Alys Dwr Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Let's see where our new Codex will take us - fluff & rules-wise... ;) Indeed! If i said i wasn't excited i would be lying. When GW came up with the idea of our non-codex organisation, i doubt they realised the difficulties it would cause in reconciling the rules and fluff. As long as the codex developer (whoever it may be) has put as much thought into how things should work as we do, i don't think we'll be disappointed. I'm still hopeful for a September/October release. Fingers crossed we won't have much longer to wait for questions to be answered; and for new questions to be asked. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Let's see where our new Codex will take us - fluff & rules-wise... ;) Indeed! If i said i wasn't excited i would be lying. When GW came up with the idea of our non-codex organisation, i doubt they realised the difficulties it would cause in reconciling the rules and fluff. Thing is, I'm not sure the devs would consider there to be any difficulty. In my mind, they have crafted the current codex to work as follows...... Terminator squads can be used in small numbers to support Greenwing or Ravenwing without 1st company command elements, and therefore are elite units. If the 1st company came together to fight as a force in its own right, then Belial would lead them and they would be troops.....the end! ;) I don't think they are particularly interested in a situation in which a significant part of the 1st company fights together without being led by Belial.....they just don't see that as happening, hence there's no option for it. Regarding membership of the DW, I think that they have looked at it as being only active members of the 1st Company get to wear TDA, regardless of whether they have been initiated into the 1st Company and then moved on to Company Command etc. Whether or not that actually makes sense has been a secondary issue to the developers so far! Maybe that'll change? Regarding the, hopefully, imminent codex.....I wish people would stop mentioning it, as I just get more impatient every time someone does! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The other day I was musing (long conmute on the trains have this effect...) Do you guys think it is reasonable to expect the Watchers being made a squad option? Fluffwise, its an "old" character. Ruleswise, it might help in the psych arena. Coolwise...they're awesome ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Do you guys think it is reasonable to expect the Watchers being made a squad option? I prefer they remain an unseen aspect of the lore, barring Azrael's classic helmet bearer, as it keeps them that much more unique... I wouldn't mind attaching one as a sort of "familar" to Company Captains or higher ranked individuals, maybe increasing the 'Deny the Witch' save to a 5+? But, mostly, I'd like them left unseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Heh! Rather like Orks and their ammo runts, we could have psyker runts.......it would certainly be a fun and interesting way to fluff up the army list! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I don't think they are particularly interested in a situation in which a significant part of the 1st company fights together without being led by Belial.....they just don't see that as happening, hence there's no option for it. But how about the 5th company fighting under it's own Master that is donned in TDA? The current Codex does not cover this eventuality. Regarding membership of the DW, I think that they have looked at it as being only active members of the 1st Company get to wear TDA, regardless of whether they have been initiated into the 1st Company and then moved on to Company Command etc. Whether or not that actually makes sense has been a secondary issue to the developers so far! Maybe that'll change? I agree that it doesn't make much sense fluff-wise... Are the Int. Chaplains active members of the 1st Company? Are Lbrarians? One might argue that Chaplains and Librarians are "special" but surely the 8 Company Masters are "special" too. Especially when considering that they all have other duties apart from leading a Company (as if this is not "special" enough) such as Master of the Fleet and such not to mention the other less straight forward titles! I do hope the TDA is reinstated as legit wargear for the Company Masters - if only as a status symbol... :D Regarding the, hopefully, imminent codex.....I wish people would stop mentioning it, as I just get more impatient every time someone does! :P I think latest rumors place it probably in early January 2013?... :( I might got it wrong though. Do you guys think it is reasonable to expect the Watchers being made a squad option? I prefer they remain an unseen aspect of the lore, barring Azrael's classic helmet bearer, as it keeps them that much more unique... I wouldn't mind attaching one as a sort of "familar" to Company Captains or higher ranked individuals, maybe increasing the 'Deny the Witch' save to a 5+? But, mostly, I'd like them left unseen. I'm with Ajax on that. One of them is cool, mysterious and intriguing. Put 10 of them together you have the (comedic) Jawa effect! :P Of course this is purely subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think latest rumors place it probably in early January 2013?... :P I might got it wrong though.) I'd heard that too :D - other rumours point sooner but are probably unrealistically optimistic. We might be surprised though :P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I don't think they are particularly interested in a situation in which a significant part of the 1st company fights together without being led by Belial.....they just don't see that as happening, hence there's no option for it. But how about the 5th company fighting under it's own Master that is donned in TDA? The current Codex does not cover this eventuality. Thats what my point was since he is a member of the deathwing (all masters are) he can request or already has in/from the armory a suit dedicated to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviar Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 And as for the chinese leaked thingy...what stat change are we talking about? +1WS? thats not a huge difference... iirc it was that the bikes had 2 base attacks...... If this becomes reality, I would consider bying the box. When it comes to our awaited Codex, GW usually realease the starter box a month after the rulebook. And with the starter comes a Codex. Usually the Codex realese order is PA, non-PA, PA. We are fairly certain that the DA and CSM is in the starter box. So if the first Codex is CSM we may have to wait a while as the Eldar or Tau(non-PA) is inbetween. And if they go with BT(oldest Codex) after that, that would put us on hold for a while longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tancred Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 And as for the chinese leaked thingy...what stat change are we talking about? +1WS? thats not a huge difference... iirc it was that the bikes had 2 base attacks...... If this becomes reality, I would consider bying the box. When it comes to our awaited Codex, GW usually realease the starter box a month after the rulebook. And with the starter comes a Codex. Usually the Codex realese order is PA, non-PA, PA. We are fairly certain that the DA and CSM is in the starter box. So if the first Codex is CSM we may have to wait a while as the Eldar or Tau(non-PA) is inbetween. And if they go with BT(oldest Codex) after that, that would put us on hold for a while longer. But surely if the reference sheets says that RW get two attacks then our codex needs to come out sooner rather than later to support this change. That is my wishful thinking anyway :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 As far as the dual codex release , it could be like they did with demons. They could be lining up WFB/40K chaos. It would give a few core choices that are the same between the two, with some specific to each game. This would also give more audience to this new chaos dragon that is rumored fo 40K. I have trouble accepting that it wouldn't be in the WFB chaos book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I had picked up that the Warriors of Chaos book and Chaos Legions codex would be released Simultaneously in a single month of huge releases. The next real codex after that would be Dark Angel late in the year with a BT WD dex during the month of the next fantasy releases. Take from that what you will. I added salt to my portion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I had picked up that the Warriors of Chaos book and Chaos Legions codex would be released Simultaneously in a single month of huge releases. The next real codex after that would be Dark Angel late in the year with a BT WD dex during the month of the next fantasy releases. Take from that what you will. I added salt to my portion WD? That will make them 2 with the sister one, dunno seems a bit unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Warseer says Chaos+Daemons in August, Starter in September, and Dark Angels in October, which would make the November/December WD Templar dex with two box release plausible if WoC are coming at Christmas. I like that rumor best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Chaos and deamons as two different codices or a single one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Didn't specify, but a Simultaneous release of two codexes is unheard of, but makes sense for Chaos. Since the sales generated if they released both simultaneously given the cross compatibilty would be the perfect test bed for a new codex release style. The sales information generated alone would be enough to warrant a loss of sales later by not releasing a Daemon codex down the road. The gap could be filled by a real Templar release in another two years or a Codex Marines redux at some point. Right now with Dark Angels and Chaos pretty much confirmed (and if the Daemons dual release is true) that leaves only Templars, Tau, Eldar, and Sisters of Battle waiting on full codex releases with new models. Thats one/two years of Codex releases. Given Codex Space Marines will be redone shortly and if the backlash against the Tyranids forces a new release, then Games Workshop could put out 3 codexes a year for the next two years, which seems to be the norm. Also the release of the Hobbit will see the next two years filled with LotR releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a bit skeptical of a new starter set release before the appropriate 'dexes. It just sounds like a bad business decision to sell a starter set for an army with a ... erm... "not imba" codex up against the newest 'dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys Dwr Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a bit skeptical of a new starter set release before the appropriate 'dexes. It just sounds like a bad business decision to sell a starter set for an army with a ... erm... "not imba" codex up against the newest 'dex. But GW decisions don't always make sense. We are rolling with 6th edition now but you can still buy the 5th edition starter set with the 5th edition rules in it. And this simple fact proves a point - the starter set is a stand alone game with all the rules required to play with the models included in the box. The rules in the box do not have to mirror any existing codex and are far from complete. If GW felt so inclined they could release a starter box with a bunch of units which are completely illegal and unplayable in the full tabletop game, but provided they are balanced for an 'intro to WH40K' it really wouldn't matter. People complaining about how the boosted RW in the box means we must get a new codex before hand to make them legal are missing the trick slightly. And on the previous point of Watchers as a new unit - i blooming well hope not. But with the new psychic rules in effect i can see GW throwing them to us as thralls for librarians to give them an extra power/+1 dice roll/prootection from PoTW etc. I really hope they don't do this. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a bit skeptical of a new starter set release before the appropriate 'dexes. It just sounds like a bad business decision to sell a starter set for an army with a ... erm... "not imba" codex up against the newest 'dex. But that's how GW does it. When 5th was released the Ork codex was from the previous editions (and it wasn't even the last codex in that edition). When they released 8th Edition Warhammer Fantasy (and it was arguably a more fundamental change than even 6th) the starter contained High Elves and Skaven and the High Elves had an army book printed back in 2007 which was four years before the release of the 8th Edition boxed set. GW releases starters without updating all the codices used in it immediately (though Chaos will apparently be out before it and Dark Angel may be out shortly after). I can't see why you would be skeptical of something GW does nearly every edition release (oh yeah, the 'Nid codex for 4th Edition wasn't updated immediately after the starter was released either, they had to update the marines first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 And the marine update is what makes me believe that the timeline been given rumorwise is false. By their reckoning we must wait a year and a half for the new marine dex.When did that happen in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I can't see why you would be skeptical of something GW does nearly every edition release I cannot boast your extensive, exhaustive, ancestral-like experience with gee dubya's market strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Something to consider, that I think the Blood Angels Codex shows, is that you can be Codex Astartes "compliant" without actually having to match the FOC locations of the Codex Space Marines book. I'm really hoping that the developers take this opportunity to give us a niche, even if that has to be "the shooty Marine army" (which I'm hoping doesn't have to be the case), utilizing this concept. For instance, if they did want to make us "the shooty army," they could write fluff that says DA convention when fighting wars is to second additional Devastator units from the 9th Company or even non-utilized squads from Companies currently not deployed, and then push the Devastator entry down to the Troops slot. This is obviously a super simple example, and I'm sure you could easily come up with some more. Edit: However, personally, I'm hoping that they take this opportunity to do something like ret-conning a situation where "from the outside, they look Codex-compliant, but upon true study of the battle tactics and structures utilized by the Dark Angels, the subtle changes to squad configurations can be seen" and then running with it. :teehee: I'm personally not a fan of throwing Deathwing squads down to the Troops slot, but it could be done, however, I think it would be hard to balance (the points costs might need to be raised, which could make thinks wonky in their own right) and it would cheapen Belial some IMO, and what I hope to see, a generic Master of the 1st Company (to represent periods where Belial is not the MotDW or Successor chapters, as well as allowing Belial to actually be a special Unique character). Same reason I wouldn't want to see any movement for Ravenwing troop options. Personally, I cant wait to see how it goes, and I really hope we aren't let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Correct me if i'm wrong but Scouts are in the Elites section right? Shouldn't they be moved to troops section? I mean it's not like they're that special. And granted they might be 'rare' yet at the same time if you're playing the 10th (?) company they're the norm. I'd rather see em as troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Tlamunus Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Correct me if i'm wrong but Scouts are in the Elites section right? Shouldn't they be moved to troops section? I mean it's not like they're that special. And granted they might be 'rare' yet at the same time if you're playing the 10th (?) company they're the norm. I'd rather see em as troops. I predict Scouts will be moved to Troops and have their statline bumped down, in a manner simlar to Codex: Space Marines. Dark Angels Scouts have never been implied to be any different than the trainning squads of the standard Chapters. Hopefully, Sgt. Naaman will make a comeback... I'd like to see the Dark Angels rassert themselves as the "secretive elites" chapter. Let us play with some of those 9,900 year old toys the other chapters don't have: Mortis Dreadnoughts and Contemptors; rare Land Raider variants, like the Ares, Prometheus, and Hyperios; Elite Ravenwing Scouts on foot; and, of course, masse quantities of Tactical Dreadnought Armor. Make us the chapter with the best toybox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Elite Ravenwing Scouts on foot This is a terrible idea, not least because its completely at odds with how the Ravenwing has always been potrayed. i.e. exclusively mounted, never deployed on foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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