Hadron Ka'sel Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Hello brothers. Since i joined the forum i haven't posted much, or been on much. But with the advent of 6th ed i have been coaxed back away from our fantasy counter part (been building up an army at the same time as my brother) but i digress! So i have returned back to my first love the Blood Angels and the succesor chapter i have been working on physically and fluff wise. Now before i say this next bit i want to make it clear i am not in any way trying to reboot the debate over dantes weapon or that of our glaives, i just want to give context to my decision and question. So after much discussion with my brother and others, and after reading through the rules and thread from the other day i have ended concluding that sadly the glaives fall under the catagory of being ap3 power weapons because they are master crafted (which is a special rule which would mean it is covered by the rules, at least thats how i see it now) as well as being two handed. Anyway my point is that i was saddened by this because i was toying with the idea of arming them with lances and popping them with a priest and Dante. So instead im switching back to honour guard as they can take lances. So. Heres my question. Lances do look interesting but just how dangerous and viable do people think they will be when coupled with Dantes hit and run? As well as maybe a chaplain with a jump pack? I've yet to play test them and wanted to see what you guys think of this new type of power weapon. Also on a related and side note can anyone remember the wording of the blood champions war gear? i havnt got the codex with me and cant remember whether it says "power weapon" or specifically states "power sword" Finally sorry if a similar post has come up recently. Like i said I'm still kind of new to this wonderful place :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'd be careful about putting lances on anything right now as I suspect GW had something special in mind for those. I don't think it's going to be an option available to everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The champ gets a power weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Now that you mentioned Hit & Run, has it changed? What Initiative is used, Dante's or the Squad's? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Ka'sel Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 But with the rules as they currently are they would have to F.A.Q it wouldnt they? As it stands (and correct me if im wrong here,this is off the top of my head) As it currently says in the rules wysiwyg if the wargear is stated as being a power weapon. Or are you thinking that they have them in mind for a unit in a future codex?...... actually thats an interesting thought. Dark Angels and raven wing..... if they are able to give those lances to bikers.............. that would just be evil. Really not sure off the top of my head Vahouth. will have to pop down to gw in lunch break XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Personally I think the rulebook is saying "unless a weapon has a strange effect like Nemessis force weapons etc. just count it as what it is", and where my opponents are concerned this is how we will be playing it untill FAQ'd otherwize, were also inclined to use a bit of common sense with some of the special weapons too e.g. asteroths axe is an axe because, its called the executioners axe, looks like an axe and is infact an axe!. However I do apreciate the RAW is not that simple and with larger less closely knit playgroups its going to be an issue so I wont derail this thread any further save to say if you really want spear toting sanguinary guard your opponent would have to be rather unreasonable to refuse it, spears being as neatly ballanced a tradeoff as they are. However, I dont think the extra +1s ontop of furious charge is worth risking being lumbered with just ap4 if your charged or fail to hit & run and without the 2+saves of sanguard, honourguard seem like they will take a pasting in return as they are still I4 (+1I from furious charge would have made all the difference there if we still got it!). Dante's hit and run is nice but that makes them over 400pts (nearly 5 with priest) and for that kind of outlay you really need to be sure they are going to perform in most games, which to me means being prepared to last more than one round of combat and unfortunately vs anything with lots of ap3 they are going to fold quickly (and a 400pt deathstar isn't much good if it cant take a power weapon or two back). Sanguinary guard with a permissive opponent or FAQ ruling seems like the only way it might be worthwhile, and it might even work pretty well but I'd suggest proxying them in a game or two if you can, or failing that fight some mock close combats vs various kinds of opponents and see how it seems to do vs swords or axes etc. 6th ed is only 2/3 days old afterall... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 6th ed is only 2/3 days old afterall... Exactly, and the first FAQs were full of holes anyway. I would wait for more updates on those or the first two 6th dexes to hit the shelves before I start any extensive conversion work on things that might turn out illegal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Ka'sel Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 True, they will be alot more squishy than the Sang guard. But you're forgetting that the hon guard comes with a novitiate. I think the one thing that will clinch it is going to be how easily you can get the hit and run off. Stupidly i cant remember how its stated in the new rules :S Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 For an existing non-biker model with a spear (which uses the rules for a lance, page 61), see the Eldar Dire Avenger Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmershield upgrade. The model carries a spear, exactly the weapon pictured on page 59 as 'Eldar power spear' and that's how I'd play it as per the rules. If the Eldar can model on a spear for their 'Sergeants' and use them, why wouldn't Space Marines be able to? Following the WYSIWYG rule for power weapon types, I'd say go for it. Spears are uber fluffy for Avenging Angels as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Ka'sel Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 For an existing non-biker model with a spear (which uses the rules for a lance, page 61), see the Eldar Dire Avenger Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmershield upgrade. The model carries a spear, exactly the weapon pictured on page 59 as 'Eldar power spear' and that's how I'd play it as per the rules. If the Eldar can model on a spear for their 'Sergeants' and use them, why wouldn't Space Marines be able to? Following the WYSIWYG rule for power weapon types, I'd say go for it. Spears are uber fluffy for Avenging Angels as well. That's exactly why I'm interested in them. Fluffy indeed, and at a glance they look like they would work well with hit and run. In regards to wysisyg only time will tell on that front. I think in regards to survivability when I run this hon guard I'm going to stick a couple of ss in. They can go either side oof dante like his personal guard :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3106956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
benation Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Sounds really cool, I'd love to model some Honour guard with the Sanguinary jet packs (wings) and some of the Armorcast jet pack exhaust effects so that they're flying parallel to the ground with lances in one hand... win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3107033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The rules for spears in 40k are now the same as rules for spears in Wahammer Fantasy, and everyone can take spears in Warhammer Fantasy. 40k 6 has a lot of obvious inspiration from Warhammer 8. I don't expect spears will ever receive any "special" exclusions. Why would they? The profile is perfectly balanced with the others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255370-dante-and-hon-guard-6th-ed/#findComment-3107596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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