Grey Mage Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 So in mission 6 "The Relic" the relic may only move 6" a turn, even when in a transport, but can be carried by any model. In addition, it is dropped if the model falls back or is removed as a casualty. However, this is not the only ways models can move. What about those units that are capable of unusual redeployments such as Gate of Infinity, Swooping Hawks via Skyleap, and mawlocs reburrowing? While it seems reasonable to me to simply disallow these moves while the model continues to hold the relic, there doesnt appear to be a RAW answer for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 It's answered, if you but read a little more :lol:. "If it [the model carrying the relic] is forced to do so [move more than 6"], the Relic is immediately dropped." Besides, it can only be picked up by a scoring unit, which cuts out Mawlocs and Swooping Hawks from the picture. Since the Gate was more or less defined as movement, I figure it'd make them drop it too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3105857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayCatt Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 "... the model carrying the Relic cannot Run and can never move more than 6" iin any phase. If it is forced to do so, the Relic is immediately dropped." I would say the other movement options you mentioned would result in a drop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3105859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yea, how about that...that actually does seem clear. That's nice. ;) Cut and dry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3105981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 It's answered, if you but read a little more :blink:. "If it [the model carrying the relic] is forced to do so [move more than 6"], the Relic is immediately dropped." Besides, it can only be picked up by a scoring unit, which cuts out Mawlocs and Swooping Hawks from the picture. Since the Gate was more or less defined as movement, I figure it'd make them drop it too. There's an argument to be made that you get to take it if using Gate takes you 6" or less in terms of distance. Would be a bit cheeky to try it though, and its not something I intend to do. What about scoring Jetbikes...could they in theory turbo-boost 6" (and the same for Ravenwing and Codex: SM bikers with a bike captain), and then get their 2d6" assault phase move, which says "up to 2d6", so choosing to cap it at 6? I realise that this is of no benefit to us, but it might if we play against pointy-headed space elves and have to try and pinch it back. Bike armies look like they could move the relic 12" in a turn, in addition to being able to get to it on turn 1, so getting there first and being back behind the rest of the army before the opponent has had a turn might make it a real uphill battle for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3106314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes indeed! And yes, the Jetbike bump is "up to 2D6 inches" in the assault phase. This would allow them to rocket up on the first turn and get it, turboboost for 6" back toward their lines during the shooting phase (wooo! :)), and then bump again up to 6" during the assault phase, as the Relic can only move up to 6" per phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3106366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 So you're suggesting that the ancient and decadent Eldar should wield their formidable Jet Bikes in a daring game of Hot Potato? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3106369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Make it like Halo where it randomly, violently explodes and it's a sure thing! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3106380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Make it like Halo where it randomly, violently explodes and it's a sure thing! Oh man. I think we just invented a new Ardboyz Event. /re-rails the thread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3106400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You could house rule it so that The Relic uses mysterious objectives, and one of the mysterious objective results results in the objective in question periodically explodes with a S5, AP- pie-plate centred over the objective... not so funny now, is it :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3109449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Can an IC pick up the relic if the IC has joined a scoring unit? Can the IC drop the relic, then pick it up again in the same turn, if it leaves one scoring unit and then joins another? Thanks Brothers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3178438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 As far as I can tell, the IC can pick it up if it is in a scoring unit. Yes. If the IC leaves that unit it does not appear that it must drop the relic in RAW. The relic remains with the model that picks it up until it is dropped. The rules then go on to list the ways the relic can be dropped. Leaving a scoring unit is not among them. As far as dropping and picking it up, it can only be seized at the end of the movement phase so if it is dropped sometime before that, sure, you can drop and pick it up on the same turn. The relic moves with the model that has control of it so picking it up and then "dropping" it behind you where another model picks it up .... etc ... not allowed since no movement can happen after the end of the phase. It may be possible to turbo-boost like mentioned above and thus move the relic in a later phase but once it is dropped, it remains where it is until the end of the next movement phase. I think it important to say this again, the relic moves with the model that has seized it. It is not physically picked up from the table. If you want to spin the relic around to the other side of the model you will have to move the model in order to move the relic. It is also important to note that the relic can not move over 6". The model in control can move more than this as long as it stays in base contact and the relic only moves 6" or less. [edited to fix some pronoun confusion] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3178518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yes indeed! And yes, the Jetbike bump is "up to 2D6 inches" in the assault phase. This would allow them to rocket up on the first turn and get it, turboboost for 6" back toward their lines during the shooting phase (wooo! :cuss), and then bump again up to 6" during the assault phase, as the Relic can only move up to 6" per phase. Turbo-boosting Bikes move up to 12", turbo-boosting Jetbikes move up to 24" . Controlling their Bikes at such speeds takes all the riders' concentration and skill, however. Bikes and Jetbikes therefore cannot shoot, charge or execute any other voluntary action for the rest of the turn after Turbo-boosting. Can't do anything else after turbo-boost so no assault phase moves I'm afraid. You can steal a few extra inches in the movement phase by switching the relic from one model to another, which can potentially gain you the length of two bases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3178699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have another question regarding the Relic. If an IC is joined to a scoring unit, can he pick up or be passed the Relic? The rules say a model in a scoring unit. The unit that the IC is in is scoring....ergo? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3178715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 2-3 posts ago there, Mort. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3178886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You can steal a few extra inches in the ovement phase by switching the relic from one model to another, which can potentially gain you the length of two bases. I am not seeing this. To sieze the relic, you move into base contact with it. At the end of the movement phase, a modle in a scoring unit can sieze control simply by saying which model "picks it up." The thing is, the relic is not physically picked up. It is not moved and can not be moved until the model that has it is able to move with it. Moving the relic is part of the movement phase because the relic moves with the model that has siezed it. If that model moves the relic to another position, then the movement phase had not actually ended when he siezed it. Therefore he does not actually have control of it to move it in the first place. But the long and short of it, the relic can not be siezed until all movement is finished so the relic itself can not be moved and still be part of the movement phase that is already completed. Then, even if you could pick it up and pass it over to another model, that model could not pick it up until the end of the next movement phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3178888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 As far as I can tell, the IC can pick it up if it is in a scoring unit. Yes. If the IC leaves that unit it does not appear that it must drop the relic in RAW. The relic remains with the model that picks it up until it is dropped. The rules then go on to list the ways the relic can be dropped. Leaving a scoring unit is not among them. As far as dropping and picking it up, it can only be seized at the end of the movement phase so if it is dropped sometime before that, sure, you can drop and pick it up on the same turn. The relic moves with the model that has control of it so picking it up and then "dropping" it behind you where another model picks it up .... etc ... not allowed since no movement can happen after the end of the phase. It may be possible to turbo-boost like mentioned above and thus move the relic in a later phase but once it is dropped, it remains where it is until the end of the next movement phase. I think it important to say this again, the relic moves with the model that has seized it. It is not physically picked up from the table. If you want to spin the relic around to the other side of the model you will have to move the model in order to move the relic. It is also important to note that the relic can not move over 6". The model in control can move more than this as long as it stays in base contact and the relic only moves 6" or less. [edited to fix some pronoun confusion] But if an IC leaves a scoring unit to join another scoring unit, for a fraction of his move, he is joined to neither (and non-scoring.) At that point, he must drop the relic (one inch away.) If he moves into base to base with the relic, during his move, he is not a part of a scoring unit. He does not join the unit until the end of the new scoring unit's Movement phase, or until the end of the Movement phase (for scoring units that have already moved.) The pickup of the relic is automatic at the end of the Movement phase. But the IC was not a scoring model when he "moved" next to it, and is therefor ineligible to pick it up. If he was already a part of the scoring unit, and never left it, he could pick it up with no issue. Edited for typo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Can't do anything else after turbo-boost so no assault phase moves I'm afraid. Yes, you can. Turbo-boost is a general rule for all bikes. The 2d6 move is a specific rule for (Dark) Eldar jetbikes. Specifics overrule general, remember? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 But if an IC leaves a scoring unit to join another scoring unit, for a fraction of his move, he is joined to neither (and non-scoring.) At that point, he must drop the relic (one inch away.) I agree that this is how it SHOULD work. But ... read the rules again and point me to the line where is says that if a model is no longer scoring it must drop it. It says you must be in a scoring unit to pick it up. It does not say you must be in a scoring unit to retain possession. It's cheesy, it's dumb and it's borked but .... leaving a scoring unit is not in the list of reasons that the relic must be dropped. I think there is a better case in arguing that "joined with a unit" is not the same "in the unit" so the IC is not ellegable to pick it up. Still, this is one of those things best agreed upon BEFORE starting the mission. It does not make a whole lot of difference how you play it as long as you both are playing that way from the start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 But if an IC leaves a scoring unit to join another scoring unit, for a fraction of his move, he is joined to neither (and non-scoring.) At that point, he must drop the relic (one inch away.) I agree that this is how it SHOULD work. But ... read the rules again and point me to the line where is says that if a model is no longer scoring it must drop it. It says you must be in a scoring unit to pick it up. It does not say you must be in a scoring unit to retain possession. It's cheesy, it's dumb and it's borked but .... leaving a scoring unit is not in the list of reasons that the relic must be dropped. I think there is a better case in arguing that "joined with a unit" is not the same "in the unit" so the IC is not ellegable to pick it up. Still, this is one of those things best agreed upon BEFORE starting the mission. It does not make a whole lot of difference how you play it as long as you both are playing that way from the start. LOL, your completely right. That is SO borked! I try to avoid arguing during the game, and leave my arguing to these forums. GW needs to fix this. I played a game against some Grey Knights. Their Librarian got the Precognition power while in Terminator armor. Its hard enough to wound an IC with a 2+ Look Out Sir. Add in the 2+ re-rollable save, and it becomes ridiculous. I must have fired a couple hundred bolter shots/frag bursts/missiles at him. Four tactical squads and a full ten man terminator. My precision shots would normally wound on a 1 in 6, try doing it on a 1 in 36. I did wound him once, but just couldn't get the second. I was in a position to win, if neither of us had possession. He just moved his Librarian from squad to squad, soaking up the hits. I give my opponent kudos for thinking up a good way to win. But it just seems broken... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehoel Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Can't do anything else after turbo-boost so no assault phase moves I'm afraid. Yes, you can. Turbo-boost is a general rule for all bikes. The 2d6 move is a specific rule for (Dark) Eldar jetbikes. Specifics overrule general, remember? As per the BGB, on page 45, "Turbo-boosting Bikes move up to 12”, Turbo-boosting Jetbikes move up to 24”. Controlling their Bikes at such speeds takes all the riders’ concentration and skill, however. Bikes and Jetbikes therefore cannot shoot, charge or execute any other voluntary action for the rest of the turn after Turbo-boosting." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 It's not specific > general, it's Codex > BRB. Eldar Jetbikes have a Codex rule that superceeds the BRB rules on Jetbike movement. (Assuming they have such a Codex rule, not read the 'dex in ages, basing my answer on I-C Ezra's post above). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 GJB's in Codex Eldar refer you back to the 40K rulebook for rules on movement, so I'm standing by the position that you cannot move in the assault phase after turbo boosting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255263-the-relic/#findComment-3179834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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