6th..... Are jump pack assault marines any good?

[Robbie1984]

I've been thinking about a 10 man dc squad with bolters and no jump packs, and to add some punch just takin a razorback. From what I've seen there are still no rules to state that a dedicated transport must be big enough to fit the squad it's attached to.

 

And for anti mech work, don't over look the basic tac squad, cheapest las cannons in the codex iirc.

[Atlantic]

The more I think about this, I don't see any reason to take more than two units of jumpers.

 

I know they are fast, flexible, scoring units, but if you are camping objectives with a 235 point squad with only a 12" shooting range, something is wrong there.

 

In 5th, I was happy to charge anything with my jumpers but death cult or gk. Now, I don't want to charge much of anything. Best case scenario is to hit at the same time and slug it out attrition style.

 

From where I sit, the list of things you want no part of in close combat is much longer than it used to be. (some of this is because you will get massacred, others because it will bleed your points and bog you down)

 

Thunderwolves

Space Wolf units with counter attack

GK

MEQ with rapid fire weapons or templates (you'll win the fight, but lose men before combat, most likely get bogged down as they 3+ everything)

Monstrous Creatures (can't out I or hit at the same time as them)

Terminators of any stripe

Bikers (True T 5, go go power fist...)

 

I'm sure there is more and my brain hasn't found them all this morning.

 

Out assault squads with priest are just too damn expensive to be this limited.

 

Regardless of Necron fears and the change to hull points, razorbacks may be even more important in this edition. You can't immobilize them with a glance. A 5 man assault squad in a razorback with a melta gun, pw, and special gun on the truck is only 180.

 

Cheaper, and faster than a 10 man jump squad with melta guns, power fist or weapon, and a priest packing a special weapon.

 

 

If we are going to continue to play a heavy assault style army, it is going to have to be with DC (who will still struggle, but have a crazy amount of attacks), Terminators (take the shooty kind though as they all have pfists and still shoot...), or Sanguinary Guard (who aren't as good as they were arguably and can't punch through av2 depending on weapon debate).

 

 

I don't think this is as bad as how BT had to go crazy shooty, during 5th, but it is not good by any stretch.

[SnorriSnorrison]

The more I think about this, I don't see any reason to take more than two units of jumpers.

 

I know they are fast, flexible, scoring units, but if you are camping objectives with a 235 point squad with only a 12" shooting range, something is wrong there.

 

Because you don't sit on objectives from turn three. That's just not how we roll. We capture an objective with jumpers and let someone sit on 'em, maybe a Tactical squad. Jumpers never sit on objectives.

 

 

In 5th, I was happy to charge anything with my jumpers but death cult or gk. Now, I don't want to charge much of anything. Best case scenario is to hit at the same time and slug it out attrition style.

Fortune favours the brave. Don't say 'no' unless you've tried about 20 times and have failed every single attempt. :)

 

 

From where I sit, the list of things you want no part of in close combat is much longer than it used to be. (some of this is because you will get massacred, others because it will bleed your points and bog you down)

 

Thunderwolves

Space Wolf units with counter attack

GK

MEQ with rapid fire weapons or templates (you'll win the fight, but lose men before combat, most likely get bogged down as they 3+ everything)

Monstrous Creatures (can't out I or hit at the same time as them)

Terminators of any stripe

Bikers (True T 5, go go power fist...)

 

I'm sure there is more and my brain hasn't found them all this morning.

 

I've been assaulting all of those in 5th, and not a single time were my assault squads without a backup CC unit, be it a SG or DC, or a goddamn Dreadnought. If you let your RAS go unsupported, you're gonna have a bad time. Still, wouldn't worry about rapid fire weapns and overwatch really. Some wimpy boltguns and one/two special weapons won't ruin anyone's day with FnP.

 

Bikers are still going to die from S8 AP2, unless you mean Nobz, which you should not be assaulting with just a RAS anyway.

 

Out assault squads with priest are just too damn expensive to be this limited.

 

Regardless of Necron fears and the change to hull points, razorbacks may be even more important in this edition. You can't immobilize them with a glance. A 5 man assault squad in a razorback with a melta gun, pw, and special gun on the truck is only 180.

 

Cheaper, and faster than a 10 man jump squad with melta guns, power fist or weapon, and a priest packing a special weapon.

 

 

nah, not really. Any glance takes of a hull point, that's a 6 for heavy bolters and the like, not talking about real anti-tank weaponry. These things still fold like paper.

 

 

If we are going to continue to play a heavy assault style army, it is going to have to be with DC (who will still struggle, but have a crazy amount of attacks), Terminators (take the shooty kind though as they all have pfists and still shoot...), or Sanguinary Guard (who aren't as good as they were arguably and can't punch through av2 depending on weapon debate).

 

 

I don't think this is as bad as how BT had to go crazy shooty, during 5th, but it is not good by any stretch.

 

SG have become better, so have DC. Terminators are what they should be right now, and it's also a buff for our guys. Still, all our Meltas from 5th will do some good damage against Terminators, or even plasma-pistols will do their part. There's plenty in our dex to counter such things, even with our assault squads.

 

 

Snorri

[Robbie1984]

Exactly what snorri said.

 

First few games I'm going to be running RAS with one squad backing up the other, I used to take down termies through melta guns and then sheer number of attacks, we has the speed to pick and choose who we assault, so take advantage of that and save the termies until last of needed!

 

The only changes I think I'll be making at the moment is possibly the sarges wargear, currently I use fists, but I might swap that for a storm shield and meltabombs, Im not quite sure yet.

[Atlantic]

I agree with everything you said, but that is not what I am talking about.

 

What I'm struggling to articulate is we were an assault oriented army who made dramatic use of jump pack marines.

 

Said jump pack marines have been watered down a good bit. Losing the I5 and the changes to jump packs, pw not being able to ap2, and the other 6th edition changes weaken them significantly.

 

If we continue to run 4 + squads of RAS and expect them to perform as they did, we will be sorely disappointed.

 

The cost of the squads and the independent characters is probably overcosted for what they do in this edition.

 

It is way too early to call this, but I think effective lists will not be carried with RAS serving as the backbone of the army.

 

You will need to take dedicated assault troops (terminators, dc, and SG) to do the assaulting and support them with other stuff (not RAS).

 

 

By the very nature of this situation, (and the fact that our best IC's might be foot sloggers) our status as an "assault army" is going to be diluted.

 

 

I'm not saying don't use them. I'm saying don't take more than a couple of them, and they may not be worth the points.

[Shmoe]

all right... first, I have to ask. Everyone here knows that every army in the game has to make changes to their strategies right??? No single army is going to play the same ever again.

 

I like the changes 6th made because it forces people to take more options. It allows for greater creativity.

I was always taught that if something is broken, dont whine about it, go fix it.

 

With that said... Support your Jump Troops. It's not hard. And for goodness sake... keep them out of the open so much. advance behind vehicles or while moving through cover. Yes, it requires more tactical thinking. You can no longer laugh while you deep strike an entire army wherever you want it and your soldiers are no longer stronger, faster then everyone elses.

 

What your troops are, are quick and stronger then normal. They can shrug off shots that would ignore another marines armor save. And they can strike at Initiative 10. Trust in your armor and you will be ok. When I played Imperial Guard I had one mentality. I would never make an armor save or a cover save. So I found ways around having to rely on them so much.

 

What I am trying to say is, yes there are changes. Changes everyone has to face and adapt too. So let's skip the part where we complain and go right into adaptation because this is what the game has become. 5th is gone and we need to survive in a world of 6th edition

[Bloodsurfer]

I completely agree with Shmoe and think that any negativity would cease if people simply saw the opportunity that NOT having four full units of Assault Marines affords us. We have so many viable options, now more then ever because spamming anything across the entirety of the game has taken a hit. I can search out the tactical flexibility of a diverse Blood Angels force rather then staring at 40 Marines that all look the exact same.

 

Though in all honesty I can completely understand this argument from most DOA player's perspectives as they now have two full units of extra Assault Marines where as I stopped at two just as 6th came out. Lucky me... Anyway, lets get to planning out how to support those two units of RAS, jumper or not with Devs, or Mech or anything our hearts desire and realize the advantages that we have been given, rather then what has been CHANGED. ( I am not going to say taken away).

[Drunken Angel]

Okay im up for it please feel free to comment if you wish in army lists First try at a 6th Ed list with SG comments please

 

I think 3 troops of SG might be better even with a furioso dread instead

[Darklighter]

I had a few games last night nothing competitive just rules testing no random terrain or objectives or allies and forts. each game was old school pitched battle and to the death 500 points each side with only one troop needed to be selected played on a 4x4 board.

 

I ran an assault squad with flamer gun, melta gun and a Sargent with power axe and infernus pistol, all jump packed. I sanguinary priest with power sword jump pack and a Libby with force sword, jump pack, mastery 2 and two divination powers.

 

 

My first game was against Necrons who had two 5 man squads of warriors a doomsday ark, 3 tomb blades and an overlord.

 

I rolled powers and got a 4++ and ignore cover power. Warlord powers for both side made no difference to the game.

 

My opponent won the roll off for first turn and set up mainly in cover (nice) with the ark in a back corner.

 

I set up behind some terrain to help me take that first round of shooting as the power couldn't be activated until my turn. I failed to take the initiative.

 

He took full advantage of being able to move and shoot with his warriors and went to town on my poor squad. I'd placed the characters to the back of the squad and let the fodder take the hits. With the new wound allocation rules feel no pain is awesome even if it is only a 5+! I lost only two men from all the shots incoming! My turn didn't got very well at all. I used my packs to get me close but failed my power roll for the invulnerable save! I shoot at the warriors in cover killing only one of them!

 

Turn two saw my sarge picked out of the crowd followed by my priest and all my special weapons. After some nasty shooting from Tesla weapons I was down to my Libby and three men! My shooting saw a tome blade downed I then assaulted killing one more. I scored nothing with my HoW. He killed one more marine to make combat a tie.

 

Turn three saw his Overlord and warrior squad assault and challenge my Libby. I accepted and killed him with a force roll. The rest of my squad failed to wound then died leaving me with just a man left!

 

Turn four saw the last wound taken off my Libby with a lucky hit from a tomb blade the only thing to hit him at all that turn!

 

Obviously not the list to be taking against Necrons! But I did like how wound allocation worked to make most of the enemy shooting much less effective than it would have been in 5th. I also liked how challenges work I think it adds an new dimension to the game.

 

 

Game two was against a Tyranid list with lots and lots of witch fire! It's had three zonathropes each on there own with two powers from three different schools of magic (I think just to test them). He also ran an infiltrating squad of genestealers an outflanking one with the Prime (Who rolled to ability to outflank from warlord powers). Both genestealer squads where 5 man.

 

My powers where the ability to re-roll hits and wounds for the Libby and the other one fore the squad to re-roll hits. Warlord one for me made no difference to the game.

 

I won the roll for first turn and deployed front and center not worried to much about cover. My first mistake was letting enough cover to be out of sight so that some 'stealers could infiltrate 12" away! I kept my finger firmly crossed for when he tried to steal the initiative. My first turn was an easy move I could his thropes at the back of the board to far away for now so I jumped over to the 'stealers and shoot them off the board with my re-rolls helping me over kill the entire squad. His turn saw him move up and cast powers like a mad man I used my master level 2 to deny the witch two out of three times the last power was a nova effect that only killed two marines!.

 

Turn two I ran up shot one 'thrope taking a wound off it (Yes!). I then multi-charged two of them. Killing both with my HoW attacks before needing to swing any weapons (nice!). Shadow of the warp saw my not using any of my powers this turn, not that I needed them. My opponents turn was awful his reserves refused to turn up. He then tried to use a power with his last 'thrope I again denied the witch, much to my amusement. He then assaulted me (I forgot to overwatch) but annihilated him with no casualties.

 

Turn three I moved to the middle of the board in a circle with my Sargent priest and Libby in the middle and waited for last gene stealer squad to arrive. They never arrived......

 

 

......Ever!

 

 

In the end I lost very few models. I found that picking between jump move and jump assault to be not that much of a hindrance. I loved HoW! And a high mastery level Libby is a must have to help ward off enemy wrong doings! I found shadow of the warp to be extremely powerful especially as they still get to deny your power as well! I never got to swing my power axe so I can't say how that works. but I love how the game flows. we got 6 games done one after another (thee players two each) in the same time it normally takes us to have a 1500 point game. Warlord powers are nice but mostly useless. I rolled on the command tree both times and got nothing I could use!

 

All in all I very much enjoyed this editions introduction and I'm very much looking forward to more games.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Thanks for the insights, Darklighter. Very interesting. Can't wait to get my hands on the small rulebook. ^_^

 

Regarding Warlord rules: can you choose on which "tree" you roll for your special rules or do you at first roll for the "tree" and then for the special ability? Would suck mad :cuss if so.

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Snorri

[Jarakin]

FnP and cover

I think the FnP rules probably work in our favour however the cover reduction is probably going to neutralize this bonus!

No, why? Yeah, cover is reduced to a 5+, but now we can use FnP against most of the things which ignored our armour in 5th! Plasma for example will be big this editionand we have two 5+ saves to get around it in the best case. Better than a single 4+, I think. :cuss

 

 

Hang on, cover saves are in addition to FNP and/or armour saves? Also, FNP only kicks in if armour is ignored or is a higher save than 5+ (presumably as a 3+ armour, 5+ fnp and 5+ cover save stacked in a row would be insane!)? Is this new? If not, my gaming group have been playing it wrong in 5th... Also, where do invuln saves fit in here, I'm so confused... ^_^

[knife&fork]

all right... first, I have to ask. Everyone here knows that every army in the game has to make changes to their strategies right???

 

Everyone except SW :) Grey hunters, TWC and long fang spam seems like it will work just fine. Priests are even better than before. The only thing they might have to worry about is getting some dedicated anti air.

[SnorriSnorrison]

FnP and cover

I think the FnP rules probably work in our favour however the cover reduction is probably going to neutralize this bonus!

No, why? Yeah, cover is reduced to a 5+, but now we can use FnP against most of the things which ignored our armour in 5th! Plasma for example will be big this editionand we have two 5+ saves to get around it in the best case. Better than a single 4+, I think. :)

 

 

Hang on, cover saves are in addition to FNP and/or armour saves? Also, FNP only kicks in if armour is ignored or is a higher save than 5+ (presumably as a 3+ armour, 5+ fnp and 5+ cover save stacked in a row would be insane!)? Is this new? If not, my gaming group have been playing it wrong in 5th... Also, where do invuln saves fit in here, I'm so confused... ;)

 

No, no. I just meant that you used to have armour save/coversave and then FnP if the weapon fired at you wasn't AP1/2 or double strength. Now, we get FnP against AP1 and 2, so a unit in cover has a 5+ coversave and a 5+ FnP whereas in 5th edition you only got one 4+ save for being in cover.

 

 

Snorri

[Ciaphas Cain X]

I believe he's referring to the fact that we get a 5+ FNP save out of cover against almost anything, and then a 5+ in cover against anything including instant death. And in a scenario where an armor save isn't possible it would go Invul save, then FNP save, or if there was no Invul save, Cover save, then FNP save. You can't take both a Cover and Invul save, you just take which one is better. With an armor save, it's simply 3+ Armor, then 3+ FNP (You always take the better out of the two armor and invul saves)

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by Snorri! :)

[Jarakin]

FnP and cover

I think the FnP rules probably work in our favour however the cover reduction is probably going to neutralize this bonus!

No, why? Yeah, cover is reduced to a 5+, but now we can use FnP against most of the things which ignored our armour in 5th! Plasma for example will be big this editionand we have two 5+ saves to get around it in the best case. Better than a single 4+, I think. :)

 

 

Hang on, cover saves are in addition to FNP and/or armour saves? Also, FNP only kicks in if armour is ignored or is a higher save than 5+ (presumably as a 3+ armour, 5+ fnp and 5+ cover save stacked in a row would be insane!)? Is this new? If not, my gaming group have been playing it wrong in 5th... Also, where do invuln saves fit in here, I'm so confused... :)

 

No, no. I just meant that you used to have armour save/coversave and then FnP if the weapon fired at you wasn't AP1/2 or double strength. Now, we get FnP against AP1 and 2, so a unit in cover has a 5+ coversave and a 5+ FnP whereas in 5th edition you only got one 4+ save for being in cover.

 

 

Snorri

 

Gotcha. Phew. ;)

[Telemicus]

I've been toying with the idea of bringing sniper scouts along with assaults and tacticals.

 

The precision shot rules are pretty nice (it seems only characters get 'Look out Sir!', so a special weapon guy can be hit without recourse), along with rending and a straight-up 4+ to wound makes these guys look pretty good for 90 pts for 5 with camo cloaks. Not amazing, or even good for every list, but they certainly look like they got buffed on paper.

[Darklighter]

Thanks for the insights, Darklighter. Very interesting. Can't wait to get my hands on the small rulebook. ;)

 

Regarding Warlord rules: can you choose on which "tree" you roll for your special rules or do you at first roll for the "tree" and then for the special ability? Would suck mad :) if so.

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Snorri

 

You're very welcome. :D

 

Yes you get to pick what table to roll on, but not everything is that good. So you can end up with some totally usless abilities for the Warlord. I ended up with an extra dice for my run moves that I never made and in the second game a +1 to my assault range, but with a jump pack re-roll it makes this fairly pointless.

[Pathstrider]

Because you don't sit on objectives from turn three. That's just not how we roll. We capture an objective with jumpers and let someone sit on 'em, maybe a Tactical squad. Jumpers never sit on objectives.

I've been assaulting all of those in 5th, and not a single time were my assault squads without a backup CC unit, be it a SG or DC, or a goddamn Dreadnought.

Snorri,

 

If I may, could I ask a question - Could you expand on what are you using RAS for? All those quotes are telling me what other units are doing, but I'm not clear on what your RAS are doing.

 

I'm of a similar opinion on RAS as Atlantic, except for the fact I largerly thought that way in 5th edition. I tend to use my RAS to deliver melta to targets and then only to charge non-combat squads. I stay clear of any assault geared squad, and I can only think that goes double now that powerfists on sergants seems like a bad idea.

 

Many thanks,

 

Mark

[Plague Angel]

Said jump pack marines have been watered down a good bit. Losing the I5 and the changes to jump packs, pw not being able to ap2, and the other 6th edition changes weaken them significantly.

 

I just don't see it.

 

I'll give you that losing the I5 from Furious Charge is a blow, but here's the thing: you should never assume that your RAS is going to have Furious Charge anyways. Sure it's possible, even easily possible. But the Priest could die, or be needed elsewhere. You could fail (I mean, "pass") your Red Thirst roll. FC is a bonus and a valuable one, but I would never consider it a default assumption when considering what I want an Assault Squad to do in my next game.

 

The "changes to jump packs" got weakened not at all. You can either purposefully curtail your movement (and there are situations where 6" is all you need in the first place, AND you don't invite terrain tests upon yourself) and get all sorts of new bonuses. Or, you can move 12" just like we used to, but miss out on all the new bonuses that we never had last edition on the first place (so you don't "lose" anything). So in other words: jump packs can function 1) identically to last edition, or 2) with a new tactical option.

 

Power weapons are able to be AP2, if you take an axe. But even excepting that, let's assume a power sword: that only affects 2 attacks (or 3 attacks with a pistol, and +1 on the charge) out of the potential 21 (31 on the charge). 6/7 attacks are, and always have been, AP- either way, and AP3 will still work exactly the same against MEQ as it used to. Was everyone else really charging their RAS at Terminators to begin with? I certainly wasn't.

 

I don't know what you mean by "other changes" so I can't respond to those.

 

Really, the only change in RAS that will affect how I use them is the I5 change, and like I said, I never relied on that being always present either.

[mlund]

They definitely don't function identically as a low end, but for the same reason standard charges don't function identically. The change to random charge ranges means while 5E assault marines had an 18" threat range 12" move + assault now fails at 18" 28% of the time - not counting losing your primary charging model due to snap-fire. It's the same problem with all assault units, but Jump Packs represent and even greater investment of points caught up in the crazy risk escalation.

 

- Marty Lund

[Plague Angel]

It's just another dynamic. I play Warhammer more than 40k, so I've been used to it for a while. I understand needing the adjustment, but I really find it more enjoyable.

 

We've gone from a static 18" threat to a range of anywhere between 8" — 24". Those are extremes: 8" is if you moved 6", rolled double-1s, then rerolled double 1s a second time; 24" is if you moved 12" and then rolled double 6s. So you have to be much more aware of the Movement phase, both in your own and opponents' phases.

 

It's game-wide, though, so it's hard for me to especially measure RAS by it. Because the same thing applies to literally every other unit in the game, it's not like you could avoid the "nerf" by taking a different unit (or even codex) instead. Even if you switch to a solely shooting army, you still have to deal with the possibility of a traditionally slow unit catching you in a massive and unexpectedly high charge roll.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Because you don't sit on objectives from turn three. That's just not how we roll. We capture an objective with jumpers and let someone sit on 'em, maybe a Tactical squad. Jumpers never sit on objectives.

I've been assaulting all of those in 5th, and not a single time were my assault squads without a backup CC unit, be it a SG or DC, or a goddamn Dreadnought.

Snorri,

 

If I may, could I ask a question - Could you expand on what are you using RAS for? All those quotes are telling me what other units are doing, but I'm not clear on what your RAS are doing.

 

I'm of a similar opinion on RAS as Atlantic, except for the fact I largerly thought that way in 5th edition. I tend to use my RAS to deliver melta to targets and then only to charge non-combat squads. I stay clear of any assault geared squad, and I can only think that goes double now that powerfists on sergants seems like a bad idea.

 

Many thanks,

 

Mark

 

Well, I haven't played any games in 6th right now, so I'll be careful with any speculations here. However, from the games in 5th I know that we still have an edge over every other marine army with our assault squads. Grey Hunters are a cheap mix of Tactical- and assault squads, but the new vehicle rules mean that our jumpers are better in assault, so that's what they should do.

 

We still can engage troop choices(safe for termis) of other armies, and we will do so in future unless something really stupid happens with the rules, which is unlikely. No init boost is crap, overwatch seems a great burden and sniping out Sergeants or even priests appears to be the end of assault squads as we knew them from 5th. And it is true that they are not as powerful as they were, however they are still powerful enough to take on Grey Knight Strike Squads(yeah I said it) with the new FnP alone.

 

After this quite long introduction (:)), to your question:

RAS are a backbone of our armies, who said that your spine only got one bone? :P They apply pressure on the flanks, deepstrikew next to tanks and crack them open, they add bodies of jumping troops to even out the even higher point costs of our elite units. Holding objectives is not in the style of an assault squad, they clear objectives and move along.

They are able to fire when Tacs are still sitting in their Rhino because it moved over 6"(I mean what was GW thinking? Seriously?). They overwhelm MEQ as well as other troops choice. Marine Tactical squads? No problem. Grey hunters? Higher resiliance over the C:SM marines, but then everything is higher than zero. Orks? Hell yeah bring it on. (D)Eldar? Not even worth mentioning, same with Guard. Tanks? 2 Meltaguns are your friend. Terminators? 2 Plasmaguns and a PP for good measure.

 

I use them for assault and to support my other units. Clear building, pop a tank, lock shooty units in CC.

 

Fortes fortuna adiuvat. Wer wagt, gewinnt. Fortune favours the brave.

 

Before you listen to somebody telling you what not to do with your assault squads, better find it out for yourself. Especially now that a new edition is out. :(

 

 

 

Snorri

[Pathstrider]

Thanks for the reply, Snori - I trust my own tabletop experience, but it's always nice to hear other people articulate their approach.

 

Actually, I don't think there's as much difference to how we use assault squads as initially seemed.

 

Mark

[SnorriSnorrison]

You're welcome, man. That's what forums like this are for. ;)

[Chaplain Admetus]

I tried using them this evening. Was within 12" of a grey hunter squad, so I decided to move 6" towards them. 6" charge on 2 dice, with a re-roll, and hammer of wrath attacks. Sounds good, right? 1 and a 2 for my charge roll. That's ok, that's what the re-roll's for. Snake eyes. :) I think that given the choice, getting close and guaranteeing the charge is better than trying for the extra I10 attacks. If you're relying on those to tip the combat, then either its a situation you shouldn't be getting your assault squad into, or you're desperate.

 

I also have a tactical squad as objective campers, but sometimes the assault squad will have to do it. I tend to run a jump assault squad, rhino assault squad and tac assault squad, and often the latter 2 will get taken down. Fortunately we were playing Big Guns Never Tire, and I was able to win on the back of killing longfangs... in 5th edition, I'd have been forced to abandon my objective (in his DZ) and make a play for his (somehow in mine...) to take the win, as we held 1 primary objective each in the end.

 

The best use for jump-assault marines, I've found in 5th, and I think it'll work for 6th, is to send them in to hammer things, and once they get whittled down, bring them back to an objective. Use their mobility to make late breaks for objectives that are otherwise out of the game...if its 3 objectives, I always try and get one far away from the other 2, because chances are I can dictate the fighting over 2 objectives and make a late break for #3, or if they devote a decent proportion to taking #3 then use numerical superiority to overwhelm 1 and 2.