Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I swore off ever posting anything in the Liber, but I have a nice idea and can't find any hols in it myself so have turned to the wider audience - that's you guys - for a second appraisal. Basic Idea: A Chapter - after the mandatory fighting and dying for the Imperium, yada, yada, yada - begins to suffer from genetic degredation; in effect their brain begins to all but fall apart. Such cases are isolated at first, some could even occur in combat and look like casualties from conflict, but eventually the Chapter starts to lose more Battle-Brothers from this "disease" than from actual combat. For a time the Chapter continues it's fight before losing their Chapter Master to the "disease" which causes a great deal of introspection - especially in the higher ranks - and eventually leads to the Chapter isolating itself from the Imperium as the Apothecarion seeks a solution. When this proves fruitless help is sought, somewhat reluctantly, from outside the Chapter in the form of Magos Biologis and servants of the Inquisition; both of whom are willing to barter their potential aid for a price. With squads disptached at the whim of their helpers, the Chapter returns to semi-isolation; not venturing forth except when commanded by those whose aid they sought and trying almost in vain to ramp up their recruitment process. Three of the Squads, tasked with retrieving samples of Xenos biological matter, are dumped out of the Warp close to a small planet bearing a human colony. The colony, a seeming paradise with no disease or poverty, non-exitant crime and death is nothing but an oddity to the Marines; another world to be welcomed back in to the Imperium. What makes this world so important is that each man, woman or child upon it is a synthetic creature; bodies made of toughened materials then coupled with memory engrams/recordings of thos biologicals who went before. Each synthetic retains the personality and mind of it's original human bearer, but in a body almost as hardwearing as a suit of Power Armour. After time this information is taken back to the Chapter, who have so far found both the Inquisitors and Magos involved unable to save them from their defect, and the Chapter - after an event I have currently decided to call The Magenta Accord - makes the descision to take its destiny in to its own hands. The Chapter investigates the technology and eventually begins the process of turning their Marines from post-human into synthetic human beings. At first such action goes unnoticed, as the Chapter slowly disassociates itself from the AdMech and Inquisition, information becoming less free-flowing and access to Battle-Brothers becoming more restricted. Obviously, the inevitable happens and those involved find out/are found out and it all becomes a bit of a mess; the Inquisitor reacts harshly, having been lied to and with some knowledge about other Machine Men, and the Magos brings the might of his litte portion of the AdMech to bear because of AI issues. The Chapter, having sacrificed so much in order to survive, goes to war against its own. After that, I have a few more ideas but that'll do for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 welcome back CJJ ... now for the bad news. Overall I like the idea, and the many ways it could go. I do have a few questions though. 1- Would the Inquisition and Magos whoever really ask a price for their help? They may expect something if they were successful, but I'm not sure they'd ask ahead of time. 2- Do the humans know where the technology originally came from? 3- Androids ... right, but with the transferred consciousness of the real humans? 4- Are the android bodies really as good as a SM body? Even if physically as strong, they'd still lose all the SM perks .... would the Chapter go that far? 5- BIG ONE SAVED FOR LAST. Would the SMs really have the technical ability to reproduce the procedure? SMs make their own weps and repair their armor, but they're hardly the most technically inclined in the Verse. I really do want to see more of this idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3105813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 welcome back CJJ ... now for the bad news. This will be the tag-line for my marriage, if I ever find a desperate enough woman. 1- Would the Inquisition and Magos whoever really ask a price for their help? They may expect something if they were successful, but I'm not sure they'd ask ahead of time. It depends on the individual in my opinion. The Magos is using his time to try and find a cure, so in his stead he "asks" for Marines to complete the task he had set himself. In this case, the Magos may jump at the chance to interact with Marine biological matter, but that doesn't mean he'd surrender his own work. As for any Inquisitor; the Inquisition has its own motives or agenda so why might it not choose to gain some advantage over the notoriously haughty Space Marines? 2- Do the humans know where the technology originally came from? Intially, this is not something I had considered but the only logical answer is "They must do..". 3- Androids ... right, but with the transferred consciousness of the real humans? In effect, yes - not an unknown concept in sci-fi but something intriguing I felt with the aversion to AI in 40k, something that these "new" Marines could be considered to be. 4- Are the android bodies really as good as a SM body? Even if physically as strong, they'd still lose all the SM perks .... would the Chapter go that far? I may have overstated the former in my haste, as I saw it more as a matter of comparison; Marine armour is the only thing the Chapter knows of that is comparable but that armour is still far more complex because the technology of the world was far more concentrated on the intial transferance tech with the android frames being something of an afterthought not designed for war. It's kind of like it's not the best you could have, but there isn't a lot that's a great deal better? 5- BIG ONE SAVED FOR LAST. Would the SMs really have the technical ability to reproduce the procedure? SMs make their own weps and repair their armor, but they're hardly the most technically inclined in the Verse. Could the Chapter duplicate it as is, just by "diving in" and having a go? No. But I see time spent investigating, discussing and even testing the technology on volunteers. In part the latter is an integral facet of their reluctance to endure censure; they sacrificed - basically killed - their Brothers in the early stages, why now should they make that sacrifice in vain? I really do want to see more of this idea. Cheers :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3105894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeStorm Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 the only real problem here is if the Inquision found out the Chapter would be on the outs. Iron Hands chapter is just on the line cause of there bodily changes. ok so there are 2 problems Mars would be all up in the tech. If thay didn'g give there "blessing" the chapter would be charged with using xenos tech, and forced to at minimum give up all tech. just my understanding on how the two groups work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3106362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord-Rakszan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I dont know about you guys but I like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3106831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 the only real problem here is if the Inquision found out the Chapter would be on the outs. Iron Hands chapter is just on the line cause of there bodily changes. Which will happen, as you can't keep secrets for very long when an Inquisitor is rooting around, - as I said - partly because of too close a similarity to Necrons but also a very human "I don't like that you lied to me..." response. ok so there are 2 problems Mars would be all up in the tech. If thay didn'g give there "blessing" the chapter would be charged with using xenos tech, and forced to at minimum give up all tech. The AdMech wouldn't be interested in the tech beyond ensuring its destruction; AI is the gravest of tech heresy and I can see how the Chapter could come to be viewed as such without and bilogical components left. I dont know about you guys but I like it. Cheers ;) To go back to an earlier point that Ecritter made but I don't think I actually mentioned, regarding the loss of abilities possessed by a Marine in favour of an artificial body: In my mind, not as much as you might think is lost; senses can be duplicated, so can speed and strength and things like an extra heart, extra lung or dealing with toxins are kinda moot when you don't have blood, don't breathe and can't be poisoned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3106845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew J Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I like the idea but it doesnt sit well with me because self preservation is not a normal marine trait. Most chapters would more likely go off on a final crusade until they all died because they were not good enough to be marines, or something along those lines. On another line I think you could go more grimdark and instead of androids maybe they mindwipe citizens and transfer their conciousness over to the new uninfected body? Dont know just a thought if you receive too much backlash on the android part, which also just doesnt feel right with the flavor of the 40k universe to me. Way too advanced to not have been destroyed or used already to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3107749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The androids sound like Necrons, which may explain why Overlord-Rakszan likes it. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3108020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord-Rakszan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The androids sound like Necrons, which may explain why Overlord-Rakszan likes it. :) This guy gets it! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3108600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I like the idea but it doesnt sit well with me because self preservation is not a normal marine trait. Most chapters would more likely go off on a final crusade until they all died because they were not good enough to be marines, or something along those lines. But it's not self-preservation in the sense you might think; they see a way for them to still serve the Emperor and so they take it. ...which also just doesnt feel right with the flavor of the 40k universe to me. That's the thing though, everyone has a different idea about what fits for 40k. Way too advanced to not have been destroyed or used already to me. Worlds are rediscoveredand so is technology, par of the reason the AdMech sends out Explorator Fleets, so I don't see it as such a problem. It's kinda' like saying, before the introduction of the Land Speeder, that it's too advanced for it but it still works in the fabric of SM lore. The androids sound like Necrons...: Actually, I want that "Wait, this sounds like Necrons.." angle as this would influence, even further, the decision to dispense with the Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3108693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have a suggestion. - Drop the Inquisition/Magus angle. - Have the chapter get sick as you've written it, but preparing to die. - Have the planet found while on last Crusade. - Chapter Master wants nothing to do with this ebil tech, he's set on the chapter dying in combat. - Chapter Master dies as you've written. - New Chapter Master wants to live, returns to the planet and begins to work on converting marines. You go from there. How does that sound? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3108944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord-Rakszan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 - Have the chapter get sick as you've written it, but preparing to die. There are really two ways to go about that: Theres the Eldar way of simply accepting your fate and theres also the Dark Eldar way of refusing to see your own fate and doing all you can to avoid it. Usually this does not work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3109405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have a suggestion. That what my girlfriend said, then she wasn't my girlfriend any more - yeah, that's right, I'm playing the sympathy card for something that never happened! :) - Drop the Inquisition/Magus angle. - Possible. They can still find out and do the "no Imperial Necrons"/"No AI" schtick. - Have the chapter get sick as you've written it, but preparing to die. - I'd stick on an addendum about trying to counter their affliction through their own Apothecary at least. - Have the planet found while on last Crusade. - This would be the last resort, after they can't cure themselves. - Chapter Master wants nothing to do with this ebil tech, he's set on the chapter dying in combat. - Dissenting voices in the ranks, others not as willing to waste their lives when they can further serve the Emperor. - Chapter Master dies as you've written. - And much sorrow was had by all. - New Chapter Master wants to live, returns to the planet and begins to work on converting marines. - It's not about wanting to live, though I guess that was for the sake of brevity on your part. How does that sound? - In essence, it's simpler than my version but has the "key" elements such as the android-ness and conlfict with the Inquisiton and AdMech. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3109541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 You forgot to add - May be easier to write and cause less questions here ... both big pluses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255255-an-idea/#findComment-3110213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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