lose the Axe? Also, what compulsory BA HQ and Troop will you take to go with the FA slot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Agreed they appear to function exactly like they did in 5th for HI, save that they now get a 2d6 charge instead of just 6". That said how you kit the sgt. is now going to be extra significant given he is the only guy in the squad eligible for challenges. Mine currently has a SS and glaive which I'm thinking is worth keeping for the time being as it seems like a pretty ideal setup for dueling most enemy charachters he's likely to face (but may prove prohibitively expensive if he consistently underperforms). VV have two (three) main jobs to me, A. neutralising/mauling nasty shooting units that will threaten the rest of your army as it approaches/sits around after DOA. or B. Tieing up, weakening and possibly even seriously damaging enemy CC deathstars/anything you dont want to charge you on its own terms. (Tho there is a third whereby you HI against an otherwize pretty average unit to block LOS to annother e.g. engage a grey hunter squad to block long fangs LOS, you could run them cheap just to do this but personally I only used to find the need when the two previous options are not avalible or too risky). Wether your charging nasty shooters or ballbusters Storm Shields are likely to be your go to equipment now due to overwatch, you can soak 1 or 2 plasma shots with reasonable confidence (you are unlikely to face more than that vs overwatch I think) before you "hammer smash face", and likewize you can expect to try and last a round or two vs anything but the scaryest CC units with a bit of 3++, tho unlike before 2+ sv units might really make you think twice now. You still get to choose who gets allocated which wounds in CC provided they are in b2b (very likely with such a small squad) tho the enemy does get to choose which wound pool you take first, but after what little play I've had with 6th this does not appear to make a massive difference. So on the whole most of the 5th ed conventions for VV seems largely the same save for the whole challenge thing, for which we only have a sgt. eligible (no IC when you HI)..... My thoughts at the mo are either keep him cheap (default powersword) so he can just decline a challenge if needs be, tho with only 5 or so men, and the fact that the enemy charachter then strikes as normal, this feels a bit like just handicaping yourself. I'm guessing 9 times out of 10 your going to want to eat the challenge regardless as either A. it will be reasonably even or B. the enemy charachter is so hard that the last thing you want is him striking vs the unit if you can avoid it! Either way sgt. guts & glory is going to want to get stuck in I think... SS is virtually a given I think, your going to be going up against atleast ap3 on a very regular basis with him, and as we know from 5th 3++ whilst not entirely reliable can be a complete PITA to get past, esp when you only have 3-4 attacks to throw at him in the 1st place (or 2 for a fist sgt. etc.). Assuming we are considering the SS virtually must have that leaves either a fist, claw or glaive as sensible choices for a weapon (& no point giving him nothing as he already has a free PS). Glaw and glaive are close enough to be down to personal preference I feel, LC is slightly better vs high T, glaive slightly better vs T4?) so I guess your either going to tool him to strike at I4 and dice sgt's/sv3 IC's, or I1 if you anticipate facing MC or sv2 IC's. Personally I'm leaning towards the claw or glaive as it seems alot more flexible and means you will still get attacks off vs anything I4 or less even if you are killed. Fist isnt going to be that good of an idea vs a MC as most will strike before you (and likely turn you into man-paste in the proscess), and you atleast get a chance to drop that nasty PF/TH multiwound invunerable save weiling IC before he also turns you into man paste. Vs a 4++ or better the fist suddernly seems less of a no brainer dispite the potential for ID if you only get 2 or 3 attacks with it, you might still be marginally better off with the fist still but forcing 2 or 3 normal saves and being good vs everything else seems a worthwhile tradeoff at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 ^whoa. In short, your Sergeant should look like this: Well almost, I'm not done painting him yet so he won't look exactly like this :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Or this :tu: http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/chairman_woo/Blood%20angels%204th/Vanguard%20Vets/013.jpg?t=1284639833 ^ actually far more painted than that but this is the best pic I have to hand atm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightguy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Don't have the book, so ignore if somehow illegal or I'm missing something. For VV, any model can take the upgrades. There is no profile difference between the sarge and the other troops. Who's to say who the sarge is? So why not make your sarge a regular BP/CS. Give the Fist and Sword to normal troopers? If someone challenges you, feed the IC your BP/CC Sarge". You can either not challenge or challenge an opposing IC with your BP/CC to soak all the possible wounds on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The VV consists of a Sergeant and the rest are vets. The sergeant comes standard with a Power Weapon, and can be upgraded to other options. The other vets come with the BP/CS setup and can be upgraded. A VV Sergeant with BP/CS is not possible. @woo, that is one sweet looking guy! He could easily stand in as captain with all that bling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Don't have the book, so ignore if somehow illegal or I'm missing something. For VV, any model can take the upgrades. There is no profile difference between the sarge and the other troops. Who's to say who the sarge is? So why not make your sarge a regular BP/CS. Give the Fist and Sword to normal troopers? If someone challenges you, feed the IC your BP/CC Sarge". You can either not challenge or challenge an opposing IC with your BP/CC to soak all the possible wounds on him. The VV Serg comes stock with a power weapon so you can't do as you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Jump Vanguard in this edition are interesting; the same risks still apply (they may not make charge range, even with only a d6" scatter; they're expensive when kitted out to HI and kill; if they dive in deep and alone, they are going to die) but new ones are added (Shooting wounds pull from the front). If you're going to HI them, I'd go on a tight budget with them. Take ONE guy with an upgrade (I'd recommend a Fist, maaaaybe an Axe with the new changes) and four to six with either NO UPGRADES or a pair of vets with Storm Shields only. When they DS, form eveybody up around hte guy with the Fist (so they can soak at least a few shots for him in case you fail charge range. In combat, you have a shield line that can take hits for the Power Fist, or even Look Out Sir for him (the fist is cheaper on the Serg, after all). Vanilla Vanguard does a staggering number of attacks on the charge. If you roll in with a full ten and NO upgrades, they'll drop more than a Dice Cube worth of S4 attacks...like Orks. :D I'll probably dump my thoughts on Vanguard into a Tactics thread at some point, but I need to see them in action in 6th before I really comment. It's worth mentioning this: should they get HI off, charge into a fight you're losing, and intervene in a Challenge that you're losing and save your commander, THAT would be AWESOME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiOrk Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just for reference (I might be blind), where does it say you can only use the jump pack once a turn? Had a look in "Jump unit" entry and couldn't find anything. :| In terms of loadout I was thinking of having the sarg with the PFist but a valid point is made with the challenges these days. Perhaps: All vets with jump packs Vet Sarg: Glaive + SS Vet 1: PFist + BP Vet 2: PAxe + BP Vet 3: CCW + BP + MB Vet 4: BP + SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp4rky Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 page 47, first paragraph in Jump Units: Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 page 47, first paragraph in Jump Units:Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn... Yep. It further explains the implications, which boil down to this: either you can move 12" (instead of the usual 6") during the Movement phase; OR you get to reroll your Charge dice and you benefit from Hammer of Wrath "Impact" hits. Since Vanguard count as having used their Jump Packs upon using HI (per the FAQ) they can't reroll their charge distance, nor do they get Impact Hits when using Heroic Intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiOrk Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 page 47, first paragraph in Jump Units:Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn... Guess I am blind... Serves me right for trying to read in the dark. ;) This just makes the tactic less likely to succeed. Originally, with the re-rolling HI, I was going for a Chaplian, 5 death company with jump packs and 5 vanguard with jump packs as allies. Since HI isn't as good as I would have hoped would it be worth just going for a Chaplian and 10 Death company with Jump packs instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'd throw a lance in there over the axe, Very nice on the charge, in fact a sergeant with Lance and SS means that you can challenge with S6/AP3 and 3++ thats not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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