Land Raiders in 6th Edition

[Haakon Ironheart]

I have not got the chance to fully read the rulebook yet but from what I see in the forums LRs seem to go out of favor. From the little knowledge I have on the new rules, I think LRs are still viable. Granted, we should use them a bit differently and going vs. Necrons would be a nightmare but still I think they are indeed worth a try... What do you think my wolfbrothers?

[CainTheHunter]

For me it will continue to stay on the shelf and I'd rather take a Vendetta.

[Chodjinn]

For me it will continue to stay on the shelf and I'd rather take a Vendetta.

 

For those of use who don't use allies, the question still stands. Are Raiders worth it? I hope so, because I've just ordered my second ....

[Blacksad]

I've never known them to be worth the points actualy... got 4 myself, but don't think they'll see use outside of Apoc battles

[Rik84]

just have a techmarine stood in side to repair the hull points

[Wolfsbane]

Yes, as I have personal gripes with hull points it finally makes Iron Priests useful outside of the "cheap man's" TWC. Having an Iron Priest following armor either on bike or TW can make any piece of armor really annoying to your opponent. I would say that a land raider supported by an Iron Priest is going to become a very powerful strategy. Having 4 hull points is nice, having AV 14 means less glances and pens. Giving your Iron Priest time to repair one of the lost hull points.

 

If you try to play a Land Raider like you did in 5e it's going to be a point sink. If you try out new strategies they are well worth their points. Also a Land Raider moving 18" on the first round is pretty damn amazing if you ask me. It pretty much guarantees turn two assaults.

[L30n1d4s]

Land Raider purely by themselves may have gotten a bit more fragile (S8 Missile Launchers can now potentially glance them to death by kill all their Hull Points), but I think 6th has also given them some real advantages:

 

1 - When it does sustain a Penetrating hit, a LR has only a 1/6 chance of being destroyed now, unless the weapon attacking it is AP2 (then it has a 1/3 chance of being destroyed) or AP1 (1/2 chance of being destroyed). This means meltas and Railguns are more deadly than ever to Land Raiders, but most other weapons are actually less likely to destroy a Land Raider on a Penetrating Hit.

 

2 - Snap Shots - Between "Power of the Machine Spirit" and Snap Shot, Land Raiders can now move 6", fire two weapons at full BS, and fire their remaining weapons at BS1, giving them more potential firepower than before. While not a major boost, it still is better than in 5th edition in terms of potential firepower on the move.

 

3 - Flat Out - Perhaps the most important change for Land Raiders, they can now move an additional 6" during the Shooting phase in place of shooting. This means that a Land Raider starting at the edge of your deployment zone 12" from the board edge can move 18" turn 1, putting it within 6" of the enemy deployment zone and easy charge range for its embarked troops on turn 2. Getting a specialist combat unit safely into assault is a big deal, especially given how shooting has gotten a buff in 6th edition, and Land Raiders are one of the only highly durable assault vehicles that can do this reliably.

 

4 - Supporting Elements - Now that Iron Priests can repair Hull Points, putting an IP with 3 Servitors and Saga of the Iron Wolf in a Land Raider guarantees that the Iron Priest can either repair a weapon destroyed or immobilized or a lost hull point. Unless up against melta or railguns, this can make a Land Raider almost impossible to bring down. Additinally, new Pyschic powers that Rune Priests can use like Forewarning (4++ save on target unit) or Telekine Dome (5++ save that reflects successdul attacks back at enemy units within 6") can make the Land Raider much more reseilient, even againt Melta weapons.

 

5 - Terminators - Now that Power Weapons are down to AP2 (for most of them, anyways), Terminators take on a whole new importance. Since SWs get such cheap access to Wolf Guard Terminators and Land Raiders and Drop Pods are the only way to transport them, Land Raiders have greater importance in getting those Wolf Guard into the fight.

[Haakon Ironheart]

Land Raider purely by themselves may have gotten a bit more fragile (S8 Missile Launchers can now potentially glance them to death by kill all their Hull Points), but I think 6th has also given them some real advantages:

 

1 - When it does sustain a Penetrating hit, a LR has only a 1/6 chance of being destroyed now, unless the weapon attacking it is AP2 (then it has a 1/3 chance of being destroyed) or AP1 (1/2 chance of being destroyed). This means meltas and Railguns are more deadly than ever to Land Raiders, but most other weapons are actually less likely to destroy a Land Raider on a Penetrating Hit.

 

2 - Snap Shots - Between "Power of the Machine Spirit" and Snap Shot, Land Raiders can now move 6", fire two weapons at full BS, and fire their remaining weapons at BS1, giving them more potential firepower than before. While not a major boost, it still is better than in 5th edition in terms of potential firepower on the move.

 

3 - Flat Out - Perhaps the most important change for Land Raiders, they can now move an additional 6" during the Shooting phase in place of shooting. This means that a Land Raider starting at the edge of your deployment zone 12" from the board edge can move 18" turn 1, putting it within 6" of the enemy deployment zone and easy charge range for its embarked troops on turn 2. Getting a specialist combat unit safely into assault is a big deal, especially given how shooting has gotten a buff in 6th edition, and Land Raiders are one of the only highly durable assault vehicles that can do this reliably.

 

4 - Supporting Elements - Now that Iron Priests can repair Hull Points, putting an IP with 3 Servitors and Saga of the Iron Wolf in a Land Raider guarantees that the Iron Priest can either repair a weapon destroyed or immobilized or a lost hull point. Unless up against melta or railguns, this can make a Land Raider almost impossible to bring down. Additinally, new Pyschic powers that Rune Priests can use like Forewarning (4++ save on target unit) or Telekine Dome (5++ save that reflects successdul attacks back at enemy units within 6") can make the Land Raider much more reseilient, even againt Melta weapons.

 

5 - Terminators - Now that Power Weapons are down to AP2 (for most of them, anyways), Terminators take on a whole new importance. Since SWs get such cheap access to Wolf Guard Terminators and Land Raiders and Drop Pods are the only way to transport them, Land Raiders have greater importance in getting those Wolf Guard into the fight.

 

Nice summary Leonidas...I will certainly try some of your ideas...

[Canis Majoris]

(S8 Missile Launchers can now potentially glance them to death by kill all their Hull Points)then it has a 1/3 chance of being destroyed) or AP1 (1/2 chance of being destroyed).

 

Lol I read that as 58 Missile Launchers...I was like o.0

we talking about a land raider or an Imperator lol

[t4ct1c47]

I don't see the big fuss about hull points on Land Raiders, they are still Armour 14 after all. I've always used Land Raiders as a Terminator taxi anyway. If your opponent can get enough strength 8 weapons targeted on the Land Raider to destroy it in a turn then in most cases its gotten close enough to do its job anyway.

 

With that said, the fact that defensive weapons can no longer be fired in addition to the main weapon does mean you have to waste machine spirit on a Hurricane Bolter, and it also makes paying 10 points for Storm Bolters a bit of a waste too. I'm more concerned about how hull points affect Land Speeders and the rear armour of the other tanks. Both can now be glanced to death by mass strength 4 weapons, which as we all know are quite surplus in the game. I'm glad to see the Storm Talon's 11 armour at least stops this from happening so I guess this goes in their favour when deciding whether to field them or Land Speeders.

 

Edit:

*Apologies, I didn't notice this was Space Wolves section.

[Khine]

4 - Supporting Elements - Now that Iron Priests can repair Hull Points, putting an IP with 3 Servitors and Saga of the Iron Wolf in a Land Raider guarantees that the Iron Priest can either repair a weapon destroyed or immobilized or a lost hull point. Unless up against melta or railguns, this can make a Land Raider almost impossible to bring down. Additinally, new Pyschic powers that Rune Priests can use like Forewarning (4++ save on target unit) or Telekine Dome (5++ save that reflects successdul attacks back at enemy units within 6") can make the Land Raider much more reseilient, even againt Melta weapons.

 

Don't forget a IP with Saga of the iron wolf also gives an extra D3 inch move.

[Marmande]

Stelek makes a pretty good case for Land Raiders in 6th.

[Vantius]

Stelek makes a pretty good case for Land Raiders in 6th.

 

Thanks for the link. Good info.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

You are going to have to watch for Necrons, though. They're instant death on vehicles, especially really expensive Land Raiders, as are haywire weapons.

[Raider]

I fear Landraiders got less usefull in this edition:

 

1. Melta kills Landraiders as easily as before and will likely be more prevalent due to Allies. Units you might see often: Melta bikes and trikes got better. Double Multimelta Speeders. Vendettas got a lot stronger and can only be bought with Imp. troops, so a logical combination is scoring Melta troops in Vendettas.

 

2. Using the Raider for mobile cover is less important because of the 25% cover rules.

 

3. The Raiders firepower is still quite weak for its price.

 

4. If you want to get Terminators into the enemy deployment zone you are way better of using Codex Space Marines as allies: Librarian with Nullzone plus 5 TH/SS Terminators is below 400 points! So with Aegis and Comms you get a rerollable 3+/6 chance to teleport wherever you want by turn two and then can keep moving around with Nullzone.

 

I wont use my Landraider for now.

[chaptermasters]

I like to use my LR out in front acting as cover for 2 Rhinos behind it. If you can still park the right way only, you can ensure only front armour is exposed to most of the board, and the rear armour is exposed on one Rhino.

 

Plus with these rules add a iron priest and you can move LR 21" in one turn (probably enough to get near some cover). Given the hull points i don't think I'll be taking a Land Radier with out an iron priest now, attached to a squad of 8 blood claws and wolf lord ;)

 

Can you pop smoke if you move 21 though?

[Haakon Ironheart]

Iron priest is an elite choise therefore I don't think you can attach him to a squad...and you either move an extra 6" for flat out or you pop up smoke...

[MeatGrinder]

Iron priest is an elite choise therefore I don't think you can attach him to a squad...and you either move an extra 6" for flat out or you pop up smoke...

 

He cannot join squads as he is not an independant character, not because he is an elites choice. But you'd take him with a few Servos and put it inside the raider so it can run around shooting things to bits while being repaired from the inside.

[Valerian]

Iron priest is an elite choise therefore I don't think you can attach him to a squad...and you either move an extra 6" for flat out or you pop up smoke...

 

He cannot join squads as he is not an independant character, not because he is an elites choice. But you'd take him with a few Servos and put it inside the raider so it can run around shooting things to bits while being repaired from the inside.

 

Exactly. This means the Iron Priest can embark to maintain the Land Raider as a gun platform throughout the game, but it wouldn't get to act as a Transport/assault platform. In my opinion the whole point of including the LR is to get your assault force to the right place; that rules out taking the IP along for a ride. He could, I suppose, try to just follow along close behind, but that seems like a waste to me.

 

Valerian

[chaptermasters]

I like to use my LR out in front acting as cover for 2 Rhinos behind it. If you can still park the right way only, you can ensure only front armour is exposed to most of the board, and the rear armour is exposed on one Rhino.

 

Plus with these rules add a iron priest and you can move LR 21" in one turn (probably enough to get near some cover). Given the hull points i don't think I'll be taking a Land Radier with out an iron priest now, attached to a squad of 8 blood claws and wolf lord :D

 

Can you pop smoke if you move 21 though?

 

bugger I've been cheating again. Still not a bad as making the D3 on tempests wrath a D6 :)

[Nadir]

You can't pop smoke when you went flat out, and you saddly can't join RP to BC unit (he is not an IC).

[kenzman]

You can't pop smoke when you went flat out, and you saddly can't join RP to BC unit (he is not an IC).

but... he can take 4 cyberwolves!  T5 and 3 attacks each for the same cost of BC/GH.  If you have a wolfkin saga you get I5 too.   Not a bad assault unit in my book.  Ive been meaning to give this load out a try.   

 

Ironpriest w/ bolter and saga of iron

4 cyberwolves

2 servitors 

in a redeemer w/ melta

 

 

you could add another servitor or put a character in like a wolf priest.  Still lots of good ways to run this load out.

[Terrified Templar]

I would say that the Land Raider still makes a very strong case in 6th edition and I will give two good reasons why (there was a third but I forgot)

 

1: LRs aren't as weak as they seem: So AP1 gives a 2+ bonus to the damage table and AP 2 gives a 1+ bonus so does this equal bad? Well the damage table gives us a 1/6 chance of rolling a destroyed result, the damage table before gave us a 1/3 chance of a destroyed result. With AP1 weapons there is a 1/2 chance that the LR will be destroyed in 6th edition, in 5th edition there was a 1/2 chance that an AP1 weapon would destroy the LR. With an AP2 weapon there is a 1/3 chance of rolling a destroyed result in 6th edition, in 5th edition there was a 1/3 chance of a destroyed result with an AP2 weapon. Nothing has changed except that any weapon AP3 or lower will actually have a HARDER time of destroying our vehicles, sure we lose a hull point but our vehicle is still operational and if it was just a glance we can still act normally. Our LRs are going to die whether its 5th or 6th edition but odds are its going to soak up a lot of punishment before it gives out.

 

2: Assault transports: Except for open topped transports LRs are the only transports you can assault from now. Need to deliver some assault terminators or some other hard hitting unit? The LR is the one for you. It'll get your unit to where it has to go and as long as it does that it has served it's purpose and anything after that is a bonus. Also you got a very good chance of getting into assault, Turn 1 move 12", flat out in the shooting phase for a total of 18", Turn 2 move 6", disembark 6", average distance in assault 7", that's a grand total of 37", something we couldn't do in 5th if my memory serves correctly. And since glances can't affect our movement we have a better chance of reaching our goal.

 

 

It all depends on how you're using your LR, I think the best use of it is as a deliverer for our close combat units since the enemy is going to be hard pressed to take out our all round 14 armour and 4 hull points before we reach their lines. The LR is even better then before as an assault tank in any of its three variants.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Can you attach a Wolf Lord to an Iron Priest and his servitors? Seems like a good way to get a character into combat.

[kenzman]

Can you attach a Wolf Lord to an Iron Priest and his servitors? Seems like a good way to get a character into combat.

yes any IC can join the squad.  Heck put 4 with him!