Stormravens in 6th

[Robbie1984]

My biggest problem at the moment with them is more to do with the new reserve rules.

 

You can only have 50% of your army in reserve, so I you take 2 ravens each carrying a squad and a dread, you then need to have at least 6 units starting on the table.

 

And they do make ideal weapon platforms, but at 200pts each I can't help but feel they are a tad overpriced now.

[Ushtarador]

But units that must start the game in reservers don't count towards that limit. Now the question is how units inside transports that must start in reserve are treated, I'll have to read that up.

[Morticon]

But units that must start the game in reservers don't count towards that limit. Now the question is how units inside transports that must start in reserve are treated, I'll have to read that up.

This only really effects drop pods and I believe they're covered.

[Ushtarador]

hmm so units inside the stormraven count towards that limit? that would suck :X

[Robbie1984]

So if I have for example 8 units total, 2 of which are ravens, that means I can have 3 additional units in reserve (50% of all unit except for the ravens) or an extra 4 units in reserve (8 units total including the raven)?

 

Apologies if this seems a daft question, rules like this have never been my strong point :/

[Ushtarador]

OR do the units inside the ravens count as mandatory reserves and I can have an additional 1 unit in reserve ;P

[Brother_Angelus]

Things that MUST start in reserve (pods and ravens) don't count towards the total of units that is halved. As pods are dedicated transports, their units are also exempt.

 

So: Total number of units - Ravens - Pods inc. units = net total / 2 = must deploy on the table

[Robbie1984]

Thanks for clearing that up angelus!!

[old git]

Admittedly it was our first game of 6th, but...

 

We were playing the mission that goes the length of the table (against 1k sons). Turn 2 my 'raven comes on, goes 36" and took out two defilers in one spectacular round of shooting and then survived the rest of the game taking shots at a landraider and delivering the Death Co and chappy and dread. Quite awesome.

[SevenExxes]

Chaplains all got smacked with a nerfbat. Having an AP4 weapon makes them next to useless. In Lemartes case he is stuck with his crappy maul and as much as I like him he is subpar, anyone with a 3+ roll flips him the bird last week everything was frightened of him. 60% or more of your games will be against MEQ. AP4 does not cut it even with re-rolls and high strength. I am gutted I cant take Lemartes as much as I liked him but one door (Chaplains hit AP4) closes and the termi/corbs door opens.

With the mandatory raven reserve rule you cant go raven heavy either.

 

I am going to try assault termies with Corbulo. they will go in one raven. I have 2 ravens built both have hurricane bolters, MM and TL assault cannons. The rending TL asscan is very good now and shooting counts for a lot. Night fighting needs to be taken into account. Search lights need to be taken on as many vehicles as you can

 

Sorry but I have to disagree. Lemartes has I6, 5 attacks on the charge at S7 with rerolls to hit and to wound. He's wounding T4 models on a 2. That's pretty much 5 wounds guranteed. Then if he manages to get wounded and survive he gains +3A and +1S.

The maul also has concussion effect. How many times have you seen someone save 5 wounds on one model? And why must we constantly rely on power weapons? I think Lemartes just got slightly better considering we now have a challenge system.

[JamesI]

I've been considering using Ravens to carry on small jump pack units (DC, SG, HG mainly). Use skies of blood turn when you arrive from reserve. After that use it as a gun plane.

 

If the opponent has interceptor weapons, just don't put the jumpers on the transports then.

[Robbie1984]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

[Ushtarador]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

 

I'll be damned but I can't anything against your interpretation ^^ that would actually be huge, anyone else find something?

[Dark Legionnare]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

 

I think we may have a winner!

[teku]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

 

I'll be damned but I can't anything against your interpretation ^^ that would actually be huge, anyone else find something?

 

Yepz! Robbie1984 is right! page 79 in BRB. Dismembarking!

Hello stormravens!

[Robbie1984]

The only risk is they do need to sit inside through a turn of hostile fire, but zoom them on from reserve, end it's move roughly where you want to deploy, then sit through your opponents turn. Start of your next turn deploy the troops and/or dread, and your raven is free to do whatever you need it to!

[Jaarl Stormfang]

It's good, but correct me if I'm wrong - you lose 6" of movement towards your target?

 

Using hover: Storm raven moves 6", you disembark 6", charge 2d6 using assault ramps.

Using zoom: You disembark 6" charge 2d6

 

Means that on the turn the raven enters you'd have to fly it right next to what you want to charge.

 

The pre-zoom disembark will be useful however when your opponent has a lot of anti tank shots but very little skyfire (so hover would be v dangerous, but waiting around with units on board on the turn you enter wouldn't be too risky). Needless to say if they have lots of skyfire you want to skies of blood your units out as soon as you can.

[Joasht]

I was asking myself "how will my Stormraven ever be a flyer?" and the whole "come into reserves, disembark then fly around" kinda answers my question.

 

Pity that idea would work with Jump Packers but not so much Terminators, by virtue of the fact that if you disembark where you come in from reserves, that probably leaves your footslogging Terminators some ways off.

[himkano]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

 

I'll be damned but I can't anything against your interpretation ^^ that would actually be huge, anyone else find something?

 

Yepz! Robbie1984 is right! page 79 in BRB. Dismembarking!

Hello stormravens!

 

I hate to to do it, but I would say no. Page 80 "Models cannot embark upon, or disembark from, a zooming flyer." I suspect this is the same as flat out, if you disembark, you cannot move flat out later in your turn, if you disembark, you cannot "zoom" later in your turn

[Robbie1984]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

 

I'll be damned but I can't anything against your interpretation ^^ that would actually be huge, anyone else find something?

 

Yepz! Robbie1984 is right! page 79 in BRB. Dismembarking!

Hello stormravens!

 

I hate to to do it, but I would say no. Page 80 "Models cannot embark upon, or disembark from, a zooming flyer." I suspect this is the same as flat out, if you disembark, you cannot move flat out later in your turn, if you disembark, you cannot "zoom" later in your turn

 

Dammit, does that include disembarking through skies of blood though?? Our flying bricks are a royal pain to try and use as transports now...

[daboarder]

Interesting little rule here: if models disembark from a vehicle before the vehicle has moved, the vehicle can then move as normal afterwards.

 

So start of turn, troops disembark and can assault etc as normal, and the raven can stay in zoom mode. No need for skies of blood???

 

I'll be damned but I can't anything against your interpretation ^^ that would actually be huge, anyone else find something?

 

Yepz! Robbie1984 is right! page 79 in BRB. Dismembarking!

Hello stormravens!

 

I hate to to do it, but I would say no. Page 80 "Models cannot embark upon, or disembark from, a zooming flyer." I suspect this is the same as flat out, if you disembark, you cannot move flat out later in your turn, if you disembark, you cannot "zoom" later in your turn

 

Dammit, does that include disembarking through skies of blood though?? Our flying bricks are a royal pain to try and use as transports now...

 

No those type of rules have been specifically FAQ'd to still allow them to occur.

 

DOA units will also only scatter 1D6 with this method of deployment, could be good for HG SW squads.

[Robbie1984]

I'm tempted to try dropping a tactical termie squad and a termie sang priest out of a raven using skies of blood, right in the enemy dz. should cause them some problems?

[Sviox]

Im going to say that the lascannons are a good bet, even once enemy flyers are taken out, you can move on to enemy vehicles, so i would also say go multi melta, as the minimun 18 inch move, maximum 36 inch, u should be able to fire for double penetration(against flyers), plus with the bloodstrike missiles, the storm raven should rule the sky!

 

 

I'm also wondering if I should attach AC or LC to my SR. I got carried away to do some math-'o-hammer. With twin-linked AC vs. LC against different armor values, here is the results (average results per single shooting phase with full BS4, twin-linked and rending effect factored in):

 

AV10:

TL LC: 0.15 glancings, 0.74 penetrating, total 0.89 (loser)

TL AC: 0.49 glancings, 1.09 penetrating, total 1.58 (winner)

 

 

AV11:

TL LC: 0.15 glancings, 0.59 penetrating, total 0.74 (loser)

TL AC: 0.49 glancings, 0.59 penetrating, total 1.09 (winner)

 

 

AV12:

TL LC: 0.15 glancings, 0.44 penetrating, total 0.59 (draw)

TL AC: 0 glancings, 0.59 penetrating, total 0.59 (draw)

 

 

AV13:

TL LC: 0.15 glancings, 0.30 penetrating, total 0.44 (loser)

TL AC: 0.20 glancings, 0.40 penetrating, total 0.59 (winner)

 

 

AV14:

TL LC: 0.15 glancings, 0.15 penetrating, total 0.30 (loser)

TL AC: 0.20 glancings, 0.20 penetrating, total 0.40 (winner)

 

Based on the results, I for one will never ever again prefer LC over AC... Now the only unfactored benefit of LC is AP2, which means +1 in the damage table. However, AC also has AP2 for rending shots! Since in the calculations the only non-rending penetrating shots possible are against AV10 (0.49 non-rending and 0.59 rending penetrating hits on average) it doesn't look good for the poor lascannon.

 

EDIT: Small error there for calculating effectivity of non-rending shots. Below are correct values against AV10/AV11 which are affected by the error (AC got even better in comparison...).

TL AC AV10: 0.59 glancings, 1.19 penetrating, total 1.78 (winner)

TL AC AV11: 0.59 glancings, 0.59 penetrating, total 1.19 (winner)

[darth_giles]

I'm also wondering if I should attach AC or LC to my SR. I got carried away to do some math-'o-hammer. With twin-linked AC vs. LC against different armor values, here is the results (average results per single shooting phase with full BS4, twin-linked and rending effect factored in):

Good thing is its a free swap. Run a proxy one for a few games trying each configuration and see how things go.

[Drunken Angel]

Chaplains all got smacked with a nerfbat. Having an AP4 weapon makes them next to useless. In Lemartes case he is stuck with his crappy maul and as much as I like him he is subpar, anyone with a 3+ roll flips him the bird last week everything was frightened of him. 60% or more of your games will be against MEQ. AP4 does not cut it even with re-rolls and high strength. I am gutted I cant take Lemartes as much as I liked him but one door (Chaplains hit AP4) closes and the termi/corbs door opens.

With the mandatory raven reserve rule you cant go raven heavy either.

 

I am going to try assault termies with Corbulo. they will go in one raven. I have 2 ravens built both have hurricane bolters, MM and TL assault cannons. The rending TL asscan is very good now and shooting counts for a lot. Night fighting needs to be taken into account. Search lights need to be taken on as many vehicles as you can

 

Sorry but I have to disagree. Lemartes has I6, 5 attacks on the charge at S7 with rerolls to hit and to wound. He's wounding T4 models on a 2. That's pretty much 5 wounds guranteed. Then if he manages to get wounded and survive he gains +3A and +1S.

The maul also has concussion effect. How many times have you seen someone save 5 wounds on one model? And why must we constantly rely on power weapons? I think Lemartes just got slightly better considering we now have a challenge system.

 

I am happy to be wrong ;) Lemartes is looking better I dont need much of an excuse to continue taking him and initial game reports seem to be good for keeping him. It is as you say the buff and the fact he re-rolls everything and can easily drop an enemy IC's Initiative that still scares everyone else. He only needs to get through once with that maul it seems.