Koremu Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I've just been reading through the rules for characters, and it occurs to me that the Humble Techmarine may have just become a really good and (fairly) cheap way to buff a unit. He comes with additional (high powered) shooting & CC attacks, which benefit from Precision, making him horrid to face at range, in CC or when snap-firing. He's an IC, so grants immunity to the inability to regroup due to casualties (which ATSKNF no longer gives us). He can repair your transports HP too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I was musing on this too, especially as artificer armour just became a lot harder to crack as well. Of course, the same question must still be asked, is he deserving of an Elites slot ahead of the more survivable Terminators, still pretty awesome Sternguard, and all our Dreads? Maybe at 2000pts when having him about to repair Hull Points on more important vehicles. Also, with the changes to Artillery, I can see there being more TFCs, which would therefore mean more Techmarines running around should the TFC die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You know, I also mused on this...and came to a very different conclusion. My techmarine's biggest highlights were him reassembling the gun on my Vindicator three turns in succession now and again. Now that's impossible, because of Hull Points. He might be useful in my old Vanilla lists, however, because the LR is AV14 and has 4 Hull Points...so if it takes an Immobilized early on, he might get it up and moving again before it's stripped of HP. And, as you said, he brings a decent amount of combat punch to a fist fight. I'd give him a PW and promote him to MotF in the vanilla dex. That extra wound can really help. ADDENDUM: For clarification, I now use the BA codex - in which Techmarines lack the Independent Character rule. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I was musing on this too, especially as artificer armour just became a lot harder to crack as well. Of course, the same question must still be asked, is he deserving of an Elites slot ahead of the more survivable Terminators, still pretty awesome Sternguard, and all our Dreads? Maybe at 2000pts when having him about to repair Hull Points on more important vehicles. Also, with the changes to Artillery, I can see there being more TFCs, which would therefore mean more Techmarines running around should the TFC die. The Artificier Armour is a good point, as it means the Techmarine can "soak" a challenge from a Power Sword (or other AP3) wielding character with a decent chance of surviving long enough to acquaint him with the Servo Harness at Initiative 1. I think he'll still be a decent pick in lower points games - how often at 1500 do you fill all three Elite slots? I'm not so sure about TFCs though. By the time they go down and release the Techmarine he's probably not that near to the thick of combat. You know, I also mused on this...and came to a very different conclusion. ADDENDUM: For clarification, I now use the BA codex - in which Techmarines lack the Independent Character rule. :) Yeah, the idea definitely won't work for the BA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Now you mention it, my 1750pt list only have 1 Elites slot filled. Maybe I'll stick in a Techmarine with power axe and servo-harness if I get the points, which could easily happen. I could even stick him in the Honour Guard unit, giving him more attacks and adding a bit of AP2 weaponry there. He can't be singled out in combat by challenges thanks to my Chapter Champion so can sit there merrily surviving blows then chopping away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Back when I was still using the vanilla dex, I put a techmarine in with my counts-as Calgar and the Vanguard in the LRR every time I took to the field. The techmarine was always a pleasant surprise in a fight. He could (and did) hold down units of Ork Boyz (the ones foolish enough not to bring a Klaw). Now he could easily soak a challenge even from the likes of Vulkan...and even ID him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Does this also include the Master of the Forge? I took him regularly in 5th and now that 6th has given him a much needed boost to survivability in CC I don't think he has any major drawbacks for his modest cost. Finally the Techmarine gets his chance to shine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Does this also include the Master of the Forge? Whenever I said "techmarine" in reference to my 5th Ed Vanguard, I always meant "Master of the Forge". That extra wound was so vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 You know, I also mused on this...and came to a very different conclusion. My techmarine's biggest highlights were him reassembling the gun on my Vindicator three turns in succession now and again. Now that's impossible, because of Hull Points. According to the new FAQ's, Techmarines may also repair hull points. That seems like a great bonus as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yes...absolutely. This is massive for Iron hands fans like myself. The MotF always had potential as a melee specialist, but the power weapon rules in the last edition made it a massive liability. He's finally turned into a viable frontline badass. He provides amazing overwatch support with the flamer, and gets to shoot another wep in addition to that (even on overwatch). For the sake of snap shots, remember that his plasma pistol is twin linked, so you double your chances of hitting with it. Both the power maul and power sword are good options, for him, especially when fighting low INIT enemies like orcs and necron, since it'll knock them down to INIT 1 and allow you to get your S8 Servo attacks. Powerswords will let you take out power armored Fists, hammers and axes before they can threaten your 2+ save. The cherry on top is that you have a 50% chance to repair your ride if you get it knocked up in transit. Techmarines can repair from inside. They really did get quite good. :P I just hope not everyone jumps on the bandwagon, cause i like being the "techmarine" guy. EDIT: Also, a few things to note. Repairs now take effect IMMEDIATELY. Previously you would be unable to repair a weapon and fire it the same turn. Now, if you repair, it's as if it was never even hit. Huge buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The cherry on top is that you have a 50% chance to repair your ride if you get it knocked up in transit. Knocked OUT....not knocked UP. The latter has a far different.......meaning than the former. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The cherry on top is that you have a 50% chance to repair your ride if you get it knocked up in transit. Knocked OUT....not knocked UP. The latter has a far different.......meaning than the former. <_< I lol'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I lol'd too. In other news, I'm seriously thinking of going thunder hammer on my MOTF. On the charge, that's five S8 AP2 attacks, and with a 2+ save, he doesn't really care about anything that's not going at the same Initiative as him anyway. The new CC AP system has definitely fixed one of his underlying issue -- lack of an Invul save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 :) *sigh* I guess I must have a slutty rhino... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I lol'd too. In other news, I'm seriously thinking of going thunder hammer on my MOTF. On the charge, that's five S8 AP2 attacks, and with a 2+ save, he doesn't really care about anything that's not going at the same Initiative as him anyway. The new CC AP system has definitely fixed one of his underlying issue -- lack of an Invul save. Just watch out for Monstrous creature duels. anything with smash is AP2 on all attacks at normal init and you cant take Look out sir in duels. Dark eldar also some some nasty high init, high AP tricks. These are all pretty situational, but things to look out for. all in all, SO much better! Keep in mind too, you can use a maul, axe or sword and get a bonus attack for your pistol. So you could have: Maul: 4xS6 I4 AP4 + 2xS8 I1 AP2 (+concussive) Sword: 4xS4 I4 AP3 + 2xS8 I1 AP2 Axe: 4xS5 I1 AP2 + 2xS8 I1 AP2 It gets wacky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I lol'd too. In other news, I'm seriously thinking of going thunder hammer on my MOTF. On the charge, that's five S8 AP2 attacks, and with a 2+ save, he doesn't really care about anything that's not going at the same Initiative as him anyway. The new CC AP system has definitely fixed one of his underlying issue -- lack of an Invul save. I actually recommend against this; he's got the servo harness, so he already has two S8 attacks at I1...he can also swing sooner with a power weapon...like a mini Logan Grimnar. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I lol'd too. In other news, I'm seriously thinking of going thunder hammer on my MOTF. On the charge, that's five S8 AP2 attacks, and with a 2+ save, he doesn't really care about anything that's not going at the same Initiative as him anyway. The new CC AP system has definitely fixed one of his underlying issue -- lack of an Invul save. I actually recommend against this; he's got the servo harness, so he already has two S8 attacks at I1...he can also swing sooner with a power weapon...like a mini Logan Grimnar. :) Yeah, but he's modeled with an axe. And I love that axe model. I don't like putting swords on my Iron Hands. . . sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I lol'd too. In other news, I'm seriously thinking of going thunder hammer on my MOTF. On the charge, that's five S8 AP2 attacks, and with a 2+ save, he doesn't really care about anything that's not going at the same Initiative as him anyway. The new CC AP system has definitely fixed one of his underlying issue -- lack of an Invul save. I actually recommend against this; he's got the servo harness, so he already has two S8 attacks at I1...he can also swing sooner with a power weapon...like a mini Logan Grimnar. ;) Yeah, but he's modeled with an axe. And I love that axe model. I don't like putting swords on my Iron Hands. . . sigh. Haha! too true...i can respect that. :D I modded all my powerweps to mechanicus axes before 6th, so i'll have some hard choices to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 just becuase it looks like an axe doesnt make it an axe, just call it a power stave or pike or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 just becuase it looks like an axe doesnt make it an axe, just call it a power stave or pike or something I just remembered that I picked up an Emperor's Champion somewhere a year or two back, so at least I've got a cool-looking sword to replace it with. Wrong arm though, so I'll be doing some swaps there. On the other side, I'm now wondering if it's worth it to hang on to the plasma pistol as a side arm. For Overwatch, I'll be firing the the flamer and plasma cutter. . . but the extra plasma shot at range might be worth it. . . . comments? Oh, and something else that occurred to me. At 2,000 points we double the FOC, right? So a MOTF, two five man sniper scout squads to fill the Troop requirement. . . . and TWELVE Dreadnoughts. Prolly couldn't fit 'em all unless you go up to 2,500, but still. 12. Like I needed an excuse to buy six more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 just becuase it looks like an axe doesnt make it an axe, just call it a power stave or pike or something Most people wouldnt care, but now that there are distinct differences between power weapon types you may run into some wysiwyg arguments with 'literalists'. some tournaments can be sticklers for stuff like that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 just becuase it looks like an axe doesnt make it an axe, just call it a power stave or pike or something Most people wouldnt care, but now that there are distinct differences between power weapon types you may run into some wysiwyg arguments with 'literalists'. some tournaments can be sticklers for stuff like that too. *I* am a stickler for that sort of thing. When a power weapon was just a power weapon, there was no issue. Now, if someone says "This axe is actually a sword," I'll give it to them for the first three months of 6th Edition. After that, there's no excuse for not switching the wargear out or just biting the bullet on what your models have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yeah, but he's modeled with an axe. And I love that axe model. I don't like putting swords on my Iron Hands. . . sigh. Amen to that. So they are now power axes? I'm OK with that. I don't think the change will make or break my armies. Anyone who is good enough to tell the difference in how their army operates should also be able to compensate for it! :P Oh, and something else that occurred to me. At 2,000 points we double the FOC, right? So a MOTF, two five man sniper scout squads to fill the Troop requirement. . . . and TWELVE Dreadnoughts. Prolly couldn't fit 'em all unless you go up to 2,500, but still. 12. Like I needed an excuse to buy six more. Yes, you are right. You need no excuse to buy more Dreadnoughts. I think I have 12 now as it is! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeStorm Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Thank you guy for this thread. i was about to cahnge my army cause i thought MoTF had lost his use. i run 5 dread one of is a venrable. with the nerf on vehicales i was looking at haveing to drop most of them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah...sadly ven dreads really did get the short end of the stick. I wonder if they'll correct that that with the new codices cause right now they're very pricey for what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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