How to tool Paladins in 6edt

[GOFADK]

Hi everyone

 

How would you tool op 5 paladins and 10 paladins with the new core rulebook in mind?

 

- GOFADK

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Paladins should roll with hammers if you expect enemy Terminators, halberds if you don't. Psycannons are a given

[GOFADK]

Paladins should roll with hammers if you expect enemy Terminators, halberds if you don't. Psycannons are a given

I was thinking a mix of 1 Hammer and 4 Halberds for 5 man and 2:8 in a 10 man unit.

But what about Swords?

[nurglez]

My 5man pally squad has 3 halberds, 1 hammer 1 sword. My 10man has 2 swords, 2 hammers 1 falchions and 5 halberds. As they are assembled like this and commission painted, I shall be leaving them like this :D

[Abaddonshand]

I have 4 paladins ATM, 2 w/ falchions, 2 w/ swords. They are my grandmasters retainers, so will only see action at 3000pts, in a raven along with a Libby too. For modelling purposes/ flexibility, I'm going to expand them to 10 men. The other 6 will be apothecary w/ warding stave, banner bearer, 2 psycannon & hammer (one will double as an OM Inquisitor), and 2 psycannon & halberd.

 

It might not be the most efficient setup, but I like the modelling opportunity it provides, and in my armies fluff I see all of the paladins being almost uniquely equipped, as this emphasises their status as individual characters.

[adamv6]

Tooling them up for wound allocation is now longer of any significance IMHO.

 

What you have to consider for close combat now are 4 factors;

 

How many models in the opposition strike above I4?

How many models in the opposition force are armed with AP2 weapons?

How many models in the opposition force are wearing +2 save armour?

Which models do I put into base contact?

 

Its exceedingly unlikely(?) that you are going to find more than 2-3 models in an army that are armed with AP2 weapons and strike above I4.

 

It is however more likely to meet a 5 model squad with AP2, I1 and +2 save. General rule (IMHO) is going to be shoot them to death before they get close, and them hit them with as many attacks as possible.

 

Picking your fights is going to be critical, and from this aspect 6th Ed is more about good tactics than a great army list.

 

My build for a 5man unit will be;

 

2 NFS / SB

1 NFH / SB

1 NDH / SB

1 NDH / Psycannon

 

And for a 10 man squad

 

4 NFS / SB

2 NFH / SB

1 NFH / Banner

1 NFH / Psycannon

1 NDH / Psycannon

1 NDH / SB

 

Unless someone corrects me (I read the FAQ and can't see anything), we still get +4 invun saves on NFS in CC on our Termies / Paladins. The guys armed with the trusty sword are going into combat first to make base contact. They can take the +4 invuns if needed.

 

The Halberds are there to challenge any characters at I5 and above, with the Banner adding the 4th attack and instant hammerhand.

 

The banner is my opinion is a huge bonus now in 6th. An Extra attack on a Paladin / Terminator squad and no worries about falling for perils (which you now getNO save from)

[Cmdr Shepard]

The Halberds are there to challenge any characters at I5 and above, with the Banner adding the 4th attack and instant hammerhand.

 

The banner is my opinion is a huge bonus now in 6th. An Extra attack on a Paladin / Terminator squad and no worries about falling for perils (which you now getNO save from)

Unless I lost something Banner just make the unit to auto pass the check for the activation of force weapons, not of any power...

+1 Attack for every model is worth per se, though :)

[adamv6]

Cmdr Shepard, you are right, not great wording by me Still useful to not have to worry about activating weapons, which is after all a psychic test :)

[Raus]

Group of 5:

 

Psycannon / Halberd

Psycannon /Halberd

Stormbolter / Hammer

Stormbolter / Halberd

Stormbolter / Halberd

 

Group of 10

 

Apotecary

Psycannon / Halberd

Psycannon /Halberd

Psycannon / Hammer

Psycannon /Hammer

Stormbolter / Hammer

Stormbolter / Halberd

Stormbolter / Halberd

Stormbolter / Halberd

Stormbolter / Warding Staff

[Cmdr Shepard]

Cmdr Shepard, you are right, not great wording by me Still useful to not have to worry about activating weapons, which is after all a psychic test :)

Indeed. I strongly agree with you. Beside you get even +1 attack for every model, even though you lost a 2, 3 in charge, Force Weapon attacks but, in 10 men units, you gain 9 more (+1 non force weapon attack)

[WhoaDirty]

My build for a 5man unit will be;

 

2 NFS / SB

1 NFH / SB

1 NDH / SB

1 NDH / Psycannon

 

And for a 10 man squad

 

4 NFS / SB

2 NFH / SB

1 NFH / Banner

1 NFH / Psycannon

1 NDH / Psycannon

1 NDH / SB

 

You will definitely want two Psycannons for every five Paladins. :)

[adamv6]

WhoaDirty, you're not wrong, and I always forget that. The perils of posting from work :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Btw, do people think its hilarious we can challenge with a warding stave now? 2++ will tie up all but the most fighty characters for at least a turn or two, thus completely taking them out of the combat. Also, every time you are challenged, every Paladin can be a valid opponent, as they are all characters. So, depending on what your opponent is (a powerfist TDA Sarge, a powerfist PA Sarge etc), you can choose what to do.

[thor1234]

what about tooling a unit for tournament play?? as you cant pick and choose before each battle how would you do it?

 

I was thinking for a unit of 5:

2 Paladins W/Hammers

2 Paladins W/Halberds

1 Paladin W/Warding Stave

2 of these have Psycannons

 

A unit of ten would double the hammers to current weapon counts, an apothecary and a banner, instead of a stave a sword thrown in for ap2

like this:

4 Paladins W/Hammers MC??

3 W/Halberds

apothecary W/Sword/Warding Stave would he be OK in challenges do you think??

1 Banner

1 Paladin W/Sword/Staved depending on Apothecary

4 psycannons

 

how do they sound??

[YourMumRang]

Whatever you do, Mastercraft those Psycannons. I've been running some Pallies and my GOD that shooting is scary!

[Caius]

I've played a total of one 6th game with my Paladins but I was pretty satisfied with how they were equipped.

 

The Warding Staff was very helpful in close combat and helped absorb a lot of Power Fist attacks from tactical marines. This is because of the new Look out Sarge rule that allows the Warding Staff to take the wound on a +4 roll from any other Paladin. If not for the 2+ invulnerable save I think my squad would likely have lost the assault so I consider it well worth the points. What also helped was that there was an Inquisitor in the unit and my opponent allocated a few wounds to it. Since Independent Characters can be protected on a +2 Look out Sarge roll it was easy to put a few wounds onto the Warding Stave Paladin.

 

Psycannons are (as before) fairly decent and because Paladins are characters they can make Precision Shots. It's nice to try to force saves on models with special weapons. I hoped for more from the Precision Shots though in the game I played but you only get a precise shot on a To Hit roll of 6 and the psycannon only rends on a To Wound roll of 6. The odds are pretty low that you will get a precise rending shot. Mastercrafting them is good. I think it should always be done.

 

Although Draigo doesn't technically count as equipment he was useful in keeping the squad he joined alive from several rounds of high strength shooting. He made a few Look out Sarge checks to draw lascannon fire from my Paladins and because he has T5 Lascannon shots do not count as being instant death wounds against him so he can still make his Feel No Pain save against them.

 

Feel no Pain improving so that you can make it against plasma shots (even if it is only a 5+ save now) is nice and I like the Apothecary even in small squads.

 

Because of the new AP values of weapons I think it is a must to have at least one hammer in the squad so that they can deal with enemy terminators.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I still don't think the Apothecary is really worth it. He's an immensely expensive character (130pts base, which is a lot for a two-wound hero). You can buy nearly three more Paladins for the same price. Larger squads are better with Paladins.

 

With Tactical Sarges, just challenge them out using the warding stave dude. If he refuses, he can't attack with the Sarge. If he accepts, you shrug off the powerfist on a 2+ and he gets squished if you roll a 3+ to wound (assuming you cast 'Hammerhand'). Same goes for Ork Nobz in Boyz and other such squad leaders.

[worloch]

I think Staves, while expensive, definitely became a nice option for Pallies. Any DE player will tell you a 2++ in CC can be extremely vexing for your opponent.

 

I'm still torn on Apothecaries - FnP is great, even at 5+, especially now that you still get it against plasma. However, he is a really expensive model for the squad to have.

 

 

I do like the Banner as an upgrade though. The extra attacks can really help increase your offensive output and the auto activate on Force Weapons is nice to have.

[Valerian]

Btw, do people think its hilarious we can challenge with a warding stave now? 2++ will tie up all but the most fighty characters for at least a turn or two, thus completely taking them out of the combat. Also, every time you are challenged, every Paladin can be a valid opponent, as they are all characters. So, depending on what your opponent is (a powerfist TDA Sarge, a powerfist PA Sarge etc), you can choose what to do.

 

Yep, this is the very first thing that I thought of when first reading about Challenges in the new book. Need to add a Warding Stave to my Paladins, and to my GKT now.

 

Valerian

[Reclusiarch Darius]

For Terminators, they should have the Librarian w/stave attached anyway, so he can take challenges and tarpit

[nurglez]

I'll be honest, I'm looking forward to using an attached inquistor in terminator armour with a psycannon and Prescience from the divination (unless I roll something better), rerolling to hit is awesome, and may be my counter to flyers (as I don't really want to add allies or fortifications to my paladin wing).

 

While a warding stave is nice, my 15 paladins are rather nicely commission painted, and "stuck" with what they have (3 hammers, 3 swords, 1 falchion and 8 halberds).

 

I do worry about how I'm going to deal with terminator models, but I have 2 dk's for that (though only 1 in my 1500 point force, and no inquisitor so I may have to play around with it).

 

Being able to accept a challenge on any squad member is great, even without a warding stave (or apothecary, or brotherhood banner). I may well have to assemble some more paladins in the future, depending on how well they do in 6th...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'll be honest, I'm looking forward to using an attached inquistor in terminator armour with a psycannon and Prescience from the divination (unless I roll something better), rerolling to hit is awesome, and may be my counter to flyers (as I don't really want to add allies or fortifications to my paladin wing).

 

Don't forget the free nemesis hammer he gets with his TDA :D saves you having to take additional hammers on your squad to counter enemy TDA. And yeah, I expect to see a lot of those popping up the near future. A shame the Hereticus and Xenos Inquisitors don't bring anywhere near the same durability or utility.

 

With countering flyers, bring a cheap Aegis line with quad-gun. For enhanced lulz, field a Solodin on the gun to contribute his BS4. For even greater hilarity, do the same but with a Vindicare Assassin ^_^ . Psycannons on 6's, especially with only 24" range, are going to be quite chancy (even with re-rolls). Plus, its one flyer absorbing your PaladinStar dakka, which is quite inefficient.

[skarn]

Speaking of pallies, are people more likely to deepstrike them now the mishap isnt so bad? I know that you can't deepstrike all of them due to the 50% deploy rule :P . Do Hqs count as units for this 50% limit?