Canis Majoris Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Played a test group battle today in my local store, just 1 hq 1 elite 1 troop each there was 4 of us. I was wolves naturally another was chaos then we had dark eldar and necrons. and we stumbled across a really nasty rule that makes necrons stupidly ott...aparently gauss weapons including those on normal necron warriors allways glance on a roll of 6? then he had this special hq that can give the squad tank hunters ( reroll armour pen rolls ) so 20 warriors 40 shots with ap rerolls...three 6's and my dred was dead...next turn front armour on chaos vindicator...13 they can't even pen it or glance but cos its gauss...with rerolls...3 x 6 rolls...dead tank ... We found this stupid and even without the character giving them tank hunters they would still have taken out the tank and dred in 1 round of shooting with str 4 weps... I feel sorry for land speeders...but even if you had an armour 14 land raider...4 rolls of 6 and poof its gone...from normal necron warriors...with str 4 guns... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbrow II Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You seem extremely shocked by this. Get used to more of this in 6th. Btw: have you met the Barge Lord with Sweep Attacks yet? He'll give you a horrible surprise when you see him in action for the first time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3105825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Majoris Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I would'nt say extremly shocked...its just's been made silly now that glances take off hull points...i should point out that the same necrons promply got destroyed by dark eldar in cc... But thats besides the point...i was just pointing out that its something to be carefull when facing necrons...i personally would'nt even bother taking vehicles against them now well...at least not one that has to get up close. Are all necron guns glance on 6? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3105860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Necrons have had that ability since their inception, no? That's like the fundamental Gauss rule. It's nothing new. It was definitely in through 4th and 5th Ed, for sure. I think 3rd too. Necrons are nasty anti-vehicle. That's just how they are. So what? Slog out of your wrecked tanks and punch them in the face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3105863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Majoris Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I know thats not a new rule....but now that vehicles have hp and die so easily with glances it makes them stupidly overpowered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3105868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I know thats not a new rule....but now that vehicles have hp and die so easily with glances it makes them stupidly overpowered remarkably effective versus vehicles. Necron transports (which only recently joined the game) are extremely fragile. Necrons go down like wet tissue paper in melee. Necrons have no access to the cool new Psychic Powers. I'd say they're balancing out okay. <3 So far I haven't seen anything in this edition that's "stupidly overpowered." In fact, all evidence seems to suggest that they've been planning for this edition since at least half way through the last one. (Jump packs super expensive, Necron Gauss being thoroughly under-whelming, the Brotherhood Champion from GK making absolutely no sense until now, etc.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3105878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 A SW player calling Necrons "cheesy" (whatever that means) nearly made me laugh out loud. 'Crons have always been good anti-vehicle (I have less than fond memories of scarab swarms destroying many a Black Templar Dreadnought of mine). They do have weaknesses. It's up to you to adjust tactics/adapt. Don't whine about cheese, fella, the Emperor/Russ doesn't like a whiner... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Majoris Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 the problem here is that when you read something you dont hear how the person is saying it and you all seem to asume i'm angry and moaning and whining...which speaks to how you view things in general. the rules are new and we share our experiences of what happens with those new rules... So i'm saying watch out because from my expereince today this specific part of the new rules has made necrons even more deadly in this regard. Don't go presuming so much. The necrons were dealt with in cc as usual go patronise ( baaad spelling ) someone else. Just comment if you need to and stop attacking people all the damn time when you dont know a thing about who your attacking its idiotic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 First game of 6th using my Wolves I'll put up a battle report. I will be up against Necrons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 While everyone has jumped on board the "stop whinning" I agree with the original poster. I am a long time SW player, but have started slowly collecting a necron army. I can understand the frustration of having a large point vehicle (Bjorn) to die so easily to glancing hits. To counter a few of the statements said so far in this thread: 1. Barge, while it is still a very deadly machine, it now has three hull points. They can be repaired via taking a wound, but like all other vehicles it will be destroyed easily if concentrated on. 2. Necron transports are not fragile, the Ghost Ark has 4 structure points and can repair one every round. The Night Scythe is a flyer. You need 6's to hit it and has three structure points. 3. Telling someone to stop complaining is not helpful. How about you be a battle brother to a fellow wolf and give him some advice in ways to make warfare against the ancient metal heads. 4. Necron Warriors can now move and shoot up to 24" once, as well as guass blasters on the Immortals. Advice: -Everything in the Necron's arsenal but the Doom Ark's cannon and Heavy destroyer's (Heavy Guass Cannon) have a range of 24". Necron warriors are down to a 4+ save, so as long as they are not hiding in a Ghost Ark, they can be brought down easily with heavy bolter/assault/autocannon fire. -Drop pods are your friend. A pod of combi-melta/plasma (might try flamer for counter assaults), lightning claw, terminator WG can really hose down a squad of anything. Not much in the Necron list has AP 2, nor do any of their power weapons cut through your armor now. The only thing you need to look out for are scarabs which will take away your shiny 2+ save. -Fast Attack units - they are all good, they all can possibly move 24" in a round. Sky Claws and TWC both get to re-roll their charge ranges (either one or both die). So if you find a foot squad annoying you, make sure they know if they take out that Rhino, you're going to rip them to shreds the following turn. -Necron Flyers, Tempest Wrath is good, forces them to move in dangerous and difficult terrain. Basically this means they roll a 1 and it blows up. Besides that we have to take a fortification to take reliable weaponry to take down fliers currently. -AV 13, it's the magic number in necron lists. The nice thing though is once you penetrate it once, they'll be easy to blow up. -Lords and Crypteks, they're characters. Make sure you have something to kill these guys. For Crypteks wolf scouts with sniper rifles can rock their world. The new sniper ruling 6's allow you to allocate the hit. They are still rending and pinning as well. For lords I would recommend having some storm shields as warscythe's are AP 1 and hit on initiative 2. It is really where the Necrons are going to shine in this edition. You want to kill a lord, he gets to swing strength 7 AP 1 first. -Destroyers are going to come back in style. They have preferred enemy everything, that means all 1's they roll offensively in game will be re-rolled. *Shudders* -Get an Iron Wolf in your list. Watch your opponent cry as you repair a hull point to Bjorn every round :D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 the problem here is that when you read something you dont hear how the person is saying it and you all seem to asume i'm angry and moaning and whining...which speaks to how you view things in general. You presume much of our character. :D (Irony.) I recommend adding winkies and smilies as otherwise cold-text talking about how unfair something is can only look like you're whining. You can take Crons, I promise. Buck up, rethink, and try again. You learn more from losing anyway. I promise. ...also, what's the AV on that Ark? 11? I would kill that with my ML devastators...and you're SW players, your Long Fangs are way better than my Devs, no? ;) You have options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 the problem here is that when you read something you dont hear how the person is saying it and you all seem to asume i'm angry and moaning and whining...which speaks to how you view things in general. You presume much of our character. :D (Irony.) ...also, what's the AV on that Ark? 11? I would kill that with my ML devastators...and you're SW players, your Long Fangs are way better than my Devs, no? ;) You have options. All AV 11 vehicles have quantum shielding (except the flyers). This gives them AV 13 to their front and sides until they take a penetrating hit, then it goes back to AV 11 for the remainder of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 On paper gauss weapons do look like they have the potential to be ott, especially against things like land raiders which they don't even come near being able to actually glance, never mind penetrate. But it makes sense that a race that has been building weapons since before the dawn of man would have a few tricks up its sleeve. The other one to consider is Tesla weapons with snap shot... for every 6 to hit, its generates, I believe, an additional 2 hits... potentially very painful :P but this is no doubt to somewhat balance Necrons being awful up close, so they have a potentially deadly stand and shoot. On paper both look to be potentially ott, but theory can only get you so far, getting some games in is the only way to know for sure. It does look like this edition has been in the background for quite some time and from what I've seen so far, is allot tighter written than previous incarnations. Wolfsbane has some good ideas for an effective counter tho, that dirt cheap pack of Long Fangs with heavy bolters is looking more and more appealing :( The biggest gripe for me atm is that Dante is initiative 6 but strikes at initiative 1.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3106897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I think another thing to watch out for are lords with warscythes. They get to strike at their initiative with Str 7/AP 1. So if they have the 2+ armor upgrade, all your armor punching abilities will strike at 1. Also don't miss Obyeron if he challenges you :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 A SW player calling Necrons "cheesy" (whatever that means) nearly made me laugh out loud. 'Crons have always been good anti-vehicle (I have less than fond memories of scarab swarms destroying many a Black Templar Dreadnought of mine). They do have weaknesses. It's up to you to adjust tactics/adapt. Don't whine about cheese, fella, the Emperor/Russ doesn't like a whiner... :cuss I've been reading a number of popular blogs since the weekend where the author played test games with a necron army, and then himself remarked afterwards that the codex (and the gauss vehicle thing in particular) seems amazingly overpowered in 6th edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It might be overpowered againt armour, but come on, as has been said in this thread already; adapt. 6th ed is built to be the age of infantry and psykers, not like the 5th age of the vehicle. I like it, because it is different, and makes most races better against vehicles, crons in particular. However, allt that is balanced out, I think, form the fact that races like crons are WEAK when shot at/clubbered in CC. Ergo - we adapt. We are Space Wolves still, and there is no force in the galaxy that can stand against us. Use what you know =) I am looking forward to my first games of 6th ed tomorrow, and I really like the new direction the rules are taking. Less vehicles, more bodies =) Cheers, Nat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Also, "Oh no guass flayers!" *Drop pod* *TDA + Runepriest with Jaws slaughters said units* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Majoris Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 I should point out that we did'nt actually pick points for this battle it was simply a test to see how the new rules played out...i had 1 lord no wargear....10 grey hunters with a plasma gun and a dred with TL-Las. The necron guy had whatever that character is that you take and get to take the other character and it counts as 1 choice....20 warriors and a full unit of those new shield toting hoogamaflips... Needless to say we was slightly out pointed lol. But the dark eldar guy had hesperax in a squad of something dark eldary...dont really know DA much....but needless to say they pretty much slaughtered the necron warriors on the charge... but not before my dred heavy flamered another unit of dark eldar and finished the rest off in cc... I've allways taken allot of flamers in my army because my army is fire based...i'm pleased to know that i get d3 automatic hits for snap firing a flamer on overwatch ;) so basically 2-6 hits per pack of grey hunters without the others shooting there boltguns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Wait, he had a special character and units based on a troop-unlock? And you had just basic stuff? So, this point disparity could have been huge? How many points was it? If he had a 200+ point advantage, I'm not sure you should draw any conclusions on your experience...other than the conclusion that you should pick equal points for a fight. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Majoris Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 it was'nt a "proper" battle for most of us it was just a lil fun to see how things worked but i think he was one of these play to win at all costs kinda people. I think his points was about 400 above mine...and way more above the DA player...chaos had a vindi 4 termins with a lightning claw lord and 10 warriors. I only had what i had because i was only in store to paint...so thats all i brought...i just joined in ;) The chaos guy soon learned not to put his lord at the front of his squad though...i rapid fired with boltguns at his termis and he failed 3 2+ saves ;) look out sir saved 2 of those but he still lost 2 termis and 1 wound on his lord from simple boltgun fire :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yes. Well. If a Necron player has 400 more points than you do, you should expect him to win. <3 What's broken there is NOT the Necron army book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Majoris Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 I supose its not all THAT cheesy...not when you consider a few wolf priests with Jotww could pretty much decimate necrons...or orcs...or tau... Oh he also "Claimed" that those units with shields that reflect saved shots upto 6 inches away works with thrown grenades to...seemed a bit silly...But i will play this guy for real next time and see how things go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I don't think you can draw any real conclusions from it anyway; OP admits to trying to get a feel for how things have changed, so it's not even like he had thrity goes at the exact same scenario and got the same result every time. The thing is, yeah the rule makes Necrons good against vehicles but - as has already been pointed out - you can bitch-slap them to the ground in CC, as well as such a rule being purely situational. Seriously, see how exciting the rule is when - for example, and wrong forum I know - a Necron player has to contend with a Black Tide (BT Footslogger List). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255258-beware-of-cheesy-necrons/#findComment-3107595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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