Sternguard armies in 6th Edition

[Cmdr Shepard]

Greetings Battle Brothers,

 

During 5th Edition I built a typical sternguard army (Kantor, Sternguard units and scouts as troops) to represent a Death Watch detatchment.

Since I spent a lot of time building the army, I bought FW alterante armors, added the DW shoulder pads with various chapters' icons etc, I wonder if it may still be competitive in 6th edition; with the required modifications of course ;)

I plan to add three Stormtalons, for example.

 

Do you have any suggestion?

Thanks for your assistance, Battle Brothers

[Raphiel]

Sternguard squads are certainly still viable in 6th. Which is a good thing, because I absolutely love Sternguards.

 

The new rapid fire rule benefits Sternguard and their special issue ammo bolters.

But, above all, the Heavy Flamer is a formidable weapon to be used in overwatch. I'd almost go as far and say that a heavy flamer is pretty much a must have in every Sternguard squad.

 

I for one am planning on expanding my current Sternguard squad of 6 in a Razorback to two squads of ~8 in a Drop pod, both squads armed with a heavy flamer.

[awfulawful]

Completely agree with Raphiel.

 

My 5th Ed. Pedro list was Scouts and Sternguard. The Scouts part has been severely changed with the loss of first turn assaults, but I'm just thinking MORE STERNGUARD now.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Sternguard squads are certainly still viable in 6th. Which is a good thing, because I absolutely love Sternguards.

 

The new rapid fire rule benefits Sternguard and their special issue ammo bolters.

But, above all, the Heavy Flamer is a formidable weapon to be used in overwatch. I'd almost go as far and say that a heavy flamer is pretty much a must have in every Sternguard squad.

 

I for one am planning on expanding my current Sternguard squad of 6 in a Razorback to two squads of ~8 in a Drop pod, both squads armed with a heavy flamer.

 

Good point. My Sternguard were equiped with several combi-melta, meltagun and Sergeant with power fist.

1. I'm thinking to cut the "blades" from unused claws, glue them to power fist and turn fist into claws.

2. Do you think to just add a single heavy flamer or changing the meltagun with an heavy flamer for a total of 2 heavy flamers?

3. In 5th edition I played them both in rhinos and drop pods. Since vehicles seem to have a short life in 6th Edition maybe pods are better option since you bring them when you want them to be ;)

 

I was even thinking to add a Ravenguard allied detatchemnt at 2000pts, so I can have a good amount of fast moving melta for dealing with vehicles or MC.

I believe adding Stormtalons won't hurt.

 

Do you still suggest scouts as troops choices? or should I go with tac squads?

[Kierdale]

Most definitely a good choice, I would say. I too will be expanding my Sternguard squad when I can afford to. Heavy flamers and some combi-flamers makes for a punishing bit of overwatch if they're charged.

[DerekLee688]

They have two things going for them. The extra amount of dakka they can produce with snap fire, moving rapid fire, and overwatch; or the high amount of melta shots they can put out(for one turn). No more survivable, but alot more deadly when taking charges, like they always were. I like them more now that you can prolong taking that charge with the ability to rapidfire at full range after moving backwards.

 

They are probably the best all rounder unit in the C:SM.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Thanks for your suggestions Battle Brother? ;)

 

Do you think I should favour sternguard only and field as much as I can or could I add a durable unit like Tactical Terminators?

 

I have still to make calculations and see what units I can include.

 

Anyway, in an army like that how many stormtalons do you suggest to field?

[ak-73]

They have two things going for them. The extra amount of dakka they can produce with snap fire, moving rapid fire, and overwatch; or the high amount of melta shots they can put out(for one turn). No more survivable, but alot more deadly when taking charges, like they always were. I like them more now that you can prolong taking that charge with the ability to rapidfire at full range after moving backwards.

 

They are probably the best all rounder unit in the C:SM.

 

Yeah and guess what that means? Boy, they'll be fire magnets. Sternguards just moved up the priority list for the enemy. I'm fine with that because they should scare the enemy player.

 

My recommendation (as an armchair general for the time being): Deploy on foot, preferrably in a ruin. Block LOS with their rhino to enemies you don't want LOS with. Deploy a squad of Tactical Terminators nearby to discourage some types of would-be chargers even further. It's gonna be a deadly combo against enemy infantry.

 

Alex

[Koremu]

They have two things going for them. The extra amount of dakka they can produce with snap fire, moving rapid fire, and overwatch; or the high amount of melta shots they can put out(for one turn). No more survivable, but alot more deadly when taking charges, like they always were. I like them more now that you can prolong taking that charge with the ability to rapidfire at full range after moving backwards.

 

They are probably the best all rounder unit in the C:SM.

 

Yeah and guess what that means? Boy, they'll be fire magnets. Sternguards just moved up the priority list for the enemy. I'm fine with that because they should scare the enemy player.

 

My recommendation (as an armchair general for the time being): Deploy on foot, preferrably in a ruin. Block LOS with their rhino to enemies you don't want LOS with. Deploy a squad of Tactical Terminators nearby to discourage some types of would-be chargers even further. It's gonna be a deadly combo against enemy infantry.

 

Alex

I wasn't aware Sternguard could get any higher on the target priority list.

 

Oh, and the plural of Sternguard is just "Sternguard" - no s (pet hate)

[Raphiel]

Thanks for your suggestions Battle Brother? :P

 

Do you think I should favour sternguard only and field as much as I can or could I add a durable unit like Tactical Terminators?

 

I have still to make calculations and see what units I can include.

 

Anyway, in an army like that how many stormtalons do you suggest to field?

 

Sternguard and Tactical Terminators work great together, but you might have an overkill of bolter shots. However, with 6th edition all this anti-infantry firepower might be exactly what you'll need. Time will tell I guess.

On a sidenote, I think you can never go wrong with a unit of Tactical Terminators. Even in 5th edition, when everyone (read: interwebz) was going nuts about the unlimited awesomeness of Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers, I always thought Tactical Terminators were way underestimated. They are one of the most versatile units available in C:SM.

 

If I remember correctly, you're planning on including 3 Stormtalons right? Personally, I think that is a bit of a waste of FA slots. I always find myself lacking extra FA slots, because there are so many great units to choose from. If you want to go heavy on Stormtalons, I'd suggest 2 Stormtalons and a squadron of Landspeeders (Typhoons, or possibly Tornado with Assault Cannons) or a squadron of Attack Bikes. Bikes have gained some serious advantages now with 6th edition!

[Cmdr Shepard]

Thanks for your suggestions Battle Brother? <_<

 

Do you think I should favour sternguard only and field as much as I can or could I add a durable unit like Tactical Terminators?

 

I have still to make calculations and see what units I can include.

 

Anyway, in an army like that how many stormtalons do you suggest to field?

 

Sternguard and Tactical Terminators work great together, but you might have an overkill of bolter shots. However, with 6th edition all this anti-infantry firepower might be exactly what you'll need. Time will tell I guess.

On a sidenote, I think you can never go wrong with a unit of Tactical Terminators. Even in 5th edition, when everyone (read: interwebz) was going nuts about the unlimited awesomeness of Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers, I always thought Tactical Terminators were way underestimated. They are one of the most versatile units available in C:SM.

 

If I remember correctly, you're planning on including 3 Stormtalons right? Personally, I think that is a bit of a waste of FA slots. I always find myself lacking extra FA slots, because there are so many great units to choose from. If you want to go heavy on Stormtalons, I'd suggest 2 Stormtalons and a squadron of Landspeeders (Typhoons, or possibly Tornado with Assault Cannons) or a squadron of Attack Bikes. Bikes have gained some serious advantages now with 6th edition!

 

I agree about Tactical Terminators. Even in 5th Edition I considered them much more versatile than Thunder Hammer TDA. I thought in 6th all this anti-infantry fire power may be useful :cry:

I plan to add some bikes via Dark Angels allies. Sammael and a squad of Raven Wing bike to deliver mobil melta, if needed. I shouldn't be above 500 pts if I'm not mistake.

Landspeeders were already included in my 5th edition "sterngaurd army" so they may return for 6th.

How many vehicles do you suggest for the squadron? Or I could even field an additional squad of bikers. If so I'll be able to field more than 10 bikes (including the allied DA)... it may be interesting.

 

Just a quick question: Since DA and SM are brothers in arms can my Tactical Terminators use the Raven Wing's bikes' Teleport homer?

It may be a very interesting tactic...

[DarkGuard]

Sternguard look like they're going to stay. As others have said the changes to rapid fire weapons help them out, while heavy flamers got nastier with overwatch. I'll keep fielding my one, I'm just trying to decide whether they'll be in a Rhino or on foot. On the one hand they get into rapid fire range quicker, and are protected until they get there. On the other hand they can impact the game straight away, but are more vulnerable.

 

Of course, it's less of an issue if their ride gets taken out now.

[LoreDraconis]

I'd give them the box. Their weakness is their vulnerability. However, there is something to be careful of. Crew stunned results will prevent your troops from shooting, even if they disembark. I think it might still be slightly up for debate but the rulebook seems pretty clear on it.

 

Something that could cause some lols: 8x combi-flamers, 2x heavy flamers vs orcs of tyranids.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4Ss6Nf48zEc/TeH_MKWmfFI/AAAAAAAABdU/xK-wIqqMHlY/s1600/come%20at%20me%20anteater.jpg

[Cmdr Shepard]

I tried to write a list and I have to say I encountered problems in keeping it within 2000 pts, especially with DA bikers as allies.

 

How many sterguard units do you suggest? I believe the power fist on the sergeant will be less madatory than in 5th edition. However I wonder if the sergeant needs a special weapon like power sword or claws.

Currently I'm sure only about HQ: Kantor, of course ;)

Once I decide the number and the equipement of sterguard I'll put other units in the army. Scouts as Troops seem a good choice.

 

I thinking about 2x8 men sternguard units each with:

1 meltagun (perhaps + 1heavy flamer), and a number of combi melta/combi flamer. Given the cost for each combi weapon I could give the squad 3 combi melta and 3 combi flamer. I have still do decide the segeant "special weapon", if needed. 245 pts without sergeant's special weapon...

[DarkGuard]

With challenges it looks like power fists will be less useful, as they can easily be cut down by a power weapon. Therefore, the lightning claw/MB combo will probably be more useful on Sternguard, giving strikes at I4 against infantry, handy when in challenge, while the meltabomb will help deal with MCs and tanks.

 

Of course, if going this route then Terminators will be a problem.

 

I like the look of that Sternguard unit, seems nicely balanced, can take out near anything, and the combi-flamers alongside the heavy flamer gives it good overwatch abilities, always vital on a unit that will be so close to the front line.

[Cmdr Shepard]

With challenges it looks like power fists will be less useful, as they can easily be cut down by a power weapon. Therefore, the lightning claw/MB combo will probably be more useful on Sternguard, giving strikes at I4 against infantry, handy when in challenge, while the meltabomb will help deal with MCs and tanks.

 

Of course, if going this route then Terminators will be a problem.

 

I like the look of that Sternguard unit, seems nicely balanced, can take out near anything, and the combi-flamers alongside the heavy flamer gives it good overwatch abilities, always vital on a unit that will be so close to the front line.

Now I have to decide if putting them in a Transport. Maybe a Drop Pod?

 

Anyway Terminators will be a problem if my sternguard will encounter them or will be a problem finding the points to put them in the army? :lol:

I ask because when I tried to add a 10 men squad in my list I went beyond 2000 pts quickly... Perhaps I should reconsider the "allied detachment".

 

Do you think 5 men scout units are too small? Is a 10 scouts units preferable?

[ak-73]

In 5E I liked 6 men Scouts, which was enough to threaten/bind enemy backfield units or enemy skirmishers. For Sternguard 6 to 8 usually was enough. Running 7 Sternguard with scores of combi-meltas and -flamers was a scary enough sight for the enemy general.

 

Alex

[Cmdr Shepard]

In 5E I liked 6 men Scouts, which was enough to threaten/bind enemy backfield units or enemy skirmishers. For Sternguard 6 to 8 usually was enough. Running 7 Sternguard with scores of combi-meltas and -flamers was a scary enough sight for the enemy general.

 

Alex

Honestly I doubt enemy will concentrate fire on the scout when they have more pressing issues moving towards them, so 5/6 men scout unit may be ok. However if the unit is holding an objective it will become a prioritary target. Maybe a 10 men unit with camo cloaks will be very survivable. This will nearly double their cost, though.

[DarkGuard]

Well the enemy will target Scouts if they're sitting on an objective. That's always a scary thing for Scouts to do.

 

But I do agree with ak-73's unit size suggestions, especially with Sternguard. 10 men is a lot of points and I don't think you gain enough in those last two boltgun shots to warrant those points spent. Also, if you're worried about Terminators, combi-plasma would be the way to go. With mech generally being a little weaker thanks to HPs, and combat weapons no longer instantly cutting through Terminators armour, plasma in general just got better, and that applies to Sternguard.

 

And of course, hellfire rounds will continue to do the trick.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Well the enemy will target Scouts if they're sitting on an objective. That's always a scary thing for Scouts to do.

 

But I do agree with ak-73's unit size suggestions, especially with Sternguard. 10 men is a lot of points and I don't think you gain enough in those last two boltgun shots to warrant those points spent. Also, if you're worried about Terminators, combi-plasma would be the way to go. With mech generally being a little weaker thanks to HPs, and combat weapons no longer instantly cutting through Terminators armour, plasma in general just got better, and that applies to Sternguard.

 

And of course, hellfire rounds will continue to do the trick.

So can 2x 5 men scouts with sniper rifles, camo cloaks and a ML s be the best choice for the 2 mandatory troops choices? Sternguard is scoring too thanks to Kantor's special rule.

I'm thinking to add a Tactical Terminator squad, I have to make calculations :cuss

[ak-73]

In 5E I liked 6 men Scouts, which was enough to threaten/bind enemy backfield units or enemy skirmishers. For Sternguard 6 to 8 usually was enough. Running 7 Sternguard with scores of combi-meltas and -flamers was a scary enough sight for the enemy general.

 

Alex

Honestly I doubt enemy will concentrate fire on the scout when they have more pressing issues moving towards them, so 5/6 men scout unit may be ok. However if the unit is holding an objective it will become a prioritary target. Maybe a 10 men unit with camo cloaks will be very survivable. This will nearly double their cost, though.

 

That is not the point of close quarters scouts. They are a disruption unit. They can interdict enemy movement (placing c-melta/melta bomb scouts into the path of important vehicles) or they can threaten to come in from reserves and entangle enemy backfield units (Devastators, Long Fangs, Burnas, etc.). 7 can get that job done, but 6 is enough to be a threat in combat.

 

Alex

[Cmdr Shepard]

In 5E I liked 6 men Scouts, which was enough to threaten/bind enemy backfield units or enemy skirmishers. For Sternguard 6 to 8 usually was enough. Running 7 Sternguard with scores of combi-meltas and -flamers was a scary enough sight for the enemy general.

 

Alex

Honestly I doubt enemy will concentrate fire on the scout when they have more pressing issues moving towards them, so 5/6 men scout unit may be ok. However if the unit is holding an objective it will become a prioritary target. Maybe a 10 men unit with camo cloaks will be very survivable. This will nearly double their cost, though.

 

That is not the point of close quarters scouts. They are a disruption unit. They can interdict enemy movement (placing c-melta/melta bomb scouts into the path of important vehicles) or they can threaten to come in from reserves and entangle enemy backfield units (Devastators, Long Fangs, Burnas, etc.). 7 can get that job done, but 6 is enough to be a threat in combat.

 

Alex

I was just asking if they could survive and do their job. :)

Anyway the problem is scouts will be 2 of the only 4 available scoring units to my army. That's why I thought about placing them on an objective.

We usually get D3+2 objectives but there is a mission with 6 of them. Sometimes scoring units have to stay on objectives.

I recognize the usefulness of scouts in the role you mentioned but I don't have a lot of scoring units in this type of army. :D

 

EDIT:

In the "prototype list" I made I reached about 1700 with

Kantor

2 Scout squads

2x8 Sternguard squads

1x10 Tactical Terminators

2x Stormtalons

 

I have to include transports for sternguard.

I planned to add Raven Wing allies but I'm running out of points. 10 TDA require a lot of points.

 

What do you suggest to add or change?

[ak-73]

As they say: Hold one objective and deny all others.

 

Alex

[DarkGuard]

As they say: Hold one objective and deny all others.

 

Alex

 

That got harder with the new rules to denial units.

 

In the "prototype list" I made I reached about 1700 with

Kantor

2 Scout squads

2x8 Sternguard squads

1x10 Tactical Terminators

2x Stormtalons

 

I have to include transports for sternguard.

I planned to add Raven Wing allies but I'm running out of points. 10 TDA require a lot of points.

 

What do you suggest to add or change?

 

In this instance, to get the Rhinos, you might want to think about either dropping a couple of Tactical Terminators, although that would mean dropping a second heavy weapon I guess. Or drop the Stormtalons for Typhoons, although that'll mean you lose good AA ability.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I posted a "prototype" list here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=255645

I'd like your opinions, Battle Brothers

 

@DarkGuard: I dropped a Terminator and one Special Weapon in the above list. I hadn't much choice. I gave Sternguard Drop Pods but I don't know if they are preferable to rhinos. What do you think? (I have models for both of them so it's just a tactical choice) :)