Cmdr Shepard Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Greetings Battle Brothers. Now that 6th has been released I'm trying to make new lists for my armies. Do you have any suggestion for a Space Wolves competitive army? During the last months of 5th I wanted to make a thunderwolves list but the porject never started. Are Thunderwolves more or less useful in 6th edition? This is just an example; I'm open to any fun and competitive list. I want to play SW again after a long time, maybe not so long but certainly not brief :), and I need your assistance. EDIT: I forgot to mention I'm willing to use allies too, if need be. I plan to play 2000 pts matches so this will be the points value of the list I'm looking for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbrow II Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 With the amount of wholesale changes to the game its too early to call I reckon. Terminators are going to be popular, as will anything that counters them like Plasma guns and Cannons, as well as AP 2 weapons in combat. Characters with 2+/3++ and maybe Eternal Warrior will be more commonplace to soak up loads of firepower and survive challenges. Logan leading a blob of Wolf Guard in TDA will be a challenge for most armies, but my favourite new trick is to have a Pack Leader with a Cyclone and TDA because he gets to allocate who is hit when he rolls a 6 to hit with Krak missiles. TWC get a nice buff thanks to Hammer of Wrath and Wound Allocation changes - no longer do you divvy it up but you place everything on the pleb at the front of the unit and work back. I've looked at a unit of 4 with a Lord and 2 pet wolves with the Lord up front with a 2+/3++ to take hits and pass them onto the others on a 2+ if it will cause ID or he's only got 1 W left. Another unit I've looked at are Bikers. 5 or 6 of them with a Wolf Priest again with a 2+ save, CMelta and a WG with Fist,CMelta and an Attack Bike to flake down one wing and support attacks from any Grey Hunters in Pods that drop nearby. The Bikers are Fearless with re-rolls to hit whatever I deem to be the biggest threat and they've got loads of Attacks on the charge as well as a few Melta shots to thin out fancy guys or take out Tanks. Long Fangs are still really valuable: while they still struggle with AV13 when loaded up with Missile Launchers you only need to get 3 glances to wreck most vehicles now, so 12-15 Kraks a turn still terrify most armies. AFAIK, we don't get Flakk missiles. But that's where Allies come in. I'm looking at Guard myself. A CCS with some Meltavets and a Platoon of grunts accompanied by a Hydra squadron and a Vendetta squadron should be loads of AA firepower. That might even be excessive, as I'm not fully sure that I'd want the Hydras seeing as they're not as good at hunting Flyers as the Vendettas are so a Ride of the Valkyries Guard list might wing its way into my army. A CCS with 4 Plasma and some spare bodies and a Melta Vet squad both in Vendettas should be able to cope with most Flyers while the Wolves wreck everything else. These are just my thoughts though and they're subject to change for the next few weeks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3105555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm aware 6th Edition has been released only two days ago and the gaming community is still looking for the better options for their armies. I suppose Long Fangs are a must like they were in 5th. Even though they cannot apparently take Flakk missles. During 5th edition SW TDA were generally considered too expensive compared to standard marines' ones. Do you think the increased survivability they acquired in the new edition will justify their cost? Logan will make them scoring units adn he will grant them a special rule per turn, making them a valuable asset. I believe Rune priests will be necessary since their runic weapons nullify psychic powers within 24" on a roll of 4+: no army has something like that. Your bikers "build" sounds very interesting. Bikers are now T5 even for ID purposes: not bad. IG would be a good ally for SW. I'd like to play some Space Wolves+Grey Knights force, namely badass+badass ;) However IG would be much more effective since it can fills roles where SM, from any codex, do not excel. Vendetta gunship is one of the best "interceptor" available. However since SW don't have "native" access to flyers like SM, GK and BA I suppose some A/A weapon, maybe from fortifications, is needed. Fielding a squadron of Vendettas may be a problem, since you may have issue moving the flyers of the required distance when you can make only a 90° pivot. Hydra will be less effective against ground forces but cost less than a fortification+quad gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3105969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Page 415 of the new Rule book states Missile Launcher and give the stats for Frag, Krak, and Flakk. Meaning, if they have a stock missile launchers (Long Fangs and Dreads) they have Frag, Krak, and Flakk. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamCaboose Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Kassill that's not entirely true. Pg 57 says all missle launchers come with frag and krak as standard and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk. Problem is they don't list a points cost for it. Caboose Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Kassill that's not entirely true. Pg 57 says all missle launchers come with frag and krak as standard and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk. Problem is they don't list a points cost for it. Caboose Yes, all Missile Launchers (Cyclones, standard, etc) receive Frag and Krak. No objection here. However! The Appendix has Cyclones and Standards separated, and includes Flakk in only the standard, not the cylcone. Meaning it comes as an established option with no requirements. Let me give you an Example. The Eldar Fire Prism tank has a Prism Cannon. This cannon has two shooting options (Focussed and Dispersed.) Focussed is resolved at Str 9 AP 2 Blast while Dispersed is resolved at Str 5 AP 4 Large Blast. These are established options that have no requirements to use. It, however, has a 3rd shooting Option where 2 or more Prism Cannons combine beams. This however requires a second (or more) Prism Cannon to have line of sight. For each Cannon, reduce the shooting cannons AP by -1 and increase it's strength by 1. (So 2 cannons converging into one beam become Str 10 AP1 Blast if using Focussed.) However! This third option is not listed in the Rule Book Appendix as it requires a second cannon to accomplish. We can now see that if the Flakk Ammo for Missile Launchers was something you paid for, it would not be listed in the stock Missile Launcher stats (ie, it would require points (or something) like the prism cannon requires a second cannon to use or "unlock" the combined beams ability). I hope this is clear to you now, as it's the best example I can give at the moment. Enjoy your Flakk Rounds! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Kassill that's not entirely true. Pg 57 says all missle launchers come with frag and krak as standard and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk. Problem is they don't list a points cost for it. Caboose Also, i think a lot of people have been looking at that phrase completely the wrong way. As Kassill pointed out in his second post about this, the Appendix clearly shows which missile launcher types come standard with Flakk Missiles and which don't. What probably was the intended purpose of the phrase " Some have the option to upgrade to include flakk " was that future codex and possibly other ML types ( ie CML ) will eventually have the option to upgrade to Flakk capacity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 All the b's and brackets in the world won't make Long Fangs explicitly able to use Flakk rounds until GW says so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The only idea that I have for 6th edition competitive list is 8 HQ Choices at 2k points =] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 All the b's and brackets in the world won't make Long Fangs explicitly able to use Flakk rounds until GW says so. Find me one example of a unit having Flakk missiles in ANY of the codex or erratas. If you do then i will concede the point of Flakk missiles and Long Fangs. If not then the only example of anyone having flakk missiles is in the appendix under standard Missile launchers, which just happens to be what the Long Fangs and many other SM codex use. i'm also assuming that other codexes use standard Missile Launchers as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Is it really that hard to see? Flakk is in the Weapon profile given by the Rule Book itself. Long Fangs have Missile Launchers > Missile Launchers have Frag, Krak, AND Flakk > Therefor Long Fangs have Flakk rounds when wielding a Missile Launcher. Easy. As. That. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 How very modest of you to gift yourself anti-meta options to one of our best three units. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Actually, I am with Kassill on this point - pretty straightforward and well-explained. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 The ML "issue" has been discussed in many topics. I'd like to keep the conversation on topic, Battle Brothers, namely competitive SW armies for 6th Edition. Thanks for your co-operation. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3106953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'm thinking that you're almost always going to want to attach Eldrad with a squad of Pathfinders. Excellent scoring unit combined with a great psychic defense and a psyker. Loganwing, a Wolf/Rune Priest, Swiftclaws/Thunderwolves, and Long Fangs are looking like your best bet for the main force. If you have the points, I would also attach a Grey Knight Stormraven, possibly with Coteaz and DCA, for the anti-psyker excellence, or a Blood Angels one, possibly with Death Company and a Librarian, for all round destruction. Given the lack of anti-flyer, allied fleyrs are going to be very good for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3107288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Unit of TDA WG with Shrike attached, possibly even a WP or Logan to make it extra annoying. Combine with either a unit of Combi-plasma/plasma gun sternguard or a unit of Legion of the damned ( Oh man all those 3++ ) Could make for a very strong Footslogging loganwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3107297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Actually, I am with Kassill on this point - pretty straightforward and well-explained. Except for the part where there's some ambiguity, but no, go ahead. Don't let me stop you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3107962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 General consensus seems to consider TDA Wolfguard units very usefull. I always like TDA models but in 5th edition they have their "gaming issues" ;) I also love Thinderwolves models. Are they a viable choice in a 6th edition competitive army? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3108718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 General consensus seems to consider TDA Wolfguard units very usefull. I always like TDA models but in 5th edition they have their "gaming issues" ;) I also love Thinderwolves models. Are they a viable choice in a 6th edition competitive army? Sure TWC will have their place in 6th. You just need to find a way to use them in a way that interlocks with the rest of your force. Just remember, don't leave them without support and you now have the other codecs to aid you in this. For example, SM captain on bike with a unit of troop bikes to offer fire support and a secondary distraction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3108727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 General consensus seems to consider TDA Wolfguard units very usefull. I always like TDA models but in 5th edition they have their "gaming issues" ;) I also love Thinderwolves models. Are they a viable choice in a 6th edition competitive army? Sure TWC will have their place in 6th. You just need to find a way to use them in a way that interlocks with the rest of your force. Just remember, don't leave them without support and you now have the other codecs to aid you in this. For example, SM captain on bike with a unit of troop bikes to offer fire support and a secondary distraction. The 5th Edition list I wrote (I never actually built the army, though) had a lot of fenrisian wolves (unlocked via Canis special rule), two units of Long Fangs, three grey hunters squad in drop pod/rhino for holding objectives. Biker squad sounds a nice distraction for the enemy. I will lack A/A weaponery, though. I could take a stormtalon as part of the allied detachment.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3108736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 General consensus seems to consider TDA Wolfguard units very usefull. I always like TDA models but in 5th edition they have their "gaming issues" ;) I also love Thinderwolves models. Are they a viable choice in a 6th edition competitive army? Sure TWC will have their place in 6th. You just need to find a way to use them in a way that interlocks with the rest of your force. Just remember, don't leave them without support and you now have the other codecs to aid you in this. For example, SM captain on bike with a unit of troop bikes to offer fire support and a secondary distraction. The 5th Edition list I wrote (I never actually built the army, though) had a lot of fenrisian wolves (unlocked via Canis special rule), two units of Long Fangs, three grey hunters squad in drop pod/rhino for holding objectives. Biker squad sounds a nice distraction for the enemy. I will lack A/A weaponery, though. I could take a stormtalon as part of the allied detachment.... Or a fortification with skyfire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3108754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 General consensus seems to consider TDA Wolfguard units very usefull. I always like TDA models but in 5th edition they have their "gaming issues" :lol: I also love Thinderwolves models. Are they a viable choice in a 6th edition competitive army? Sure TWC will have their place in 6th. You just need to find a way to use them in a way that interlocks with the rest of your force. Just remember, don't leave them without support and you now have the other codecs to aid you in this. For example, SM captain on bike with a unit of troop bikes to offer fire support and a secondary distraction. The 5th Edition list I wrote (I never actually built the army, though) had a lot of fenrisian wolves (unlocked via Canis special rule), two units of Long Fangs, three grey hunters squad in drop pod/rhino for holding objectives. Biker squad sounds a nice distraction for the enemy. I will lack A/A weaponery, though. I could take a stormtalon as part of the allied detachment.... Or a fortification with skyfire. Indeed... ;) So any suggestion for a Thuderwolves army? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255233-any-idea-for-a-6th-edition-competitive-list/#findComment-3109104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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